Taysom Hill

[Pokerbrat2000]

No way. It should have been obvious when they didn't give him any snaps in favor of Bridgewater. Some people still persisted that he really is a quarterback. Now they're signing Winston. They're telling you what they think. And he's going into his age 30 season. He's not some developmental kid. He is who he is.

If Rodgers gets hurt in preseason and the Packers go out and sign a vet and start him ahead of Love, does that mean they do not see Love as a potential starter in the future?

If Sean Payton can't convince you and this contract extension can't at least tell you that the Saints are still unsure of what they have in Hill as a future starter, I don't know what to tell you. But I would hate it if the Packers were paying Tremon Smith that same amount of money in 2021, just because he had a season that saw him gain 350 yards from scrimmage.

 

[Dantés]

If Rodgers gets hurt in preseason and the Packers go out and sign a vet and start him ahead of Love, does that mean they do not see Love as a potential starter in the future?

If it's 2023, and Love is in his 4th NFL season, and they sign a veteran to start in front of him, then yes-- that means that they don't see Love as a potential starter in the future.

 

[Dantés]

BTW, when Love is entering his 4th NFL season, he will be 24 years old (not 30).

 

[gopkrs]

If Rodgers gets hurt in preseason and the Packers go out and sign a vet and start him ahead of Love, does that mean they do not see Love as a potential starter in the future?

If Sean Payton can't convince you and this contract extension can't at least tell you that the Saints are still unsure of what they have in Hill as a future starter, I don't know what to tell you. But I would hate it if the Packers were paying Tremon Smith that same amount of money in 2021, just because he had a season that saw him gain 350 yards from scrimmage.

If Rodgers gets hurt; I hope they don't play Love. But the fans will be screaming for him if we lose a game. It just sounds like, unless you can really protect him, Love needs to wait. Even the 2nd year I would want him sitting but I could see him playing then if that was the situation.

 

[gopkrs]

I looked back to see this was a thread on Hill. Seems like a lot of money to give him. I guess they plan to use him at QB in some situations to throw or run. More than last year with probably more throws. Hell I'm just guessing because it seems like a lot of money.

 

[Heyjoe4]

No. But it's 21M over two seasons, not per season.

Thanks Dantes. I knew it was a 2 year deal, but even at $10.5 mil year, that’s a lot for a gadget player. I saw Hill used creatively and do some interesting things, just not worth that kind of money.

Looking ahead, if a guy like Hill with a TD or maybe 2 or 3 gets $10.5 mil/year, then what is a guy like Aaron Jones worth with 19 total TDs in 2019? I know I’m changing the subject, but maybe that’s why GB drafted Dillon. IF there is a season and IF Jones performs anywhere close to last year, he’s gonna be looking for $13 to $15 mil/year.

I don’t get it anymore, how the money works in the NFL. Right place, right time I guess.

 

[GleefulGary]

If Rodgers gets hurt in preseason and the Packers go out and sign a vet and start him ahead of Love, does that mean they do not see Love as a potential starter in the future?

If Sean Payton can't convince you and this contract extension can't at least tell you that the Saints are still unsure of what they have in Hill as a future starter, I don't know what to tell you. But I would hate it if the Packers were paying Tremon Smith that same amount of money in 2021, just because he had a season that saw him gain 350 yards from scrimmage.

Is Taysom Hill a rookie?

If they think of Hill as the franchise QB of the future, why sign Winston? Hill isn't exactly young...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

BTW, when Love is entering his 4th NFL season, he will be 24 years old (not 30).

So Hill's age is a reason why you don't think he should possibly be viewed as a future potential option as a starting QB by Payton and the Saints? How old were Kurt Warner and Warren Moon when their careers in the NFL took off?

Looking ahead, if a guy like Hill with a TD or maybe 2 or 3 gets $10.5 mil/year, then what is a guy like Aaron Jones worth with 19 total TDs in 2019? I know I’m changing the subject, but maybe that’s why GB drafted Dillon. IF there is a season and IF Jones performs anywhere close to last year, he’s gonna be looking for $13 to $15 mil/year.
I don’t get it anymore, how the money works in the NFL. Right place, right time I guess.

You really aren't changing the subject. First you should actually know his real stats, since people are throwing around "350 yds.", which I assumed to be correct, but is pretty far off.

2019 Rushing: 206 yds, 1 TD
2019 Receiving: 288 yds, 7 TDS
2019 Passing: 105 yds
2019 Return: 12 yds
Snap Count: 528

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillTa00.htm

Throw in that he played on special teams and you start to get a picture of what the guy is to the Saints. I also don't think its being accurate to straight up compare his stats to a RB, a WR or a QB, since his skill set isn't just one position. If you watched the Saints, many of his plays are what I would term big plays, resulting in first downs (28) or TD's (8).

Anyway, view him how you want, it is pretty obvious to me that at $11.5 M+/year for 2 seasons, Sean Payton and the Saints view him as a pretty valuable player.

 

[Dantés]

So Hill's age is a reason why you don't think he should possibly be viewed as a future potential option as a starting QB by Payton and the Saints? How old were Kurt Warner and Warren Moon when their careers in the NFL took off?

It's one of them!

Kurt Warner had 43 starts, 939/1403, 12,651 yards, 98 TD by the time he finished his age 30 season.

Warren Moon had 45 starts, 715/1315, 9,536 yards, 40 TD by the time he finished his age 30 season.

Generously, Hill will finish his age 30 season around 16/33 for 250 yards and maybe 1 TD on zero starts.

I like you Poker, and I respect you generally, but on this particular topic I think you've lost your senses when you make a comparison like that.

 

[GleefulGary]

Kurt Warner and Warren Moon are pretty terrible comparisons as far as situations.

Moon played for 6 years in the CFL prior to his NFL career, started the entirety of at least 5 of those, and twice passed for over 5000 yards. His age 30 season was his 3rd year starting in the NFL.

Warner started a couple years in the AFL, started a year in Amsterdam with NFL Europe (oh how I miss it). His age 30 season was his 3rd year of starting in the NFL.

Coming into his age 30 season, Taysom Hill has thrown 13 NFL passes. He has thrown less passes than Warner and Moon had starts, by a long shot.

Who was the last successful QB that hadn't been a starter by the time they're 30? And do we expect Hill's game to improve as he ages? His athleticism, the most important part of his game, will only decline as he ages.

But all of this is a moot point. If they thought of him as the successor, there is absolutely NO WAY that they sign Jameis Winston. I'm not sure what more proof people need.

 

[Dantés]

Kurt Warner and Warren Moon are pretty terrible comparisons as far as situations.

Moon played for 6 years in the CFL prior to his NFL career, started the entirety of at least 5 of those, and twice passed for over 5000 yards. His age 30 season was his 3rd year starting in the NFL.

Warner started a couple years in the AFL, started a year in Amsterdam with NFL Europe (oh how I miss it). His age 30 season was his 3rd year of starting in the NFL.

Coming into his age 30 season, Taysom Hill has thrown 13 NFL passes. He has thrown less passes than Warner and Moon had starts, by a long shot.

Who was the last successful QB that hadn't been a starter by the time they're 30? And do we expect Hill's game to improve as he ages? His athleticism, the most important part of his game, will only decline as he ages.

But all of this is a moot point. If they thought of him as the successor, there is absolutely NO WAY that they sign Jameis Winston. I'm not sure what more proof people need.

The closest thing would be Steve Young. Which... lol if that comparison is made.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's one of them!

Kurt Warner had 43 starts, 939/1403, 12,651 yards, 98 TD by the time he finished his age 30 season.

Warren Moon had 45 starts, 715/1315, 9,536 yards, 40 TD by the time he finished his age 30 season.

Generously, Hill will finish his age 30 season around 16/33 for 250 yards and maybe 1 TD on zero starts.

I like you Poker, and I respect you generally, but on this particular topic I think you've lost your senses when you make a comparison like that.

My point was, that you seem fixated on the fact that Taysom Hill came into the NFL at the age of 27 and for you, that seems to somehow preclude him from every developing into a starting NFL QB. So what, he turns 30 in August, how does that exactly prevent him from becoming a starter? Warner was signed by the Packers at 22 and didn't see his first NFL start until 6 years later, he was 28, he played until he was 38. Moon, started playing in the CFL at 21 and didn't get his first NFL start until 6 years later, at the age of 27, he retired at the age of 44. First, people were saying Hill will never make it due to all the injuries he sustained in college, 3 seasons later and no major injuries, now its his age stopping him? Tell me exactly why he can't be a starter due to his age.

I like you too Dantes, and I respect you generally, but on this particular topic I think you've lost your senses when you want to use age as a reason why a player can't make it.

I will end yet another discussion (on my part) about Hill, with what I said in a previous post:

"View him however you want, it is pretty obvious to me that at $11.5 M+/year for 2 years with $16 M guaranteed, Sean Payton and the Saints view him as a pretty valuable player"

 

[OldSchool101]

If Rodgers gets hurt; I hope they don't play Love. But the fans will be screaming for him if we lose a game. It just sounds like, unless you can really protect him, Love needs to wait. Even the 2nd year I would want him sitting but I could see him playing then if that was the situation.

Love wouldn’t be the only rookie QB with a 1st round grade getting playing time. That hold true for just about every season. I’d be totally ok with him playing if Rodgers went down because that’s how you learn. He’d probably be handing the ball off quite a bit in that scenario either way, so I’m not sure why your so scared to see him line up.

If it was long term (such as an IR destination) GB would likely also sign a veteran and analyze the scenario week to week.

 

[Dantés]

My point was, that you seem fixated on the fact that Taysom Hill came into the NFL at the age of 27 and for you, that seems to somehow preclude him from every developing into a starting NFL QB. So what, he turns 30 in August, how does that exactly prevent him from becoming a starter? Warner was signed by the Packers at 23 and didn't see his first NFL start until 7 years later, he was 28, he played until he was 38. Moon, started playing in the CFL at 21 and didn't get his first NFL start until 6 years later, at the age of 27, he retired at the age of 44. First, people were saying Hill will never make it due to all the injuries he sustained in college, 3 seasons later and no major injuries, now its his age stopping him? Tell me exactly why he can't be a starter due to his age.

I like you too Dantes, and I respect you generally, but on this particular topic I think you've lost your senses when you want to use age as a reason why a player won't make it.

I will end yet another discussion (on my part) about Hill, with what I said in a previous post:

"View him however you want, it is pretty obvious to me that at $11.5 M+/year for 2 years with $16 M guaranteed, Sean Payton and the Saints view him as a pretty valuable player"

He came out at 27 needing a lot of development if he was every going to play QB at this level. At 29, he wasn't considered far enough along in that development to play in relief of an injured Brees. Per the Winston signing, he isn't considered far enough along in that development at 30 either. The idea that a player is going to finally click and start playing starting quarterback at age 31 is crazy to me. He's entering year 4 and the Saints are telling us that they don't even trust him to be the QB2! He's a weapon, not a quarterback.

I will end my part of the discussion with my own quote from a previous post:

"...they do value him a lot as a gadget in their offense."

We agree that they consider him quite valuable! You just think that he's a potential starting quarterback down the line, and I do not.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You just think that he's a potential starting quarterback down the line, and I do not.

I agree with everything except change this to.....I believe he has the potential to be a starting QB down the line. Subtle difference, but there is a difference.

 

[gopkrs]

Love wouldn’t be the only rookie QB with a 1st round grade getting playing time. That hold true for just about every season. I’d be totally ok with him playing if Rodgers went down because that’s how you learn. He’d probably be handing the ball off quite a bit in that scenario either way, so I’m not sure why your so scared to see him line up.

If it was long term (such as an IR destination) GB would likely also sign a veteran and analyze the scenario week to week.

To answer why I am "scared" to play him is only that I don't want to wreck his potential by putting him out there before he is ready. Who knows how many young QBs have been ruined by playing too soon. Answer...nobody knows but many think it happens. And him coming from a small school with probably lousy coaching. I mean, I read they were having him call plays the 2nd half of the season. I don't want him to lose his confidence. Would like Love to sit at least until the 2nd year. Hopefully, it is something that won't have to be considered.

 

[OldSchool101]

To answer why I am "scared" to play him is only that I don't want to wreck his potential by putting him out there before he is ready. Who knows how many young QBs have been ruined by playing too soon. Answer...nobody knows but many think it happens. And him coming from a small school with probably lousy coaching. I mean, I read they were having him call plays the 2nd half of the season. I don't want him to lose his confidence. Would like Love to sit at least until the 2nd year. Hopefully, it is something that won't have to be considered.

He’ll be fine. Love will have every opportunity to prove himself over several seasons simply because of the collateral spent there round 1. Sometimes getting thrown to the fire is the best thing. There’s only 3 outcomes. You either excel, you realize you need to work harder or you give up. There’s a 66.7% chance you get better than you would’ve been from that experience by default

 

[gopkrs]

He’ll be fine. Love will have every opportunity to prove himself over several seasons simply because of the collateral spent there round 1. Sometimes getting thrown to the fire is the best thing. There’s only 3 outcomes. You either excel, you realize you need to work harder or you give up. There’s a 66.7% chance you get better than you would’ve been from that experience by default

Where did you come up with those numbers and possibilities? You don't really have to answer. We just disagree as what is best.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

Had to come back here for a laugh

 

[thequick12]

None of this changes the fact that he would have been useful to the Packers even if only on special teams he still would have been a nice role player...they shouldn't of cut him at the time they did

Now give him what the saints gave him no way but keep him for as long as you can on the cheap and then either trade him or get a comp pick for him, definitely

 

[Dantés]

None of this changes the fact that he would have been useful to the Packers even if only on special teams he still would have been a nice role player...they shouldn't of cut him at the time they did

Now give him what the saints gave him no way but keep him for as long as you can on the cheap and then either trade him or get a comp pick for him, definitely

This whole conversation is basically premature because we need to see what they do with him next year.

But that said, let's just take this scenario on its own terms, and say that he would have been a useful special teamer and nothing else.

Can you even begin to wrap your head around this much discussion, debate, and argument circulating around the release of a good ST cover guy??

 

[thequick12]

This whole conversation is basically premature because we need to see what they do with him next year.

But that said, let's just take this scenario on its own terms, and say that he would have been a useful special teamer and nothing else.

Can you even begin to wrap your head around this much discussion, debate, and argument circulating around the release of a good ST cover guy??

Well that's not exactly what I meant haha. He clearly would have been more useful than just a guy who makes tackles on special teams...but an heir apparent to Rodgers at qb, I can agree that there's no way on that one

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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Chalk one up for those who felt it was smart of the Packers to cut him. But I expect you back here after every game, whether Hill has a stinker like he had last night or a real solid game, as he has had on several occasions.

Also, I misreported his deal in another thread. It was a 2 year deal for $21 million with $16 million guaranteed and another $1M in possible incentive pay, the average annual salary is $10.5 million.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Can you even begin to wrap your head around this much discussion, debate, and argument circulating around the release of a good ST cover guy??

I present to you the Jeff Janis thread.....

 

[Dantés]

I present to you the Jeff Janis thread.....

RIGHT?!