The Jordan Love Thread

[gopkrs]

That I agree with that. He’s in a weird environment. It’s like he’s had a curse on him from our fans day 1. We almost wanted him to fail because we wanted Rodgers to stay.

I don't know but I doubt this very much. This board I would maintain, is not a reflection of Packer fans in general. Especially concerning Love. The environment should be ideal for him. No real pressure day to day and I'll bet almost all Packer fans are rooting for him. I think the thought that we should give the guy a break and trade him is hogwash. (not saying you say this) I am really hopeful that he comes out and does well with whatever opportunities he has this year. How long does ARod have? Are we going to hang on too long and miss other opportunities? But I digress. I'm really just interested in this year and we are looking good imho.

 

[OldSchool101]

Hey OldSchool, I'm not surprised that you agree with me on some things. And vice versa. As for Favre's lousy start, it wasn't bad enough (it was pretty bad) that they wanted to replace him, or they didn't think Majkowski was better, or there wasn't anyone better, or Wolf and Holmgren saw the potential. I'd be curious as to what the record was in those first three seasons under Favre. For his whole career, his TD/INT percentage was terrible. But he won a lot of games, and a SB in 97. But clearly, no one replaced him and he's in the HOF.

As far as I know, once Favre replaced an injured Majkowski, Favre didn't relinquish the starting job until he was traded to the Jets. So actually it's the only example of Favre taking a starting job and never letting go.

Oh and I thought Love had three starts. I was corrected. It's only been one. Must be the KC game last year. The guy deserves a chance somewhere, just not in GB where I think the deck is unfairly stacked against him.

That’s fine. It is what it is.
Im just defending a guy who many are making out to be a career failure before this horse hits the first Corner. That’s all. I’d defend you just the same.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't know but I doubt this very much. This board I would maintain, is not a reflection of Packer fans in general. Especially concerning Love. The environment should be ideal for him. No real pressure day to day and I'll bet almost all Packer fans are rooting for him. I think the thought that we should give the guy a break and trade him is hogwash. (not saying you say this) I am really hopeful that he comes out and does well with whatever opportunities he has this year. How long does ARod have? Are we going to hang on too long and miss other opportunities? But I digress. I'm really just interested in this year and we are looking good imho.

Listen. As a Packer fan we should want him to succeed.. it would show that our GM isn’t as dumb as we thought. Also, might get a day 2 type selection or whatever if he shows he’s growing. Plus, why would we want anyone who is a Packer to fail?? I just don’t get that part at all and there’s sentiment in some posters that think that way. Just Weird but I guess people are just off their Rockers. Look around! Sanity is in short supply

I believe that true fans root for their team/players even in its lows. That’s a true fan to me anyway. Those fans get the benefit when we truly develop a nobody player. I Think of Donald Driver. I can’t imagine that guy playing anywhere else.

I’d like nothing more than Love to succeed. It’s good for the Packers. Plus he’s a real person with a real family. I want the best for the kid.

Now If I’m a Bears fan?? I want him hobbled!

J/K

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rodgers has played some of his best football since Love was drafted.

hmmmmmm

was it "really wasted"????

Oh come on man, stop speculating that the drafting of Love lit a fire under Rodgers backside. They would be like speculating that Love was a bad pick 2 years in or that drafting Love would potentially end up pushing Rodgers out the door instead! Hmmmm....wait....

The Packers have had back to back 13 win seasons after Love was drafted, maybe we need to start crediting Love's ability to carry that clipboard for all those wins!

Let's also not forget that Rodgers has contemplated forcing a trade and or retiring....twice in the last year. Why can't people admit that Gute had more reasons for picking Love than thinking Rodgers was washed up.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That’s fine. It is what it is.
Im just defending a guy who many are making out to be a career failure before this horse hits the first Corner. That’s all. I’d defend you just the same.

Yeah and I don't think I ever called Love a career failure. It's impossible to know right now. I am concerned for him. He's not getting younger and he's not getting real NFL experience. He's still a first round pick. I wish GB would give the guy a chance somewhere.

 

[sschind]

The problem for me isn't that people think it's a wasted pick. I completely understand that now and even when it was made. In fact I'm leaning strongly towards agreeing with them. What gets me is how some people refuse to see that there may have been a legitimate reason for making the pick. They can't see or refuse to admit that maybe, just maybe Gute thought there was a good reason to make the pick. Their reason for the pick is simply Gute F'd up and should have known Rodgers wasn't in decline despite 2 years of stats to the contrary and several injuries. Looking back its clear Gute was wrong about Rodgers but there is no way possible that anyone could have known that at the time without the ability to see into the future.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The problem for me isn't that people think it's a wasted pick. I completely understand that now and even when it was made. In fact I'm leaning strongly towards agreeing with them. What gets me is how some people refuse to see that there may have been a legitimate reason for making the pick. They can't see or refuse to admit that maybe, just maybe Gute thought there was a good reason to make the pick. Their reason for the pick is simply Gute F'd up and should have known Rodgers wasn't in decline despite 2 years of stats to the contrary and several injuries. Looking back its clear Gute was wrong about Rodgers but there is no way possible that anyone could have known that at the time without the ability to see into the future.

Good point. Gluten was making a decision he thought was right, given what he had seen in Rodgers. He was wrong. We're all wrong sometime. He's certainly redeemed himself.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The problem for me isn't that people think it's a wasted pick. I completely understand that now and even when it was made. In fact I'm leaning strongly towards agreeing with them. What gets me is how some people refuse to see that there may have been a legitimate reason for making the pick. They can't see or refuse to admit that maybe, just maybe Gute thought there was a good reason to make the pick. Their reason for the pick is simply Gute F'd up and should have known Rodgers wasn't in decline despite 2 years of stats to the contrary and several injuries. Looking back its clear Gute was wrong about Rodgers but there is no way possible that anyone could have known that at the time without the ability to see into the future.

There may have been a reason to draft a developmental player later in the draft. Fans tend to ignore, and management should not, the history of quarterbacks in a new offense. First year under MLF was going to be difficult for Rodgers but second year QB performance under a new play caller shows a large jump, historically. Good example is Matt Ryan when Shannahan became OC; not super good the first year, MVP caliber the second.

GMs get paid millions of dollars to understand and manage their roster. Drafting a QB in the first means Gute was convinced Rodgers would not be a starting NFL QB in a year or two and i just do not understand how anyone could intelligently come to that conclusion. Draft a developmental guy later in the draft if you think Rodgers is done in a year or two but the way the NFL is played today generally means highly drafted QBs should be expected to be the starter in their first or second season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There may have been a reason to draft a developmental player later in the draft. Fans tend to ignore, and management should not, the history of quarterbacks in a new offense. First year under MLF was going to be difficult for Rodgers but second year QB performance under a new play caller shows a large jump, historically. Good example is Matt Ryan when Shannahan became OC; not super good the first year, MVP caliber the second.

GMs get paid millions of dollars to understand and manage their roster. Drafting a QB in the first means Gute was convinced Rodgers would not be a starting NFL QB in a year or two and i just do not understand how anyone could intelligently come to that conclusion. Draft a developmental guy later in the draft if you think Rodgers is done in a year or two but the way the NFL is played today generally means highly drafted QBs should be expected to be the starter in their first or second season.

Aren't most QB's "developmental" when drafted? Most QB's end up flaming out in the NFL, no matter what round they are picked in. However, I'm sure history has shown that the higher the QB is picked, the better chance of success. If fans are upset that Gute used a first round pick, for what they claim was "for no substantial reason", since in their minds Rodgers would play well past the 4 years said QB would be under contract, why suggest using any picks on a QB? Your logic is flawed and contradicts itself, if that is really what you think.

I think most of us, myself included, were baffled by the pick that night. However, as some of us learned more about how highly the Packers thought of Love and then factored in Rodgers age, injury history and latest stats, the pick made more sense. Much like when Rodgers himself was drafted, the Packers saw a real bargain fall to them and felt they might not have that same opportunity in future drafts. We still don't know how this will play out, but while Rodgers contemplated sitting out, retiring or forcing a trade twice in the last year, at least Gute already had his potential successor in the fold.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yeah and I don't think I ever called Love a career failure. It's impossible to know right now. I am concerned for him. He's not getting younger and he's not getting real NFL experience. He's still a first round pick. I wish GB would give the guy a chance somewhere.

My guess? They keep him and mold him with Tom Clements at the helm. There are few in the business more experienced than Clements. I expect we see some improvement this year.

I wish Love could’ve played the whole Lions game. He actually got the go ahead score 30-27 under 5 minutes remaining. If our D gets a stop there? We win that game. That would’ve went a long ways in confidence.

I see a trade next season. Just hypothesizing that he’ll either net a veteran player trade or 3rd/4th Rounder straight up in 2023. At that point there’s really no need in keeping him on the bench. Get something with 1 year of cheap contract. That’s the ticket and a top #100-#125 type draft pick is pretty cheap insurance for a stab at QB for a team thin at the position.

 

[PikeBadger]

That's a good point. I'm not a fan of the pick. I don't know how good Love can be - he's had three chances to start and he underwhelmed. If he wants to start in the NFL, he has to make the most of these chances. Favre's starting streak was in part because he hated the thought of giving someone else the ball. Favre made good when Majkowski went down. Love's gotta do better, and the way Rodgers is playing, that may not be in GB.

It's unfortunate that this has devolved and there are other Love haters, or, sorry, Love lovers. That's not the case. I need to see him play much better, but I hope he succeeds. I doubt it will be in GB though. Too much baggage and he deserves a clean start.

Lol, Jordan Love has too much baggage??? Just what do you know about him that no one else knows?

 

[sschind]

There may have been a reason to draft a developmental player later in the draft. Fans tend to ignore, and management should not, the history of quarterbacks in a new offense. First year under MLF was going to be difficult for Rodgers but second year QB performance under a new play caller shows a large jump, historically. Good example is Matt Ryan when Shannahan became OC; not super good the first year, MVP caliber the second.

GMs get paid millions of dollars to understand and manage their roster. Drafting a QB in the first means Gute was convinced Rodgers would not be a starting NFL QB in a year or two and i just do not understand how anyone could intelligently come to that conclusion. Draft a developmental guy later in the draft if you think Rodgers is done in a year or two but the way the NFL is played today generally means highly drafted QBs should be expected to be the starter in their first or second season.

Yup, pass on a guy who you have all the confidence in the world in so you can pick someone who might be OK later in the draft. Thats not how I want my GM to react to a perceived need. Whether that need turned out to be real or not was irrelevant at the time. Gute saw a need and reacted the way a GM should on that situation.

I do agree that GMs get paid millions to understand and manage their roster. Thats why when a GM thinks there may be a need in the future his job is to address it and I'd prefer he do it in a way he has confidence in rather with a half hearted attempt.

If 2 years of down stats and several injuries don't help you understand why a GM might think his QB may be on the way out I don't know how else to explain it to you.

Once again, anyone saying they knew Rodgers would return to form either disregarded the recent past or had a crystal ball. You could have guessed he would return to form but I'd prefer if my GM went a bit lighter in the guessing department.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yup, pass on a guy who you have all the confidence in the world in so you can pick someone who might be OK later in the draft. Thats not how I want my GM to react to a perceived need. Whether that need turned out to be real or not was irrelevant at the time. Gute saw a need and reacted the way a GM should on that situation.

I do agree that GMs get paid millions to understand and manage their roster. Thats why when a GM thinks there may be a need in the future his job is to address it and I'd prefer he do it in a way he has confidence in rather with a half hearted attempt.

If 2 years of down stats and several injuries don't help you understand why a GM might think his QB may be on the way out I don't know how else to explain it to you.

Once again, anyone saying they knew Rodgers would return to form either disregarded the recent past or had a crystal ball. You could have guessed he would return to form but I'd prefer if my GM went a bit lighter in the guessing department.

Any first round draft pick who isn’ta starter during his rookie contract, in my opinion, is a terrible draft pick. Arguments otherwise are simply weird and only ever come from people defending the Love pick. No other first round pick that i can think of has received this kind of support.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Lol, Jordan Love has too much baggage??? Just what do you know about him that no one else knows?

Any first round draft pick who isn’ta starter during his rookie contract, in my opinion, is a terrible draft pick. Arguments otherwise are simply weird and only ever come from people defending the Love pick. No other first round pick that i can think of has received this kind of support.

So Gary was a terrible pick? Rodgers? Oh wait, you said during his rookie contract. Correct me if I am wrong, but Love has 2-3 years left on his.

 

[sschind]

I think most of us, myself included, were baffled by the pick that night. However, as some of us learned more about how highly the Packers thought of Love and then factored in Rodgers age, injury history and latest stats, the pick made more sense. .

I think some people are confusing understanding why the pick was made with supporting it or thinking it was the right pick. Maybe that's why they keep saying there was no reason to draft a QB. I was not really a fan of the pick at the time and I'm even less of a fan now given how events have played out.

However, given what was KNOWN at the time, not what should have been known and not what was known only after time had passed, but was actually known, I do understand why the pick was made.

 

[sschind]

Any first round draft pick who isn’ta starter during his rookie contract, in my opinion, is a terrible draft pick. Arguments otherwise are simply weird and only ever come from people defending the Love pick. No other first round pick that i can think of has received this kind of support.

I agree, a first round draft pick who isn't a starter during his rookie contract is a terrible pick. I don't think I've ever said it wasn't. Did you know at the time Love wouldn't be a starter during his rookie contract? You may have guessed he wouldn't be a starter and thats why you thought it was a terrible pick at the time. Nobody wants you to think it wasn't a terrible pick. All I'm saying, and what you keep denying is that given the facts known at the time there was a reason for Gute to make the pick.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So Gary was a terrible pick? Rodgers? Oh wait, you said during his rookie contract. Correct me if I am wrong, but Love has 2-3 years left on his.

Great, we’ll circle back in two years to see if Love beats out the current MVP.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

Great, we’ll circle back in two years to see if Love beats out the current MVP.

Won't be a competition if Rodgers is retired

 

[PikeBadger]

Won't be a competition if Rodgers is retired

And it would be grand to have one QB ready to go if that happens or Rodgers sustains a serious injury. Rodgers doesn't have the escapability speed to get to the sideline he had 6-7 years ago. Father time and Mother Nature are undefeated.

I was surprised when we drafted Love. Then I saw his tape and read what scouts and "draft experts" said about him. We have drafted in the top 10 exactly twice this century I believe, and never in the last 10 years. When elite talent presents itself, I believe you must go for it. I believe this mostly because I believe in drafting for the future, not the upcoming season. I believe in constantly replenishing your core players through draft and development.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And it would be grand to have one QB ready to go if that happens or Rodgers sustains a serious injury. Rodgers doesn't have the escapability speed to get to the sideline he had 6-7 years ago. Father time and Mother Nature are undefeated.

I was surprised when we drafted Love. Then I saw his tape and read what scouts and "draft experts" said about him. We have drafted in the top 10 exactly twice this century I believe, and never in the last 10 years. When elite talent presents itself, I believe you must go for it. I believe this mostly because I believe in drafting for the future, not the upcoming season. I believe in constantly replenishing your core players through draft and development.

Excellent.

I would just add that QB is the most important, as well as by far THE most expensive position in the NFL. When you think you have a shot at a potentially good/great starter, to replace your current QB that is on the back 9, you take it.

If Rodgers forced the trade or retired and Love started and played well this year, everyone would be talking about Gute being the next Nostradamous. Much like the Gary pick.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Lol, Jordan Love has too much baggage??? Just what do you know about him that no one else knows?

I'll try to clear it up for you Pike. Didn't think it was that complicated. If all Love was doing was replacing Rodgers, immediately after he was drafted or in a year, he'd have the "baggage" of following two HOF QBs. It was the same with Rodgers when he replaced Favre.

Now it turns out Gluten was wrong and Rodgers is fine. He's played two years since Love was picked and won two MVPs and Love, a first round pick, just sits while Rodgers signs a new, huge contract. Now the weight, or "baggage", on love is even greater. And the fans who never thought he should have been drafted in the first place are getting more and more vocal. "We shoulda picked a WR dammit!" More "baggage" for Love to carry.

Maybe "baggage" isn't a good metaphor. My point is that through no fault of his own, Love is gonna have a tough time in GB. IMO it's best to trade him to a team where he has a chance, and doesn't have the "baggage" he's accumulated in GB. He seems like a good guy and I'm sure he wants to play and prove himself.

Hope that helps.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Drafting a QB in the first means Gute was convinced Rodgers would not be a starting NFL QB in a year or two and i just do not understand how anyone could intelligently come to that conclusion.

Thanks Sunshine for making the point in one sentence.

I attributed Rodgers poorer play in the year or two prior to drafting Love as staleness in MM's system. I think Rodgers and more than a few other guys were tired of MM. It was reflected in their play. That's all I ever made of it. I never saw Rodgers as slipping due to age.

So when they needed a WR in a WR-rich draft, and then traded up to draft a QB no one had heard of (and never drafted a WR), I and a lot of other fans were pissed. That's not Love's fault. But it's time to send him somewhere else where he can prove himself.

As for Gluten, well he ****** up but has since done an outstanding job. Everyone makes mistakes. Let's move on.

 

[sschind]

I'll try to clear it up for you Pike. Didn't think it was that complicated. If all Love was doing was replacing Rodgers, immediately after he was drafted or in a year, he'd have the "baggage" of following two HOF QBs. It was the same with Rodgers when he replaced Favre.

Now it turns out Gluten was wrong and Rodgers is fine. He's played two years since Love was picked and won two MVPs and Love, a first round pick, just sits while Rodgers signs a new, huge contract. Now the weight, or "baggage", on love is even greater. And the fans who never thought he should have been drafted in the first place are getting more and more vocal. "We shoulda picked a WR dammit!" More "baggage" for Love to carry.

Maybe "baggage" isn't a good metaphor. My point is that through no fault of his own, Love is gonna have a tough time in GB. IMO it's best to trade him to a team where he has a chance, and doesn't have the "baggage" he's accumulated in GB. He seems like a good guy and I'm sure he wants to play and prove himself.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the clarification. When I think of players with baggage I think of things of their own doing. Pictures of them smoking weed, a domestic violence report, racist comments, history of being a poor teammate, things like that. Things that have already turned public opinion against them. Things that are their own fault.

I'm not sure what I would call what you are talking about. Probably just pressure to perform. Whatever, I think thats where the confusion was.

Other than that I agree that the best thing for Love would probably be if he were traded. Unfortunately for him I think his value to the Packers is higher than the rest of the league so what the Packers could possibly get for him makes it unlikely and unwise for them to trade him.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Thanks for the clarification. When I think of players with baggage I think of things of their own doing. Pictures of them smoking weed, a domestic violence report, racist comments, history of being a poor teammate, things like that. Things that have already turned public opinion against them. Things that are their own fault.

I'm not sure what I would call what you are talking about. Probably just pressure to perform. Whatever, I think thats where the confusion was.

Other than that I agree that the best thing for Love would probably be if he were traded. Unfortunately for him I think his value to the Packers is higher than the rest of the league so what the Packers could possibly get for him makes it unlikely and unwise for them to trade him.

Agree with all you said sschind. "Pressure to perform" is the best way to describe Love's situation. All the 90 guys in camp feel the pressure to perform. Some more than others. Even Rodgers, with that new contract, will feel the pressure to perform to justify it. And it's kinda hard to top back to back MVPs. Hey Aaron, how about you get the SB MVP this year?

And I like your notion that baggage is what a player brings, for all the reasons you listed. Good way to look at it. And again, some players, like Deshaun Watson, have a lot more baggage (and in his case, money) to bring along than others.

Anyway thanks. Great clarification.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

and then traded up to draft a QB no one had heard of

This better explains your disappointment with Love being drafted. Most fans of college football and anyone vesting a bit of time into the pre-draft stuff, knew who Love was. Some Scouts actually put him top 10, with a very high upside.

Now I understand your dislike for the pick better.