The Big Choice

[Half Empty]

Bengston, Starr, Gregg all ended up GM or de facto GM. None did particularly well.

Remembered those as poor HC, didn't remember (didn't even know) them as the poor GMs.

 

[PikeBadger]

So you're saying we get to choose between standing on the deck of the USS Arizona 7:30am December 7, 1941 or the RMS Titanic at 23:00 April 14, 1912 (without Rose btw.)

I'll take the deck of the Arizona, especially if I get to choose where on the deck I'm standing. It was a quick dive and short swim to Ford Island.

Just sayin.

 

[Voyageur]

Bengtson was done before he started. The team Lombardi left him was old, and had a lot of younger players who would never develop. If you look at Lombardi's actual drafting, it was fair, not great. A lot of the early success came from players who were there when he took over in 1958. Not belittling his drafts, just saying Bengtson wasn't so lucky, and taking over behind a legend? Also, Phil was a nice guy who worked well under direction, not giving direction other than as a coach who took orders.

Starr and Gregg had a tough road to ***. Not enough money to get top level free agents, and at that time, Green Bay had become "The Siberia of Football." You didn't want to go there, if you could avoid it. Add to it, the paranoia that Gregg brought to the table, after having been "spied on" in Cleveland with a plant from the ownership, and you could understand his being tight. Making matters worse, he couldn't handle both GM and coaches job. He needed to be the coach, and someone else should have been in charge of the office. He also didn't trust about half the people working for the Packers. If they were there before he got there, he figured they were spying on him. He was dead in the water before he started. Sadly, Starr had about the same feeling.

Nobody was trying to undermine them. They just thought they were, from what I gathered. But, to them, it was a mindset. Not quite true with Devine when he came in. He was an outsider, a "hotshot" who knew all the answers. But, he was not Packer family, and the Executive Board did undermine a lot of what he was doing. A lot of us are still trying to sort out the damned Hadl trade, all these years later. What were they all thinking? It was worse than Infante thinking that he was much wiser than the people who warned him about players like Tony Mandarich. A steroid freak. To those who knew the score, they warned that this guy would never pass the physical because of the 'roids. Disaster. He didn't want to go to Green Bay either. He said it was a little village in the middle of nowhere. He was "The Great Mandarich," and he'd do what he wanted, when he wanted. How'd that work out for the Packers, and Mandarich? Infante was shown the door.

It was a bad era. Kind of like waking up in the morning with a cow in bed with you wearing lipstick, and you can't remember what the hell you did last night... and as you think about it, you don't really want to remember......

 

[swhitset]

Though it would be much better if Adams was on board with a trade; it is not really his call. Of course he would prefer to just be a free agent. I think it comes down to a realistic outlook if we could get something for him and not be stuck with the tag.

When you only have 8 days between tag and trade…. it would definitely be Adams call. No way a team is going to trade with the Packers unless they know Adams is willing. If they can‘t make the trade, they are completely screwed in that situation.

 

[KiDcUdI]

More excuses. Brady/Brees/just about anyone would have thrown the easy first down to Lazard on that last play. Rodgers should ALWAYS look for the best option on ANY play instead of just zeroing in on his buddy when he panics. It's why he's not a good QB anymore. He's too dependent on his crutch. Are you seriously saying that his decision on that play was acceptable to you?

Rodgers took the easy throws last season against the Buccs and Lazard blew it every chance he got.

He got out muscled going up the seam by a CB 3 inches smaller and 30 pounds lighter, he blew a pick route that was supposed to get Adams open, and most criminal of all he ducked a ball when he was wide open on an RPO that would have been the opportunity to tie the game. Lazard sucks as a receiver. If he isn’t blocking he’s useless.

 

[Pugger]

I see the wisdom and pitfalls of all of these scenarios. I can't really commit to any of them without a fair amount of hesitation to go along with it. Stay, Retire or Trade are all as likely as far as i'm concerned. I'd say i'd like the retire option the least from a team stand point.

I just don't think he'll retire. I thought he said in last week's McAfee podcast he wouldn't pull a Favre, retire and then try to come back.

 

[Pugger]

Bengtson was done before he started. The team Lombardi left him was old, and had a lot of younger players who would never develop. If you look at Lombardi's actual drafting, it was fair, not great. A lot of the early success came from players who were there when he took over in 1958. Not belittling his drafts, just saying Bengtson wasn't so lucky, and taking over behind a legend? Also, Phil was a nice guy who worked well under direction, not giving direction other than as a coach who took orders.

Starr and Gregg had a tough road to ***. Not enough money to get top level free agents, and at that time, Green Bay had become "The Siberia of Football." You didn't want to go there, if you could avoid it. Add to it, the paranoia that Gregg brought to the table, after having been "spied on" in Cleveland with a plant from the ownership, and you could understand his being tight. Making matters worse, he couldn't handle both GM and coaches job. He needed to be the coach, and someone else should have been in charge of the office. He also didn't trust about half the people working for the Packers. If they were there before he got there, he figured they were spying on him. He was dead in the water before he started. Sadly, Starr had about the same feeling.

Nobody was trying to undermine them. They just thought they were, from what I gathered. But, to them, it was a mindset. Not quite true with Devine when he came in. He was an outsider, a "hotshot" who knew all the answers. But, he was not Packer family, and the Executive Board did undermine a lot of what he was doing. A lot of us are still trying to sort out the damned Hadl trade, all these years later. What were they all thinking? It was worse than Infante thinking that he was much wiser than the people who warned him about players like Tony Mandarich. A steroid freak. To those who knew the score, they warned that this guy would never pass the physical because of the 'roids. Disaster. He didn't want to go to Green Bay either. He said it was a little village in the middle of nowhere. He was "The Great Mandarich," and he'd do what he wanted, when he wanted. How'd that work out for the Packers, and Mandarich? Infante was shown the door.

It was a bad era. Kind of like waking up in the morning with a cow in bed with you wearing lipstick, and you can't remember what the hell you did last night... and as you think about it, you don't really want to remember......

Starr did himself no favors by some of his draft decisions during that time. In 1980 he drafted Bruce Clark even tho the player told the team he would spurn them and go to Canada if they did. In 1981 he ignored his assistants and scouts and took Rich Campbell at #6 instead of Ronnie Lott!

 

[Voyageur]

Starr did himself no favors by some of his draft decisions during that time. In 1980 he drafted Bruce Clark even tho the player told the team he would spurn them and go to Canada if they did. In 1981 he ignored his assistants and scouts and took Rich Campbell at #6 instead of Ronnie Lott!

Like I said, the Siberia of football. He was desperate for a QB. Bad mistake.

 

[Raleigh NC Packers Fan]

So part of the package back from Denver could be players. Given the position that the Packers will be in, it wouldn't be older, veteran players, but younger guys on rookie deals.

I think the most obviously candidate would be Jerry Jeudy. Obviously if the Broncos acquire Rodgers, they're in "win now" mode all the way, which means they aren't going to be shedding players that are key for their current success. However, where Rodgers goes, Adams is sure to follow. And Adams is essentially the best version of Jeudy, so the latter would be expendable.

Jeudy only played 38% of snaps in 2021. His line was 38 catches on 56 targets for 467 yards. If you extrapolated that out to 90% of snaps (essentially a full season, but coming off the field at times), it comes to 90 catches for 1,107 yards. And that's with Denver's QB play.

Jeudy is essentially the lesser version of Davante Adams-- he's a route technician whose game is all about creating separation. They're actually pretty similar athletes-- both 6'1" with Jeudy being lighter and faster in a straight line, and Adams being biggers/stronger.

However, Jeudy is still only 22. He came out really young, so there's still the potential for quite a bit of development. And while he certainly isn't as good as Adams, he would be about as good of an immediate replacement for that role in the offense as one could hope for. Plus, he's on a cheap rookie deal through 2023.

If they move on from Rodgers, then 2022 is going to be about taking cap medicine and assessing Love. The former means you're not trying to spend a lot of money on free agents and really build up the roster. But the latter means that you need to have enough pieces on offense to really get an accurate sense for what Love can do. I think Jeudy could fit both purposes.

I wonder if we could swap a bunch of players with the Broncos? How about trying to get some younger players in return for exchanging some veterans and/or players at the end of their contracts with the Broncos since we would be in rebuilding mode anyway?

For example, if we do end up trading Rodgers, I wonder if we could also include a franchise-tagged Adams and Z Smith? Maybe we could get Chubb and Jeudy along with the draft picks? Some other players could even be included on both sides as well, although those would be the major ones in such a trade.

That would be a tremendous haul.

 

[Voyageur]

I don't think we're going to see players involved in any deal for Rodgers. It will be picks. The Packers can't afford a decent player's cap money.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Rodgers took the easy throws last season against the Buccs and Lazard blew it every chance he got.

He got out muscled going up the seam by a CB 3 inches smaller and 30 pounds lighter, he blew a pick route that was supposed to get Adams open, and most criminal of all he ducked a ball when he was wide open on an RPO that would have been the opportunity to tie the game. Lazard sucks as a receiver. If he isn’t blocking he’s useless.

THIS is how you justify an absolutely STUPID decision by Rodgers? I nominate this for fanboy horsh$hite post of the week.

 

[gopkrs]

When you only have 8 days between tag and trade…. it would definitely be Adams call. No way a team is going to trade with the Packers unless they know Adams is willing. If they can‘t make the trade, they are completely screwed in that situation.

After thinking about your reply I decided that my statement still stands. It's not up to him. But we had better have our ducks in a row. Playing with fire...why not?

 

[gopkrs]

I don't think we're going to see players involved in any deal for Rodgers. It will be picks. The Packers can't afford a decent player's cap money.

Jeudy?

 

[Voyageur]

Jeudy?

Interesting idea, but I'd pass on it. He is affordable within the cap. I'd rather see the Packers get picks, even spread over 3 years.

 

[Firethorn1001]

lved in any deal for Rodgers. It will be picks. The Packers can't afford a decent player's cap money.

If traded to the Broncos, I could see Jeudy coming back especially if they were also to acquire Adams.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Packers would certainly consider taking back a rookie-contract, high level receiver in any potential trade for Rodgers if Adams doesn't come back to the Packers. I don't care how many picks you have, the receiving room without Adams next year might be in the running for worst in the NFL and I'm fairly certain that Gute doesn't want to make Love look bad considering how much he's tied to that pick. Gute is going to want Love to look as good as possible and making Lazard the team's best receiver isn't the best way to go about doing that.

 

[Voyageur]

Packers would certainly consider taking back a rookie-contract, high level receiver in any potential trade for Rodgers if Adams doesn't come back to the Packers. I don't care how many picks you have, the receiving room without Adams next year might be in the running for worst in the NFL and I'm fairly certain that Gute doesn't want to make Love look bad considering how much he's tied to that pick. Gute is going to want Love to look as good as possible and making Lazard the team's best receiver isn't the best way to go about doing that.

I'm not certain the Broncos would even consider giving up a weapon they could use with Rodgers coming in. I understand the idea behind what you guys are saying, but if I'm the Broncos, I'm not going to even consider that option. My objective is to win a Lombardi Trophy, and giving Rodgers the weapons to do it is what it's all about.

Just my opinion.

 

[KiDcUdI]

THIS is how you justify an absolutely STUPID decision by Rodgers? I nominate this for fanboy horsh$hite post of the week.

I bet you’ve never played past peewee. When the games on the line you go to your best player. You don’t trust the team **** up in a pressure situation.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I bet you’ve never played past peewee. When the games on the line you go to your best player. You don’t trust the team **** up in a pressure situation.

No, when the game is on the line you go to the receiver who is WIDE OPEN for an easy first down. You do NOT go to the guy 50 yards downfield with two defenders stuck on him like Velcro, regardless of the name on his jersey. Not sure where your football IQ lies, but it sure seems to be somewhere around the current temperature at Lambeau.

BTW, the main one who has consistently ****ed up pressure situations in the playoffs recently wears a 12 on his jersey.

 

[Poppa San]

I am glad people followed the groupthink in taking the smallpox and polio vaccines in the 20th century.
When building a house I would listen to plumbers, carpenters, roofers, masons etc. when dealing with a pandemic I listen to health care professionals.

I listen to the professionals to but when a select few are lionized by the groupthink in the media and politics and everyone else with the same credentials is demonized and silenced because they want to play devil's advocate or have a different interpretation of the data? The only answer is to follow the money or see who acquires power.

I'll take the deck of the Arizona, especially if I get to choose where on the deck I'm standing. It was a quick dive and short swim to Ford Island.

Just sayin.

Bet the water was warmer also.

Lazard sucks as a receiver. If he isn’t blocking he’s useless.

Spotrac doesn't agree with you. The have him as a $7.5m per year receiver. Better than a bottom feeder.

 

[KiDcUdI]

Spotrac doesn't agree with you. The have him as a $7.5m per year receiver. Better than a bottom feeder.

Omg thank you. I needed a good laugh today. I actually teared up a little there. Funny guy.

 

[tynimiller]

Kid….you’re delusional about Lazard and suffer from the inability to understand every WR depth chart cannot be filled with guys that are #1WR types, and not everyone plays the support role well…he does

 

[Voyageur]

Kid….you’re delusional about Lazard and suffer from the inability to understand every WR depth chart cannot be filled with guys that are #1WR types, and not everyone plays the support role well…he does

I'll bet you're a helluva lot of fun at the Mall playing Santa at Christmas, telling all the kids that you're a fake, and there ain't no Santa.

 

[easyk83]

Bengtson was done before he started. The team Lombardi left him was old, and had a lot of younger players who would never develop. If you look at Lombardi's actual drafting, it was fair, not great. A lot of the early success came from players who were there when he took over in 1958. Not belittling his drafts, just saying Bengtson wasn't so lucky, and taking over behind a legend? Also, Phil was a nice guy who worked well under direction, not giving direction other than as a coach who took orders.

Quick plug for the hidden legend of Packer football, Jack Vainisi was the team's director of Personnel and Talent Scout from 1950 until 1960. He's credited in some circles with creating the first modern approach to the NFL draft. He was responsible for drafting much of the HoF talent that Lombardi relied on and was chiefly responsible for bringing Lombardi to GB. Kind of wonder what might have been if he didn't die at 33 years old in 1960. Had he been running the drafts in the 60s the Packers might have dominated the 70s as well.

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[sschind]

Kid….you’re delusional about Lazard and suffer from the inability to understand every WR depth chart cannot be filled with guys that are #1WR types, and not everyone plays the support role well…he does

as someone else said I'd be happy if Lazard was the #3 most targeted WR. Note I said WR not player.