The Aaron Rodgers performance thread

What's our main problem?


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Pokerbrat2000

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I think the fact that Gutekunst and LaFleur essentially confirmed that Rodgers was consulted in the head coaching search, along with the fact that Rodgers reached out to LaFleur prior to the Packers offering him the head coaching position, suggests that the organization now feels that he does need to be involved and that his thoughts/opinion at least matters, if only slightly.

Like it or not, Rodgers is the single most important individual in the Packers organization. Should he get veto authority on personnel decisions? Of course not. But I see absolutely nothing wrong with at least giving him a heads up on certain critical moves. You know, like they did with the coaching search...

Nothing at all wrong with that.

I think the level that Rodgers was involved in the hiring of LeFleur is being blown out of proportion. Rodgers was told after Murphy and Gute had targeted MFL as the next coach. Rodgers was a part of the "Leadership Committee" and Gute talked to them and several players after the season was over. Guessing to gain some insight as to what direction they wanted to head, but had the Packers hired a different head coach, I'm pretty sure people could spin this and say "Rodgers wanted MFL but the Packers didn't listen to him and hired...."

http://www.wtmj.com/news/was-aaron-...-prior-to-the-hire-of-matt-lafleur-/973484093
 
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XPack

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Just to be clear, Van Pelt wasn't fired but his expiring contract wasn't renewed. There were some rumors that he didn't want to stay in Green Bay as well.

I don't put faith in that rumour. If Van Pelt was considering leaving GB, then AR would definitely in the know. They had a great dynamic (more like friends) and I doubt Packers would know something that AR didn't, specifically in this. It was a corporate decision to not renew his contract.

Are you saying that Rodgers has earned a seat at the table when it comes to deciding who should and shouldn't be on the roster, because he knows what is best for him? Should Rodgers be asked to be in the draft war room now?

Lets not quote extreme cases here. Nobody wants AR running the scenes...and nobody wants to tell Rodgers to shut up and play, come what may. Neither are practical or beneficial scenarios and way forward is somewhere in between.

I personally have been consulted on what key characteristic I find it important when choosing my new boss. Did I have a say in the recruitment? Obviously not. But feedback/consultation helps both parties come to mutually beneficial conclusion.
 
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I don't put faith in that rumour. If Van Pelt was considering leaving GB, then AR would definitely in the know. They had a great dynamic (more like friends) and I doubt Packers would know something that AR didn't, specifically in this. It was a corporate decision to not renew his contract.

There were multiple reports that Van Pelt wanted to become an offensive coordinator again, a position he wasn't going to receive in Green Bay.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Lets not quote extreme cases here. Nobody wants AR running the scenes...and nobody wants to tell Rodgers to shut up and play, come what may. Neither are practical or beneficial scenarios and way forward is somewhere in between.

Of course nobody wants AR to be running the scene, but where do you draw the line? Some are saying he should have been consulted with about Jordy and Van Pelt. So right there, people are saying he should be involved with player and coaching decisions. Should he be consulted if his friend Mason Crosby is on the chopping block? Randall Cobb?

What are you gaining by "consulting" with Rodgers in these decisions, especially if the ultimate decision isn't the one Rodgers agrees with. Feels more like lip service to me, to try to make someone feel like they are involved in a process that they really aren't.

If cutting Jordy effected Rodgers in a negative way mentally, than that is on Rodgers and his mental makeup. If cutting Jordy effected the overall performance of the offense in a negative way, than bad decision by Gute.
 

PackAttack12

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It was mentioned that Rodgers and LaFleur talked to each other on the phone before MLF was hired as the team's coach. There was rightfully not a single word about #12 being involved in the decision though.
Involved in pulling the trigger and deciding to hire LaFleur? No. Given a heads up prior to the decision being made? Yes.

The same thing they could have done regarding Van Pelt. What's the difference?

This is all that I am saying. On certain decisions that are made, Rodgers should absolutely be in the know. The decision regarding Jordy? I'm fine with Rodgers not knowing. The decision regarding his position coach? He should have absolutely been in the know.

All I'm saying is that, the extent to which Rodgers was involved in the process with LaFleur is more than proper, and essential in my opinion.
 

PackAttack12

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I think the level that Rodgers was involved in the hiring of LeFleur is being blown out of proportion.
Depends on your definition of "involved". I'm only implying that he needs to be given a heads up. Common courtesy. With Jordy, no. With HIS position coach that he works with every day? Yes. With the head coach? Yes.

The same courtesy they extended Rodgers in telling him about the hire of LaFleur is the way they could have handled Van Pelt. Rodgers even said himself that it wasn't the decision itself, just the fact that he found out the same way that us as fans found out. I just don't agree with that.

Glad they autocorrected this time around. Should have been done last time.
 
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There were multiple reports that Van Pelt wanted to become an offensive coordinator again, a position he wasn't going to receive in Green Bay.

As I said, I think AR would be in the know. They were reputedly quite close to each other and I don't think that rumours about Van Pelt wanting to leave without telling Rodgers first is not very realistic imo.

What are you gaining by "consulting" with Rodgers in these decisions, especially if the ultimate decision isn't the one Rodgers agrees with. Feels more like lip service to me, to try to make someone feel like they are involved in a process that they really aren't.

It's 101 of good management, not just in sports..but on general principles. Coach and Franchise QB are the 2 most important memebers for a team and there is no harm getting feedback from both of them before making a move. Everyone understands that giving a feedback means being involved in the process not decision making. And if GM had gotten that feedback, he'd have known that things are not OK between MM and AR12.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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It's 101 of good management, not just in sports..but on general principles. Coach and Franchise QB are the 2 most important memebers for a team and there is no harm getting feedback from both of them before making a move. Everyone understands that giving a feedback means being involved in the process not decision making. And if GM had gotten that feedback, he'd have known that things are not OK between MM and AR12.

I'm asking this as a serious question, because I honestly don't know. Is this how all NFL teams operate? Does Belichick consult with Brady? Payton with Brees?
 

gbgary

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Direct quotes from Gutekunst and LaFleur directly contradict that thought. Watch the presser where LaFleur was introduced as head coach. I didn't pull it out of thin air.

Murphy is the only one with veto power in the organization. Does that mean he needs to be a one man show??? :rolleyes: You can consult with people in the organization and get their thoughts, give them a heads up without them having the authority to make a transaction.
i'd have to hear the presser again but i don't think they said they consulted with him as much as they just gave him a heads up and asked rodgers to speak with him before the announcement.
 

PackAttack12

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i'd have to hear the presser again but i don't think they said they consulted with him as much as they just gave him a heads up and asked rodgers to speak with him before the announcement.
Consulted could be a poor choice of words. However you want to word it, Rodgers was "in the loop". Which is all I'm suggesting that the Packers should do.

The thought from some that this is an out of the norm practice is a bit of a head scratcher for me.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Do7

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You have the choice not to respond to certain topics. Just sayin' :p
He was correcting me on a few things. I don't mind, especially when I'm one preaching for people to get their facts straight. I made a mistake in some regards and I owned up to it. That's how it goes.
 
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Involved in pulling the trigger and deciding to hire LaFleur? No. Given a heads up prior to the decision being made? Yes.

The same thing they could have done regarding Van Pelt. What's the difference?

This is all that I am saying. On certain decisions that are made, Rodgers should absolutely be in the know. The decision regarding Jordy? I'm fine with Rodgers not knowing. The decision regarding his position coach? He should have absolutely been in the know.

All I'm saying is that, the extent to which Rodgers was involved in the process with LaFleur is more than proper, and essential in my opinion.

There's a huge difference between Rodgers being involved in a decision or given a heads up before the media is informed. I don't necessarily agree that it's a must talking to him about certain decisions before publicly announcing them but there's no harm doing it either.

Coach and Franchise QB are the 2 most important memebers for a team and there is no harm getting feedback from both of them before making a move. Everyone understands that giving a feedback means being involved in the process not decision making. And if GM had gotten that feedback, he'd have known that things are not OK between MM and AR12.

I don't feel the need for Rodgers being allowed to give feedback on front office decisions. Would you really have been fine with McCarthy being fired before the start of the 2018 season based on feedback by the franchise quarterback???

the surgery decision was made after the season ended.
it is what it is. the discussion has grown tiresome.

It's not Rodgers' fault the media is talking about him not getting his knee surgically repaired.

stock? click bait? i consider the source(s) as you do. we both have eyes too. the eye test. we saw how he was last season. it's a carryover from 16 and 17, just a little worse. i want him to bounce back...believe me.

The Packers were a combined 12-2 after Rodgers declared they will run the table in 2016 and before he was injured in 2017 with him playing at an elite level. It's true he struggled last season for whatever reasons but stop acting as that has been going on for three seasons.
 
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XPack

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I don't feel the need for Rodgers being allowed to give feedback on front office decisions. Would you really have been fine with McCarthy being fired before the start of the 2018 season based on feedback by the franchise quarterback???

You are confusing feedback with decision making. Had AR12 given his feedback, the GM would have known of the rift between his QB and Coach. He would have investigated, heard both camps and made his own decision...which is how the process should go.

Again, we are not talking about every random front office decision. This is for a QB coach or even a Head Coach which has a very direct and personal impact to AR12.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I asked this question yesterday and nobody answered it. For all those thinking Rodgers needs to have more input/feedback into the decision making process, what other teams do/did that with their star players? Maybe it exists and I just haven't heard about it.

This feels like fans/media wanting to make a big deal out of nothing. Aaron Rodgers speaks honestly on his feelings about loosing his QB coach and Jordy and people jump to the conclusion that the only way to make him happy is to let him do what isn't being done elsewhere in the NFL (that I know of).

So please, someone give me the names of other NFL players who were afforded these things you think #12 should have.
 

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You are confusing feedback with decision making. Had AR12 given his feedback, the GM would have known of the rift between his QB and Coach. He would have investigated, heard both camps and made his own decision...which is how the process should go.

Again, we are not talking about every random front office decision. This is for a QB coach or even a Head Coach which has a very direct and personal impact to AR12.
but at the end of the day one guy was THE head coach. those are his decisions to make. I know what the end brought for MM and the rest of the team, there seemed to be a disconnect growing. But for much of the time here, MM had his finger on the pulse of the team and what it needed. He wasn't perfect, but as last year should have taught us, just because Rodgers is your QB doesn't mean everything is hunky dory either. Coaching has a lot more to do with it than most fans think.

But as it stands, we don't even know that it was MM's decision to send him packing. from most accounts he indicated the year previous he wasn't renewing his contract as he wanted to move up to a coordinator position. But for the sake of this argument, I'll pretend that wasn't true and he had every intention of signing a new contract and remaining the QB coach but MM decided it was not in the best interest of the team for him to remain so. At the end of the day it was his decision and he apparently had enough info to make the decision or he would have asked Rodgers for his input.

But I would say a HC that can't make a decision about his staff on his own isn't much of a HC. And what would be gained? a heads up? what for? hey, we're not re-signing your friend. what does that do? Rodgers SHOULD have known and prepared to have a different coach as his apparently good friend did NOT have a contract for the next season. He should have known it was a very real possibility that his coach did NOT want to sign an extension and his current contract ran out that it was a probability that he was going to be elsewhere.

But even if, what good is a conversation before hand? there is literally nothing Rodgers could do or say other than, if he goes, I go. in which case, we signed the wrong guy. Everyone seems to want to include Rodgers because he's so important. How important is he when he has zero say or influence over the final decision? In that case you're not really looking for input, you're just hoping for approval and if you don't get that, then you've made a player think he has a say and then made the decision against his wishes anyway. That doesn't do much for relationships either.
 

gbgary

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The Packers were a combined 12-2 after Rodgers declared they will run the table in 2016 and before he was injured in 2017 with him playing at an elite level. It's true he struggled last season for whatever reasons but stop acting as that has been going on for three seasons.
smh...i didn't. i said his struggles of the previous two years got worse in 2018. that's not the same thing.
 

gbgary

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I asked this question yesterday and nobody answered it. For all those thinking Rodgers needs to have more input/feedback into the decision making process, what other teams do/did that with their star players? Maybe it exists and I just haven't heard about it........
looks like pittsburg and ben...and look at the mess they're in.
 

Do7

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smh...i didn't. i said his struggles of the previous two years got worse in 2018. that's not the same thing.
Well to be fair he was coming off an injury, and imo I still think he was seeing phantoms and he wasn't 100% back mentally out of fear breaking his collarbone again.
 

PackAttack12

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So many are committing the ultimate football sin...

Never ever bet against Aaron Rodgers.

I don't know how many times he has to quiet the doubters before they learn.
 

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