The Jordan Love Thread

[Heyjoe4]

While that might be true they would be wrong about it just like too many posters around here.



Yeah, while I live in a city (Graz) that's larger than any in Wisconsin aside of Milwaukee we still enjoy to banter with folks from Vienna.



I was actually talking about Rodgers obviously not having been in decline the past two seasons.



That's where I disagree. Gutekunst is being paid millions of bucks to correctly evaluate the players on the roster. He made a huge mistake in doing so with Rodgers after the 2019 season.



I wasn't aware that I needed to ask for your permission to reply to posts in a thread I haven't been able to post in for several days. Here's some advice for you though. If you don't want to read responses to a specific topic just ignore it. There's no reason to take a shot at a poster who, besides giving his opinion on a topic, posted some facts in his response as well. Especially for a moderator.



That's absolutely hilarious coming from you, especially considering you pumped a thread in which nobody had posted in for more than six years on a player who isn't even with the team anymore just a few days ago.



Once again, you conveniently ignore that the Packers drafting Love was the main reason Rodgers thought about moving on in the first place. In addition people defending the pick can't come up with anything else than "What ifs" to make their point.

Actually all of Wisconsin has more fun kidding with our Chicago neighbors just 90 miles south, especially as it concerns the Bears.

 

[Heyjoe4]

There's a good article in the JS today about Love. The net of it is to just wait for now and see how he progresses in TC and PS. The article does state it's unlikely Love ever plays in GB as long as Rodgers continues to produce (he has two HUGE paydays in 2023 and 2024 - over $100 mil total).

So that's where it probably should be left. No need to debate the selection of Love, that's already been beaten to death. Now we should wait and see what his future looks like.

And actually, I'm a lot more interested in what this GB team can do this year. That's a lot more interesting than Love's status. That said, he'll have a lot of eyes on him in PS, before the real games start.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While that might be true they would be wrong about it just like too many posters around here.

 

[OldSchool101]

Who has mentioned anything about Love having to win a Super Bowl while on his rookie contract? At least one decent start would be somehow promising though.

He’s only had 1 start Captain. You act like he’s started 5 or 9 games and has zero wins. He made his first and only start start against the KC Chiefs in 2021.

Trivia question:
Since the NFL introduced the rookie wage scale how many quarterbacks selected in the first round have thrown less passes than Love over their first two seasons?
Answer:
None out of 39 quarterbacks.

If he’s only thrown 39 passes, how on the world can we properly evaluate his long term projection??

As others have said Non sufficient info. Why would you hold him to the same standard after he’s had the least amount of on-field experience? You just killed your own argument there. Thank You for the help!
I owe you one

Favre was 17-12 in his first two seasons with the Packers. I have no idea why OldSchool included his numbers while with the Falcons during his rookie campaign.

For the same reason you continually discredit Love (you just did it above in the trivia question) and add his Rookie season.
What % of those 39 QB you brought into the argument had a virtual Rookie season??

Gutekunst had signed Rodgers to an extension through the 2023 season in the summer of '18. While it's pretty obvious he didn't expect Love to start during his rookie campaign please enlighten me on how he expected Love to develop while sitting on the bench for most of his rookie contract?

The same way they did with Aaron Rodgers. Believe it or not, I would even go as far as to say that it is preferable to have a Rookie QB sit and learn for a year or two.

You desperately attempt to use todays info to discredit a decision our GM made 2 years ago. That’s the epitome of the definition hindsight and would be completely inadmissible in a debate. At the time of the 2020 draft (not the 2021 KC game!) #12 was in notable and marked decline (2017 injury riddled followed by 2 consecutive seasons of decline 58.0% and 52.5% QB rating in 2018-2019) both were career lows heading south
What was Gute supposed to do? Wait until #12 hit below a 50% QB rating? Then wait another year to develop a QB??

Brian Gutenkunst 100% made the correct move for a prudent GM. Ignoring a declining QB is kiss of death #1 for a short GM career

 

[Heyjoe4]

He’s only had 1 start Captain. You act like he’s started 5 or 9 games and has zero wins. He made his first and only start start against the KC Chiefs in 2021.

If he’s only thrown 39 passes, how on the world can we properly evaluate his long term projection??

As others have said Non sufficient info. Why would you hold him to the same standard after he’s had the least amount of on-field experience? You just killed your own argument there. Thank You for the help!
I owe you one


For the same reason you continually discredit Love (you just did it above in the trivia question) and add his Rookie season.
What % of those 39 QB you brought into the argument had a virtual Rookie season??

The same way they did with Aaron Rodgers. Believe it or not, I would even go as far as to say that it is preferable to have a Rookie QB sit and learn for a year or two.

You desperately attempt to use todays info to discredit a decision our GM made 2 years ago. That’s the epitome of the definition hindsight and would be completely inadmissible in a debate. At the time of the 2020 draft (not the 2021 KC game!) #12 was in notable and marked decline (2017 injury riddled followed by 2 consecutive seasons of decline 58.0% and 52.5% QB rating in 2018-2019) both were career lows heading south
What was Gute supposed to do? Wait until #12 hit below a 50% QB rating? Then wait another year to develop a QB??

Brian Gutenkunst 100% made the correct move for a prudent GM. Ignoring a declining QB is kiss of death #1 for a short GM career

Hey OldShool, were Rodgers' QBRs really 58.0 in 2017 and 52.5 in 2018? We're those complete years, not that it matters that much? Wow I didn't know that was the case. I think his career QBR is just over 100, the highest ever. Anyway if that's the case, yeah that would be cause for concern. I admit I didn't know his QBR had sunk so low for consecutive years.

I'm not changing my mind that it was a wasted pick (and yes, in hindsight). IMO, Rodgers was declining because MM's game plan and management had become so stale. So from my armchair, I would have passed on Love and taken a WR and counted on Rodgers to play better under a new HC.

That doesn't mean that Gluten was wrong. A reasonable person could look at those QBRs and conclude Rodgers was in decline and picking a QB early made sense.

 

[OldSchool101]

Hey OldShool, were Rodgers' QBRs really 58.0 in 2017 and 52.5 in 2018? We're those complete years, not that it matters that much? Wow I didn't know that was the case. I think his career QBR is just over 100, the highest ever. Anyway if that's the case, yeah that would be cause for concern. I admit I didn't know his QBR had sunk so low for consecutive years.
That doesn't mean that Gluten was wrong. A reasonable person could look at those QBRs and conclude Rodgers was in decline and picking a QB early made sense.

Yes.
I think you are comparing to Passer rating, which is currently like 104% over his career.

His QB rating up through his 2017 injury season was a 69.5% average. He followed that with a career low 58.0% in 2018 and then slumped to another career low 52.5% rating in 2019.
2017 injury
2018 record low QB Rating
2019 2nd record low QB rating

Don’t mistake me for saying I wanted a QB. Just Like you, I would’ve liked a WR or another Defender. However I can distinguish my own desires from Gute’s reasoning. Im going to hazard a guess and say Gute would’ve much rather used those 2 draft selections on other players. I think it was Gute’s responsibility to have a plan of attack at QB in case Rodgers couldn’t pull his plane out of a steep downward pitch, just after his Rudder was damaged.

The argument has really never been “is Love a great QB or not?”

The real argument is:

“Was Gute justified in choosing a QB with those 2 draft selections?”

This other stuff about demeaning Jordan Love? It’s largely immaterial to the real debate. That said, had Rodgers declined or continually diminished? Then yes, Love’s performance takes full precedence at a heightened level. That debate is then wide open. Until then, the more we drive on Love’s performance, the more we use hindsight.

 

[rmontro]

Have 2 to 2 to lock

I say keep it open, if we're voting. So what if it's just the same stuff rehashed over and over? If people want to keep talking about it, the site gets more traffic, and the board gets more postings. Shouldn't that make the owner happy?

 

[PikeBadger]

While that might be true they would be wrong about it just like too many posters around here.



Yeah, while I live in a city (Graz) that's larger than any in Wisconsin aside of Milwaukee we still enjoy to banter with folks from Vienna.



I was actually talking about Rodgers obviously not having been in decline the past two seasons.



That's where I disagree. Gutekunst is being paid millions of bucks to correctly evaluate the players on the roster. He made a huge mistake in doing so with Rodgers after the 2019 season.



I wasn't aware that I needed to ask for your permission to reply to posts in a thread I haven't been able to post in for several days. Here's some advice for you though. If you don't want to read responses to a specific topic just ignore it. There's no reason to take a shot at a poster who, besides giving his opinion on a topic, posted some facts in his response as well. Especially for a moderator.



That's absolutely hilarious coming from you, especially considering you pumped a thread in which nobody had posted in for more than six years on a player who isn't even with the team anymore just a few days ago.



Once again, you conveniently ignore that the Packers drafting Love was the main reason Rodgers thought about moving on in the first place. In addition people defending the pick can't come up with anything else than "What ifs" to make their point.

Only 3 scrolled pages. You're improvement is commendable

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes.
I think you are comparing to Passer rating, which is currently like 104% over his career.

His QB rating up through his 2017 injury season was a 69.5% average. He followed that with a career low 58.0% in 2018 and then slumped to another career low 52.5% rating in 2019.
2017 injury
2018 record low QB Rating
2019 2nd record low QB rating

Don’t mistake me for saying I wanted a QB. Just Like you, I would’ve liked a WR or another Defender. However I can distinguish my own desires from Gute’s reasoning. Im going to hazard a guess and say Gute would’ve much rather used those 2 draft selections on other players. I think it was Gute’s responsibility to have a plan of attack at QB in case Rodgers couldn’t pull his plane out of a steep downward pitch, just after his Rudder was damaged.

The argument has really never been “is Love a great QB or not?”

The real argument is:

“Was Gute justified in choosing a QB with those 2 draft selections?”

This other stuff about demeaning Jordan Love? It’s largely immaterial to the real debate. That said, had Rodgers declined or continually diminished? Then yes, Love’s performance takes full precedence at a heightened level. That debate is then wide open. Until then, the more we drive on Love’s performance, the more we use hindsight.

Got it OldSchool. I think you mean his completion percentage dropping to 58% and 52%. At any rate, if Rodgers decline continued, Gluten would have been beaten up for not getting a QB. Sometimes, ya can't win!

 

[longtimefan]

what's more likely??


Rodgers was declining in eyes of fo

Rodgers may have said I'm done after 2020??? this is something that I have heard rumblings about ( even tho some here believes I am just blowing smoke)

Front office wanted to get prepared

Rodgers took offense that a qb was drafted .


He decided I'm going to play my best to prove them wrong..it's why he went back and saw why he wasn't as good as he was prior. He admitted he studied old video..

or

Front office said let's move up to get a qb instead of getting help on offense even tho we need wr

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you honestly believe the Packers still consider trading up in the first round of the 2020 draft to select Love was the correct decision??? I highly doubt they're that stubborn.

He’s only had 1 start Captain. You act like he’s started 5 or 9 games and has zero wins. He made his first and only start start against the KC Chiefs in 2021.

If he’s only thrown 39 passes, how on the world can we properly evaluate his long term projection??

As others have said Non sufficient info. Why would you hold him to the same standard after he’s had the least amount of on-field experience? You just killed your own argument there.

You just don't get it. I'm not making any evaluation of Love at all. My point is and has been all along that it was predictable Love won't play enough over his rookie contract for it to make sense to have selected him in the first place. For the record, he ranks 39th out of 39 quarterbacks with a total of 62 pass attempts.

For the same reason you continually discredit Love (you just did it above in the trivia question) and add his Rookie season.
What % of those 39 QB you brought into the argument had a virtual Rookie season??

Burrow, Tugavailoa and Herbert. Yet those numbers don't include Love's rookie season as he wasn't even active once in the 2020 season.

The same way they did with Aaron Rodgers. Believe it or not, I would even go as far as to say that it is preferable to have a Rookie QB sit and learn for a year or two.

You completely ignore that Rodgers found himself in a completely different situation sitting behind Favre as the CBA didn't limit offseason workouts and practice time during the season in a way it does since 2011.

You desperately attempt to use todays info to discredit a decision our GM made 2 years ago. That’s the epitome of the definition hindsight and would be completely inadmissible in a debate. At the time of the 2020 draft (not the 2021 KC game!) #12 was in notable and marked decline (2017 injury riddled followed by 2 consecutive seasons of decline 58.0% and 52.5% QB rating in 2018-2019) both were career lows heading south
What was Gute supposed to do? Wait until #12 hit below a 50% QB rating? Then wait another year to develop a QB??

Brian Gutenkunst 100% made the correct move for a prudent GM. Ignoring a declining QB is kiss of death #1 for a short GM career

For the umpteenth time, I'm not using hindsight to criticize the selection of Love. I was adamant about it being a mistake from the get-go as I didn't consider Rodgers being in a decline. While Gutekunst obviously thought differently it's pretty obvious he was completely wrong about it.

As a side note, a general manager will always be evaluated by using hindsight as there's no way of knowing how moves made actually work out on the field.

Hey OldShool, were Rodgers' QBRs really 58.0 in 2017 and 52.5 in 2018? We're those complete years, not that it matters that much? Wow I didn't know that was the case. I think his career QBR is just over 100, the highest ever. Anyway if that's the case, yeah that would be cause for concern. I admit I didn't know his QBR had sunk so low for consecutive years.

OldSchool is taking about ESPN's QBR (which is explained here: https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo...-calculated-we-explain-our-quarterback-rating), which is a different metric from the traditional passer rating.

Got it OldSchool. I think you mean his completion percentage dropping to 58% and 52%.

As mentioned above, he was talking about Rodgers' QBR rating.

 

[tynimiller]

Do you honestly believe the Packers still consider trading up in the first round of the 2020 draft to select Love was the correct decision??? I highly doubt they're that stubborn.

I know not at me, but here's my .01 cent thought.

I don't think Gute if we got his unfiltered answer now would say it was the correct decision, however that is solely because of factors which are known now which were either in question at the time or assumed to not be the case at the time. So while you might get Gute someday to say or admit hindsight points to that verdict, it still doesn't remove the logic and the valid reasons for the move at the time.

Shoot there are VERY few draft picks that have happened in Gute's reign that hindsight points to them being 100% the correct decision....

Instead of Darnell Savag we could have had Deebo or even Johnathan Abram (ascending better than Savage)....
One could argue instead of Elgton he would now pick DK, McLaurin or AJ Brown...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know not at me, but here's my .01 cent thought.

I don't think Gute if we got his unfiltered answer now would say it was the correct decision, however that is solely because of factors which are known now which were either in question at the time or assumed to not be the case at the time. So while you might get Gute someday to say or admit hindsight points to that verdict, it still doesn't remove the logic and the valid reasons for the move at the time.

Shoot there are VERY few draft picks that have happened in Gute's reign that hindsight points to them being 100% the correct decision....

Instead of Darnell Savag we could have had Deebo or even Johnathan Abram (ascending better than Savage)....
One could argue instead of Elgton he would now pick DK, McLaurin or AJ Brown...

That pretty much sums it up for me. Nobody that I know of, is currently raving about the drafting of Love 2 years after the fact. However, as you and many of us have said over and over, 2 years ago the pick, while it felt a bit premature, had its merits and thus the rationale behind Gute's thought process was easy to see. That hasn't changed, but what has changed, are the unknown (at the time) variables that influenced the decision, are slowly turning the pick into what appears to have been an unnecessary one.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hey, that's A. H!tler's hometown. Is the fuhrer in your family tree?

Come on man, you can be better than that.

 

[Schultz]

Completely out of line. An apology is most appropriate.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Do you honestly believe the Packers still consider trading up in the first round of the 2020 draft to select Love was the correct decision??? I highly doubt they're that stubborn.



You just don't get it. I'm not making any evaluation of Love at all. My point is and has been all along that it was predictable Love won't play enough over his rookie contract for it to make sense to have selected him in the first place. For the record, he ranks 39th out of 39 quarterbacks with a total of 62 pass attempts.



Burrow, Tugavailoa and Herbert. Yet those numbers don't include Love's rookie season as he wasn't even active once in the 2020 season.



You completely ignore that Rodgers found himself in a completely different situation sitting behind Favre as the CBA didn't limit offseason workouts and practice time during the season in a way it does since 2011.



For the umpteenth time, I'm not using hindsight to criticize the selection of Love. I was adamant about it being a mistake from the get-go as I didn't consider Rodgers being in a decline. While Gutekunst obviously thought differently it's pretty obvious he was completely wrong about it.

As a side note, a general manager will always be evaluated by using hindsight as there's no way of knowing how moves made actually work out on the field.



OldSchool is taking about ESPN's QBR (which is explained here: https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo...-calculated-we-explain-our-quarterback-rating), which is a different metric from the traditional passer rating.



That's a new lowlight, even for you. The fact that a personal name is censored around here should have told you it's inappropriate to use it. For a moderator it's actually disgraceful that you went there.

In addition, you better get your facts straight on top of it. ****** wasn't born or raised in Graz, you probably confused him with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

@OldSchool101: In my opinion it's extremely disappointing that you considered that post as funny, especially considering you put that much stock into Christian values.



As mentioned above, he was talking about Rodgers' QBR rating.

Thanks for the clarification on QB ratings. I'm so used to the one they usually use on TV.

And your response to Pike's horrific comment was measured and showed a lot of restraint. Good for you for taking the high road. I usually ignore tasteless comments. But this was so far out of line, it deserved a response. Again, good job.

 

[Mondio]

I think sensitivity meters are a bit touchy these days.

 

[rmontro]

My point is and has been all along that it was predictable Love won't play enough over his rookie contract for it to make sense to have selected him in the first place. For the record, he ranks 39th out of 39 quarterbacks with a total of 62 pass attempts.

Certainly doesn't seem like we did Love any favors by picking him either.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Certainly doesn't seem like we did Love any favors by picking him either.

IMO, Love was/is a victim of a bad draft decision by Gluten. The best thing GB could do for Love now is cut/trade him and let him find a QB gig somewhere.

Some will say we shouldn't cut a backup QB who has been in the system for three years. But he was a first round pick, and deserves a shot at starting. He's not gonna get that in GB, or the odds are not in his favor. Not even close.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

IMO, Love was/is a victim of a bad draft decision by Gluten. The best thing GB could do for Love now is cut/trade him and let him find a QB gig somewhere.

Some will say we shouldn't cut a backup QB who has been in the system for three years. But he was a first round pick, and deserves a shot at starting. He's not gonna get that in GB, or the odds are not in his favor. Not even close.

So cut/trade all the backups? So that they have a shot at starting elsewhere? In the case of Love, who are you replacing him with and how much you paying him?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Heyjoe4]

So cut/trade all the backups? So that they have a shot at starting elsewhere? In the case of Love, who are you replacing him with and how much you paying him?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

No it's just that the guy was drafted in the first round and deserves a chance to start. When Gluten drafted him I'm sure he thought that would happen in a year or two.

The other side of the coin is they're paying him $12 million guaranteed to hold a clip board. Not a bad deal. He won't be cut or traded because he's the only backup they have who knows the system as well as he does. I suppose that's fair. And not to jinx anything, but if Rodgers gets injured, we'll see if Love is a starter. Again, he deserves that chance. (I hope it's not because Rodgers gets injured.)

 

[gopkrs]

I really don't get this talk about cutting/trading Love because he was a 1st round pick. If anything, that would mean waiting and seeing how he comes along. Rodgers is not going to play forever. Right now, it does not seem like there is any big soap opera drama going on. Why would we not wait? It really makes zero sense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I really don't get this talk about cutting/trading Love because he was a 1st round pick. If anything, that would mean waiting and seeing how he comes along. Rodgers is not going to play forever. Right now, it does not seem like there is any big soap opera drama going on. Why would we not wait? It really makes zero sense.

Only a few of those fans that have been screaming that it was a wasted pick, now want Love gone, that way they can close the book on their rant. Cutting or trading him for a late round pick, would be doubling down on that crazy that some believe Gute had by drafting him.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Only a few of those fans that have been screaming that it was a wasted pick, now want Love gone, that way they can close the book on their rant. Cutting or trading him for a late round pick, would be doubling down on that crazy that some believe Gute had by drafting him.

Something tells me Love will get his chance in GB. Rodgers could be here one year or three or four. Who knows with him? Well, Love should be ready under any scenario.

 

[tynimiller]

Trading I get and it holds merit whether I agree or not, cutting is ludacris IMO