Ted Thompson's coaching moves

[dxbfan]

Actually re reading it a bit your first post pretty much implies Thompson goes out an interviews coaches to fill the staff. That is not the case. McCarthy interviews the coaches and chooses his own staff. Thompson doesn't choose it for him. So credit Thompson with the McCarthy hire but credit McCarthy with guys on the coaching staff.

Whichever way, I think its fairly clear that TT is involved with the coaching moves that the team makes, whether simply as a stamp of approval, or as a sounding board to the HC or even in a more active capacity.

Perhaps had this thread been titled "Packers coaching moves" we might have had less debate but then what's the forum for if not debate? :wink:

Anyway I think the team's coaching moves last year could justifiably have been said to have raised some eyebrows and at times defied logic. For a team as young as the Packers, for a team in the midst of a rebuilding process as the Packers and for a team that has been a victim of its own coaching/GM mistakes you would expect that the team would look for stability and experience from its coaching staff and look not to make the same mistake twice (Schottenheimer). The fact that the coaching roster has seen significant churn, key positions such as the HC, OC, DC and now Asst. HC have all been people with no prior experience at that position is either a function of inexperience in assembling a winning coaching staff or part of a plan that rewards youth and potential over experience and proven capability.

 

[porky88]

Actually re reading it a bit your first post pretty much implies Thompson goes out an interviews coaches to fill the staff. That is not the case. McCarthy interviews the coaches and chooses his own staff. Thompson doesn't choose it for him. So credit Thompson with the McCarthy hire but credit McCarthy with guys on the coaching staff.

Whichever way, I think its fairly clear that TT is involved with the coaching moves that the team makes, whether simply as a stamp of approval, or as a sounding board to the HC or even in a more active capacity.

Source?

 

[Zero2Cool]

Actually re reading it a bit your first post pretty much implies Thompson goes out an interviews coaches to fill the staff. That is not the case. McCarthy interviews the coaches and chooses his own staff. Thompson doesn't choose it for him. So credit Thompson with the McCarthy hire but credit McCarthy with guys on the coaching staff.

Whichever way, I think its fairly clear that TT is involved with the coaching moves that the team makes, whether simply as a stamp of approval, or as a sounding board to the HC or even in a more active capacity.

Source?

 

[Cliff]

Ted Thompson can't "veto" a decision made by McCarthy for his staff.

Oh really, Ya wanna bet?

Bet what? :rollseyes:

How about you provide an article that backs up your point or an article stating a GM veto a staff hire by the Head Coach. I'm sure ESPN would have one in it's archives.

I thought a GM's veto power in regard to a HC's staff selections was common knowledge.

 

[Cliff]

I think this thread says a whole lot of nothing....

Wether or not Philbin will succeed remains to be seen? It remains to be seen wether or not Mike McCarthy himself will be successful. It remains to be seen wether or not Mike Sherman will be successful in Houston.

Do you know what Philbins responsibilities were before and what the OC's responsibilities in MM's system are right now? It's not that far of a stretch believe me. It was the right choice.

It was the right choice if you want to continue to experiement with inexperienced coaches. If a GM intends to get a job done then he should bring in experienced coaches.

We have heard a lot about how Ted Thompson wants to build his team via the draft but what are TT's objectives to where he wants to lead the Green Bay Packers.

 

[Cliff]

I'm having the same problem with the original post that some others are having. The implication of the original post is that Thompson hires the assistant coaches, which is not the case, regardless of whether or not he has "veto power."

I am not a professional writer but I did my best to get my point across. I apologize for misleading anyone.

Although in this particular case I think TT and MM are working very closely with respect to the coaching staff. Just MHO.

 

[porky88]

Ted Thompson can't "veto" a decision made by McCarthy for his staff.

Oh really, Ya wanna bet?

Bet what? :rollseyes:

How about you provide an article that backs up your point or an article stating a GM veto a staff hire by the Head Coach. I'm sure ESPN would have one in it's archives.

I thought a GM's veto power in regard to a HC's staff selections was common knowledge.

Find evidence to prove it is rather than something you might've just heard or misunderstood and I'll accept it. However I have NEVER heard of a coach not getting the job because the GM did not approve. Maybe the owner but never the GM.

 

[all about da packers]

It might be interesting to see how the whole saga in SD plays out, given that the Chargers GM and Marty have problems... Wonder if the GM there will look to bring his own guy at OC (one who could replace Marty) and thus veto other OC candidates brought up by Marty.

 

[Lare]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys think MM talked to TT about who he was going to hire as OC before he offered Philbin the job, or after he offered Philbin the job?





I thought so.

 

[Zero2Cool]

I don't get it.

 

[porky88]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys think MM talked to TT about who he was going to hire as OC before he offered Philbin the job, or after he offered Philbin the job?





I thought so.

What does that prove?

Absolutely nothing. I said as much in a different post. I'm sure McCarthy goes to Thompson for recommendations or guys he has worked with before to get input but it's not Thompson's final call on who gets the job. It's Mike McCarthy's.

Do you think Ted Thompson talks to Mike McCarthy about players? Heck Jim Bates spoke highly of Donald Lee and Thompson brought him in. That doesn't mean either or had control over what happen in the player personal department. Not at all. That’s Ted Thompson’s decision. Give credit to people when it’s due but also don’t give false credit.

 

[arrowgargantuan]

i think you guys are getting WAY too caught up in the details.

but on a purely contractual level, there are checks and balances in everything to prevent the worst case scenario from happening. before an MM hiring goes through, it has to be approved by somebody. no?

the GM has to be involved in the decisions regarding the coaching staff in order to effectively do his job. the level of involvement would vary from coach to coach. i would imagine a rookie head coach having more restrictions regarding personel hiring in his contract than say...a Gibbs, Schotty, etc.

i think the real argument here is the level of involvement, which can only be argued by the front office...but aside from that, rookie head coaches=short leash, contratually speaking!

 

[Cliff]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys think MM talked to TT about who he was going to hire as OC before he offered Philbin the job, or after he offered Philbin the job?

MM talked to TT before he offered Philbin the job.

 

[Cliff]

I'm sure McCarthy goes to Thompson for recommendations or guys he has worked with before to get input but it's not Thompson's final call on who gets the job. It's Mike McCarthy's.

WRONG!

Porky, post a link to prove you're right.

 

[porky88]

I'm sure McCarthy goes to Thompson for recommendations or guys he has worked with before to get input but it's not Thompson's final call on who gets the job. It's Mike McCarthy's.

WRONG!

Porky, post a link to prove you're right.

I bolded some of the stuff. Read through it if you'd like. Whatever the case might be, you were misinformed on the role of who is in charge of hiring the coaches on the staff.

Not once does it ever state that it's Ted Thompson's decision on who is on McCarthy's coaching staff. It's always up to McCarthy and in case of the last one Mike Sherman made the call to fire Schottenheimer and bring in Jim Bates.

Pro Football Weekly

Jan. 8, 2007

With his rookie coaching season under his belt, Packers head coach Mike McCarthy has elected to keep his first coaching administration intact. According to our sources, it appears defensive coordinator Bob Sanders and secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer, both of whom were on the hot seat at midseason, will stay on after the Packers rallied to finish in the middle of the pack in most defensive rankings. We’re told that the modest improvement overall, not to mention the possibility of bringing all 11 starters back on that side of the ball, played a role in Green Bay’s decision to stand pat on the defensive sideline. On the offensive side, however, McCarthy faces the task of replacing offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski, who departed for the Boston College head-coaching vacancy. While we hear the likelihood remains for an internal promotion — OL coach Joe Philbin or QB coach Tom Clements would be the front-runners — the Packers will interview candidates from outside the building, as well. Speculation has centered around those familiar with the Packers’ zone-blocking scheme, such as Broncos RB coach Bobby Turner, Cardinals OL coach Steve Loney and ex-Falcons assistants Greg Knapp, Bill Musgrave and Tom Cable.

Dec. 26, 2006

Despite losing their offensive coordinator after less than one year of service, we hear the Packers feel plenty capable of absorbing the loss of Jeff Jagodzinski to Boston College. Jagodzinski was brought in from Atlanta to implement Alex Gibbs’ famous zone-blocking scheme, and the team built its 2006 draft around that system. We’re told the Packers believe an adequate succession plan is in place because they have three offensive assistants with a firm O-line foundation. In fact, the early front-runner for the offensive coordinator vacancy may very well be OL coach Joe Philbin, who has also coached the tight ends in Green Bay — a background that has produced Andy Reid and Mike Sherman. McCarthy is also said to be fond of WR coach Jimmy Robinson. However, Robinson does not possess experience as a coordinator, while Philbin served in that role at various stops at the NCAA level.

Jan. 24, 2005

Updated at 2:20 p.m. EST, Jan. 25, 2005

With the firing of DB coach Kurt Schottenheimer came a warning shot from head coach Mike Sherman, and the next shoe to drop proved to be the replacement of defensive coordinator Bob Slowik with ex-Dolphins defensive coordinator and interim head coach Jim Bates. It was thought that Bates might have been holding out hope that more desirable positions would become available. However, with Sherman's contract expiring after the 2005 season, Bates is actually positioning himself pretty well for the future, especially after the admirable job he did as interim head coach of the Dolphins toward the end of the season. Schottenheimer was let go because of a lack of improvement in the secondary overall. The Packers set a team record with 33 TD passes allowed (plus four more in the postseason), gave up 65 passes of 20 yards or longer, and CBs Ahmad Carroll and Al Harris were called for a total of 26 penalties.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Not good enough. Let's have some audio and video with a certified watermark from the Packers and NFL.

Thanks.

 

[Cliff]

I'm sure McCarthy goes to Thompson for recommendations or guys he has worked with before to get input but it's not Thompson's final call on who gets the job. It's Mike McCarthy's.

WRONG!

Porky, post a link to prove you're right.

I bolded some of the stuff. Read through it if you'd like. Whatever the case might be, you were misinformed on the role of who is in charge of hiring the coaches on the staff.

Not once does it ever state that it's Ted Thompson's decision on who is on McCarthy's coaching staff. It's always up to McCarthy and in case of the last one Mike Sherman made the call to fire Schottenheimer and bring in Jim Bates.

Pro Football Weekly

Jan. 8, 2007

With his rookie coaching season under his belt, Packers head coach Mike McCarthy has elected to keep his first coaching administration intact. According to our sources, it appears defensive coordinator Bob Sanders and secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer, both of whom were on the hot seat at midseason, will stay on after the Packers rallied to finish in the middle of the pack in most defensive rankings. We’re told that the modest improvement overall, not to mention the possibility of bringing all 11 starters back on that side of the ball, played a role in Green Bay’s decision to stand pat on the defensive sideline. On the offensive side, however, McCarthy faces the task of replacing offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski, who departed for the Boston College head-coaching vacancy. While we hear the likelihood remains for an internal promotion — OL coach Joe Philbin or QB coach Tom Clements would be the front-runners — the Packers will interview candidates from outside the building, as well. Speculation has centered around those familiar with the Packers’ zone-blocking scheme, such as Broncos RB coach Bobby Turner, Cardinals OL coach Steve Loney and ex-Falcons assistants Greg Knapp, Bill Musgrave and Tom Cable.

Dec. 26, 2006

Despite losing their offensive coordinator after less than one year of service, we hear the Packers feel plenty capable of absorbing the loss of Jeff Jagodzinski to Boston College. Jagodzinski was brought in from Atlanta to implement Alex Gibbs’ famous zone-blocking scheme, and the team built its 2006 draft around that system. We’re told the Packers believe an adequate succession plan is in place because they have three offensive assistants with a firm O-line foundation. In fact, the early front-runner for the offensive coordinator vacancy may very well be OL coach Joe Philbin, who has also coached the tight ends in Green Bay — a background that has produced Andy Reid and Mike Sherman. McCarthy is also said to be fond of WR coach Jimmy Robinson. However, Robinson does not possess experience as a coordinator, while Philbin served in that role at various stops at the NCAA level.

Jan. 24, 2005

Updated at 2:20 p.m. EST, Jan. 25, 2005

With the firing of DB coach Kurt Schottenheimer came a warning shot from head coach Mike Sherman, and the next shoe to drop proved to be the replacement of defensive coordinator Bob Slowik with ex-Dolphins defensive coordinator and interim head coach Jim Bates. It was thought that Bates might have been holding out hope that more desirable positions would become available. However, with Sherman's contract expiring after the 2005 season, Bates is actually positioning himself pretty well for the future, especially after the admirable job he did as interim head coach of the Dolphins toward the end of the season. Schottenheimer was let go because of a lack of improvement in the secondary overall. The Packers set a team record with 33 TD passes allowed (plus four more in the postseason), gave up 65 passes of 20 yards or longer, and CBs Ahmad Carroll and Al Harris were called for a total of 26 penalties.

LMAO......are you for real??? That does not prove anything my friend.

 

[porky88]

LMAO......are you for real??? That does not prove anything my friend.

Still waiting on your valid information that states that it's Ted Thompson call on who is on the coaching staff.

Cardinals Coaching Changes

Arizona Cardinals' first-year coach Ken Whisenhunt is in the earliest stages of assembling his new staff, but has already taken steps to begin deconstructing the old one.

Funny that it says Cardinals Coach Ken Whisenhunt is in the earliest stages of assembling his new staff.

Rather than Cardinals General Manager Rod Graves...

Falcons Coaching Staff Changes

ATLANTA -- New Falcons coach Bobby Petrino unveiled most of
his coaching staff Tuesday, bringing along his brother from
Louisville and keeping three assistants who worked under former
coach Jim Mora.

Last week, Bobby Petrino reached deals with his top two
assistants. Hue Jackson, receivers coach for the Cincinnati
Bengals, will serve as offensive coordinator. Dallas defense
coordinator Mike Zimmer accepted the same post with the Falcon

No mention of Arthur Blank making the staff hires.

Also McCarthy always makes references to his respect for Marty Schottenheimer since he hired him back at Kansas City. Never makes references toward their General Manager at the time.

 

[refpacker]

I say we bring back Mike Holgrem....Give up whatever it takes......Seattle used to get beat like a red headed step child every week...then he takes them to the superbowl...Andy Reid, Jim Mora, Mike Sherman, John Gruden, and Steve Mariuchi have all said he is the best coach they have ever known...

 

[Bruce]

This is turning into a mountain over a molehill.

Ted Thompson has been quite clear that he does not believe in micro-management and that he believes that it is critical that he leave coaching decisions including assembly of staff up to the Head Coach -- who he then evaluates and holds accountable. There are multiple quotes that one could pull up, but I am not being gopher to this silly debate.

I think Ted has more growing into the job to do, but this is an area he has right.

Ultimately the GM does have veto power -- he can fire the head coach, but that does not mean that he sets his HC up by trying to do his job.

Frankly, I wish TT would give MM the feedback that he would like to see him be bolder with his hires, but in no way tell him who to pick.

GM's can get involved as a measure of last resort -- which TT is nowhere near at this point. That usually has more to do with firing someone on the staff than who to hire. An example in this case would be if TT thought MM needed to focus more on his overall responsibilities and told him his job depended upon turning the offense over to a competent and experienced offensive coordinator. But this clearly did not happen.


Commenting on the hire specifically -- my disappointment is not an indictment against Philbin. He is a fine man and will fill the role of psuedo offensive coordinator playing 2nd fiddle to MM who really holds the job.

Don't get me wrong, that is MM perogotive as head coach, but it is not how I think teams best operate -- esp. first time head coaches who have not exactly ripped up the league in their previous tenure as offensive coordinator.

Philbin said McCarthy asked him during the interview process what he could bring to the offense, and Philbin broke it down rather simply.

"The three things I hope we accomplish here as long as I'm the coordinator are, number one, that we play fundamentally sound," Philbin said. "Number two, that we're tough, and number three, that we're smart.

Yes, that sounds good, but of course what would one expect him to say: we will be reckless dumb whimps???

Philbin is a fine man, but I guess I was hoping for someone with a bit more experience -- Philbin held the dual position of offensive coordinator and offensive line coach at Allegheny College (1990-93), Northeastern University (1995-96) and Harvard (1997-98). Not exactly football hotbeds.

Oh well, no sense crying over spilled milk. Congratulations Joe and Winston, I wish you nothing but success.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[longtimefan]

As always Bruce very nicely said..

But a few things you mentioned stuck out.

"first time head coaches who have not exactly ripped up the league in their previous tenure as offensive coordinator."

I am sure you are aware of the offenses Mike ran in New Orleans over the years he was there. But then again recent memory seems to always prevail when talking about someone. In this case it would be his time in Frisco.

"Philbin said McCarthy asked him during the interview process what he could bring to the offense, and Philbin broke it down rather simply.

"The three things I hope we accomplish here as long as I'm the coordinator are, number one, that we play fundamentally sound," Philbin said. "Number two, that we're tough, and number three, that we're smart.

Yes, that sounds good, but of course what would one expect him to say: we will be reckless dumb whimps???"

Who is really knows what the other guys that had interviews said..Maybe if they were asked the same question they tossed something out there that scared Mike away.

With that said it still was an excellent piece!

 

[dxbfan]

Whichever way, I think its fairly clear that TT is involved with the coaching moves that the team makes, whether simply as a stamp of approval, or as a sounding board to the HC or even in a more active capacity.

Source?

For whatever it's worth:

"Notebook: Who'll coordinate offense?

McCarthy, Thompson aren't saying much about candidates

By Pete Dougherty
[email protected]


It's unclear whether Green Bay Packers coach Mike McCarthy is seriously considering going outside the organization to hire an offensive coordinator.


McCarthy and General Manager Ted Thompson have discussed candidates for the job, but Thompson wouldn't comment on those talks.

Notebook: Who'll coordinate offense?

 

[porky88]

Whichever way, I think its fairly clear that TT is involved with the coaching moves that the team makes, whether simply as a stamp of approval, or as a sounding board to the HC or even in a more active capacity.

Source?

For whatever it's worth:

"Notebook: Who'll coordinate offense?

McCarthy, Thompson aren't saying much about candidates

By Pete Dougherty
[email protected]


It's unclear whether Green Bay Packers coach Mike McCarthy is seriously considering going outside the organization to hire an offensive coordinator.


McCarthy and General Manager Ted Thompson have discussed candidates for the job, but Thompson wouldn't comment on those talks.

Notebook: Who'll coordinate offense?

Bruce said it best. I guess you could say he has "veto" power in he can fire McCarthy and bring in a different coach all together whom would bring in his own coaching staff but Thompson does not make the call on who gets jobs on the coaching staff. That’s McCarthy’s call.

In your source you missed valid quotes as well such as

It's unclear whether Green Bay Packers coach Mike McCarthy is seriously considering going outside the organization to hire an offensive coordinator.

If McCarthy goes outside the organization, possible candidates include Bill Musgrave, who is the lame-duck quarterbacks coach for Atlanta. Musgrave just finished his first season with the Falcons, who on Monday fired coach Jim Mora. The Falcons have run the zone scheme the past three years.

That article is clearly stating that McCarthy gets to make the hire and not Ted Thompson. I know I'm sounding pessimistic about this but I honestly think people need to know who exactly controls what and who deserves credit for what. Remember it’s the Mike Holmgrem coaching tree. Not the Ron Wolf coaching tree.

McCarthy made the hire of Bob Sanders, Winston Moss, Jago, and now Philibin. Ted Thompson might've played a role in providing his input but McCarthy was the guy who went through the interview process with the candidates. As much as was stated in the quotes Bruce provided.

 

[dxbfan]

Like you Porky, I dont subscribe to the view that TT calls the shots when it comes to coaching decisions and decides who gets the coaching job. I do however think he has views and expresses them to MM. I do also think that while MM doesnt blindly follow TT's suggestions he is likely to consider them. Whether or not those views are for a particular individual or against.