The Aaron Rodgers performance thread

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like above, what can be the causes for Van Pelt? Absolutely none, which is why that decision is most controversial. And it was a good relationship? What was gained by cutting Van pelt? Nobody still knows.

Van Pelt did not sign an extension before the 2017 season because he wanted to be able to pursue a coordinator job. Mike McCarthy has historically blocked position coaches from coordinator interviews if under contract. Ben McAdoo did same thing after being blocked.

Van Pelt was offered an extension and chose not to resign it. Do we know for a fact that Van Pelt didn't say right there and then "If you want me around in 2018, I am only signing a new contract if I am allowed to pursue an OC job elsewhere during that time"?

People thinking this is as simple as MM saying "I don't want this guy around, because he helps #12 in undermining my job", are creating potential fiction. Why would Van Pelt been offered an extension before the 2017 if that was the case?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Van Pelt was not cut. He was not fired. and HE refused to sign an extension offered the prior year. He refused. He could have signed. He didn't. Why? and why is a coach that didn't want to sign an extension the prior year surprised when they let his contract run out and replaced someone that didn't want to commit to them just 1 season before?

Get out of my head!

 

[Mondio]

Get out of my head!

bwahhhhh, I'm in there, and i'm not leaving.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interesting! I've always presumed vice versa. The breakup in dynamics was the cause for us falling from grace was my take on the situation.

I guess I view the Packers fall from grace as stemming from too many consecutive drafts that were by most standards pretty bad. A GM that stuck with his own guys too long and didn't effectively use Free Agency. As well as loosing Rodgers for most of the 2017 season and having him playing injured for much of 2018.

When you start loosing, everything begins to get magnified and tensions mount. What once was a workable relationship between MM and AR, when they were winning, slowly began to crumble under the pressures of loosing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

bwahhhhh, I'm in there, and i'm not leaving.

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[PackAttack12]

I guess I view the Packers fall from grace as stemming from too many consecutive drafts that were by most standards pretty bad. A GM that stuck with his own guys too long and didn't effectively use Free Agency. As well as loosing Rodgers for most of the 2017 season and having him playing injured for much of 2018.

When you start loosing, everything begins to get magnified and tensions mount. What once was a workable relationship between MM and AR, when they were winning, slowly began to crumble under the pressures of loosing.

Rodgers missing most of 2017 and being compromised for the better part of 2018 really exposed the Packers. The minute your quarterback either isn't, or isn't able, to play all-time great football, you've got nothing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rodgers missing most of 2017 and being compromised for the better part of 2018 really exposed the Packers. The minute your quarterback either isn't, or isn't able, to play all-time great football, you've got nothing.

Yup and I said it in 2017 and I will say it again, Rodgers was able to cover up a lot of the deficiencies of a team, a team that without him, was just average. While I hated seeing him go down with the shoulder injury, I think it finally unmasked what this team really was and was the event that set the wheels in motion for all of the changes we have seen in the last 1 plus years.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

Yup and I said it in 2017 and I will say it again, Rodgers was able to cover up a lot of the deficiencies of a team, a team that without him, was just average. While I hated seeing him go down with the shoulder injury, I think it finally unmasked what this team really was and was the event that set the wheels in motion for all of the changes we have seen in the last 1 plus years.

Blessing in disguise I would say

 

[Mondio]

A few bad injuries, some draft picks that didn't work out, some others that were kind of in no man's land when FA came up (good players, not starters here, but going to be paid like one) and we get what we got. any and all can and should be pointed too as reasons for the poor seasons. They need a couple good drafts and we'll be on our way. If they don't, FA isn't the way to build a team and we have a few too many holes to call it a player or 2 patch.

 

[gbgary]

A few bad injuries, some draft picks that didn't work out, some others that were kind of in no man's land when FA came up (good players, not starters here, but going to be paid like one) and we get what we got. any and all can and should be pointed too as reasons for the poor seasons. They need a couple good drafts and we'll be on our way. If they don't, FA isn't the way to build a team and we have a few too many holes to call it a player or 2 patch.

the Packers are in a very difficult spot. the team isn't good enough that a couple of great free agents can take them to the SB. they don't have the cap space to do what it would take in the short term. they also don't have the time that they can do it old fashioned way of draft/develop. they're in a place that everything would have to go perfectly to get to a SB...no injuries, competent depth, several impact draft picks, a couple of great free agents, and rodgers being pre-2015 rodgers. right now just getting a winning record (9-7) is going to be a challenge.

 

[rmontro]

Van Pelt was not cut. He was not fired. and HE refused to sign an extension offered the prior year. He refused. He could have signed. He didn't. Why?

From what I recall, wasn't Van Pelt expecting to get an offensive coordinator job offer from someone, but that offer never materialized? That was supposedly why he didn't sign an extension the year before, because he was expecting to move up in his career, and he told that to McCarthy. So in the meantime, McCarthy went ahead and promised the QB coach spot to someone else, and didn't think it was right to renege on it.

Van Pelt might have been willing to resign if it hadn't been for that. Sounds like a case of bad timing all around.

EDITED TO SAY:
Sorry, Pokerbrat2000, I didn't see that you had already answered this. I don't understand how I didn't see your post.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

People also have to keep in mind what happened on the field in 2017, Van Pelt's last season as the QB Coach. Brett Hundley looked pretty pathetic after he replaced Rodgers. If I am MM and I see my backup playing that poorly, I start to wonder if I have the right guy coaching my QB's.

I know its a much juicier story when people can say "see....MM and the Packers were messing with Rodgers", but when you take into consideration Van Pelt's unwillingness to sign an extension prior to the 2017 season, Hundley's performance, as well as anything else we may not be aware of, there is more to it than just MM flipping #12 the bird.

 

[Mondio]

the Packers are in a very difficult spot. the team isn't good enough that a couple of great free agents can take them to the SB. they don't have the cap space to do what it would take in the short term. they also don't have the time that they can do it old fashioned way of draft/develop. they're in a place that everything would have to go perfectly to get to a SB...no injuries, competent depth, several impact draft picks, a couple of great free agents, and rodgers being pre-2015 rodgers. right now just getting a winning record (9-7) is going to be a challenge.

They have time. If it's a "we have to win next year or we have no time" then no we probably don't and if we extend ourselves trying to win that way, we won't likely win after either.

But a nice investment was made in the QB, he should have 4-5-6 years of pretty high level play. We had a fairly good draft class last year, another like it and we'll be position just fine to hit a 3-4 year stretch in basically 1 more year. Thinking we're going to win this year with the holes we have and new coaches is a possibility ,but very highly unlikely and anybody expecting it is being unrealistic. But I see no reason why, with another strong draft, we won't be legitimately competing in another year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

2019 will be the first season in a long time when my expectations of the Packers will be pretty guarded and I think for a good reason. As Mondio pointed out above and I have said before, Gute's 2nd year, practically a new coaching staff, new offensive playbook and Pettine's 2nd year as DC is probably not going to instantly field a Super Bowl contender. While I am sure that the Packers goal will be to win a SB, 10-6 and a spot in the playoffs would be a win for me.

 

[Do7]

2019 will be the first season in a long time when my expectations of the Packers will be pretty guarded and I think for a good reason. As Mondio pointed out above and I have said before, Gute's 2nd year, practically a new coaching staff, new offensive playbook and Pettine's 2nd year as DC is probably not going to instantly field a Super Bowl contender. While I am sure that the Packers goal will be to win a SB, 10-6 and a spot in the playoffs would be a win for me.

Making a playoffs would be a realistic goal. Certainly a better record than what we had last year.

 

[XPack]

2019 will be the first season in a long time when my expectations of the Packers will be pretty guarded and I think for a good reason.

I never bother with this. I always predict the SB coming home. At least let's be optimistic before the season begins

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I never bother with this. I always predict the SB coming home. At least let's be optimistic before the season begins

That could end up being like predicting you are going to go home with Gisele Bündchen and at midnight realizing Rosie O'Donnell is the only woman who hasn't left the party.

Set your goals high, but taper your expectations with reality. If the Packers win the Super Bowl, I will have felt like I just took Tom Brady's wife (and trophy) home.

 

[XPack]

That could end up being like predicting you are going to go home with Gisele Bündchen and at midnight realizing Rosie O'Donnell is the only woman who hasn't left the party.

If that happens, I'm sure Kraft can hook me up to a Chinese massage parlour.

Anyway Giselle really ain't my type. And neither is Rosie just to be clear.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Anyway Giselle really ain't my type. And neither is Rosie just to be clear.

I doubt either will be too devastated by the news.

 

[gbgary]

I never bother with this. I always predict the SB coming home. At least let's be optimistic before the season begins

you'll be less disappointed if your expectations/hopes are lower. works on so many levels.

 

[Do7]

you'll be less disappointed if your expectations/hopes are lower. works on so many levels.

Where's the fun in that? (Though in actuality I share those sentiments, hence why I don't expect much from others)

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Aaron Rodgers is an attitude problem, and a drop of in skill problem. He won't be around by year 3 of his extension.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

smh...i didn't. i said his struggles of the previous two years got worse in 2018. that's not the same thing.

Rodgers didn't struggle late in 2016 and before getting injured in '17 though.

Absolutely. There's some kind of crazy stat that in 23 of 39 playoff games under Belichick, the defense has allowed zero points in the 4th quarter and on average give up less than three per game in the 4th quarter. That's just absurdly good, and it facilitates toward Brady being able to work his magic. Rodgers obviously has rarely had that luxury.

Those numbers aren't correct though. The Patriots haven't allowed a point in the fourth quarter in 13 of Brady's 40 playoff games. On average they have surrendered 6.4 points in the last 15 minutes, which is the highest number in a quarter.

Yup and I said it in 2017 and I will say it again, Rodgers was able to cover up a lot of the deficiencies of a team, a team that without him, was just average.

Actually the team wasn't even average without him at that point.

 

[PackAttack12]

Rodgers didn't struggle late in 2016 and before getting injured in '17 though.



Those numbers aren't correct though. The Patriots haven't allowed a point in the fourth quarter in 13 of Brady's 40 playoff games. On average they have surrendered 6.4 points in the last 15 minutes, which is the highest number in a quarter.

After going back to check for myself, you're correct. I knew I should have fact checked that one. It was "absurdly" good for a reason, huh? Thanks for correcting me.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Actually the team wasn't even average without him at that point.

You are probably correct and I may have been a bit generous by labeling the Packers team as being "average" without Rodgers. I guess in my head I was taking into account that if Hundley wasn't so bad, they may have won a few more games and been "average".