Studs n duds Oakland

[Mondio]

when he first got here, he had to double clutch a lot of his catches too, they weren't clean. He's obviously gotten better. What has impressed me more is his pass blocking, he's come a long ways there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

when he first got here, he had to double clutch a lot of his catches too, they weren't clean. He's obviously gotten better. What has impressed me more is his pass blocking, he's come a long ways there.

Agreed. I will admit I was skeptical about Jones. Some of that skepticism came off the heels of Ty Montgomery. I wasn't sure if his rushing yards weren't being overblown by the fact that defenses were more concerned about Rodgers and not respecting the run game or they were being picked up due to Jones being a decent back. So far this season, I would say the later is true. Him becoming a receiving threat, as well as a decent blocker has turned AJ into a very reliable weapon. Props to TT for finding him and the Packer organization for developing him into what we see today.

 

[gopkrs]

Not sure the Packers developed him. He was a very good runner in college. I think the only thing Texas El Paso had. And they only threw to him a couple times a game. What is see is the O line doing a good job of getting to the 2nd level. Sometimes they even let go of the 1st man a bit too quickly. Jenkins has helped a lot but I think they are all thinking more about the 2nd level.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not sure the Packers developed him. He was a very good runner in college. I think the only thing Texas El Paso had. And they only threw to him a couple times a game. What is see is the O line doing a good job of getting to the 2nd level. Sometimes they even let go of the 1st man a bit too quickly. Jenkins has helped a lot but I think they are all thinking more about the 2nd level.

I wasn't trying to take anything away from Jones, he was talented coming out of college, but 5th round talented. I think it was a combination of him improving his skills, as well as the Packers sticking with him and improving things around him through coaching and player acquisition.

 

[gopkrs]

I wasn't responding to your post. But I have heard a pundit or two say they thought that what he did at Texas El Paso deserved a better draft position. Probably did not get it because I don't think Texas El Paso was very good and maybe does not play in a big time conference. I think Aaron was really all they had.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I wasn't responding to your post. But I have heard a pundit or two say they thought that what he did at Texas El Paso deserved a better draft position. Probably did not get it because I don't think Texas El Paso was very good and maybe does not play in a big time conference. I think Aaron was really all they had.

I just reread a few Scouting Reports on AJ coming out of College. Seems like the common theme was "Could develop into a reliable 3 down back, but.....injuries/durability, competition he faced and lack of top end speed were concerns".

TT and the Packers scouts obviously liked what they saw and kudos, they might have hit gold in TT's final draft. With Williams playing good, King staying healthy and playing well, the 2017 draft class has come back a bit from what was beginning to look like a pretty bad one.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not sure the Packers developed him. He was a very good runner in college. I think the only thing Texas El Paso had. And they only threw to him a couple times a game.

There are a ton of good runners in college, most of them never make it in the NFL. In addition you have to realize Jones wasn't regarded as a prime recruit out of high school either, otherwise he wouldn't have ended up playing for UTEP.

 

[gopkrs]

There are a ton of good runners in college, most of them never make it in the NFL. In addition you have to realize Jones wasn't regarded as a prime recruit out of high school either, otherwise he wouldn't have ended up playing for UTEP.

Well that's the art, isn't it. To pick the ones that are not just good in college, but actually have pro potential. Why don't you just admit you were way off base saying basically that he could not catch.

 

[Poppa San]

Well that's the art, isn't it. To pick the ones that are not just good in college, but actually have pro potential. Why don't you just admit you were way off base saying basically that he could not catch.

Lastly, I'm happy that I was wrong about Jones as a receiver as the Packers hugely benefit from him excelling as a pass catcher as well.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Why don't you just admit you were way off base saying basically that he could not catch.

See Poppa's post above. Unlike many others around here I don't have any issue admitting that I was wrong.

 

[AmishMafia]

See Poppa's post above. Unlike many others around here I don't have any issue admitting that I was wrong.

The bigger man.

I hope I can be as well, if I should ever actually be wrong about something.

 

[Poppa San]

The bigger man.

I hope I can be as well, if I should ever actually be wrong about something.

I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The bigger man.

I hope I can be as well, if I should ever actually be wrong about something.

I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong.

I have been incorrect often in my life, but never wrong.

 

[gopkrs]

Yeah, I was beating a dead horse. Now about Cousins...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah, I was beating a dead horse. Now about Cousins...

Cousins hugely benefits from the Vikings run game buying him more time (his 3.05 seconds per attempt is by far the highest number among all qualified QBs) as well as an elite receiving corps not forcing him to be aggressive (only Brees being even less aggressive according to Next Gen Stats, which tracks the amount of passing attempts a quarterback makes that are into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion. AGG is shown as a % of attempts into tight windows over all passing attempts).

While he has put up decent numbers especially over the past few weeks I don't believe he will be able to carry the Vikings on his back if forced to.

This time you better hope I'm right about it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This time you better hope I'm right about it.

Touché and well played!

 

[gopkrs]

Yes, of course. Just saying he can throw the ball pretty well. When he is on...he is tough. Brees not being aggressive does not sound right. Maybe he just does not have to throw into tight coverage. I don't think he shies away from it when he needs to.

 

[OldSchool101]

The bigger man.
I hope I can be as well, if I should ever actually be wrong about something.

Funny... A girlfriend once told me (generally speaking) I was “just so wrong”. Not sure what that meant!
Anyway. Please don’t be wrong Amish. You inspire me to be a better version of myself. Because realistically speaking.. who else could I be but myself?

 

[AmishMafia]

. . . Because realistically speaking.. who else could I be but myself?

My mom always taught me I could be anyone I wanted to be. Turns out, the police call this identity theft.


I miss the 'random thoughts' thread.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, of course. Just saying he can throw the ball pretty well. When he is on...he is tough. Brees not being aggressive does not sound right. Maybe he just does not have to throw into tight coverage. I don't think he shies away from it when he needs to.

You can take a look at the numbers here:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

 

[gopkrs]

You can take a look at the numbers here:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

Not sure of the significance of that stat. It could just mean that his receivers are more open. Whereas other teams not so much. Someone like Rodgers might shy away from contested throws. I guess Cousins has the highest rating thus far according to nextgen. It helps to have open receivers. And time. Football is truly a team sport. Not always easy to make point blank statements about players. There are so many variables. Like teammates. Haven't seen a lot of him but Bell seems like an average back this year. Is that because he is not the same player or... Stats alone don't normally say it all. True correlations are difficult to know imo. That's not to say that some players will not obviously stand out. Stats are important but not always at face value. The true correlations of them are the thing. imho And those can be very messy when evaluating an individual player. Just wanted to talk about statistics.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The two years Jones was healthy and starting in college, he caught 28 and 30 balls.

The idea he wasn't good at catching the ball coming out of college is a fallacy.

He's clearly improved, but he had the ability. MM just never used it.

28 or 30 is not very many. He caught 26 balls last year in 12 games. Same thing.

His route running has obviously improved from last season. He smoother and more in control at the point of the catch which translates to YAC. He had that big drop but bounced back, which is big. A lot of what goes into all this is confidence that comes from experience.

 

[greengold]

Funny... A girlfriend once told me (generally speaking) I was “just so wrong”. Not sure what that meant!
Anyway. Please don’t be wrong Amish. You inspire me to be a better version of myself. Because realistically speaking.. who else could I be but myself?

I once knew this couple that had gotten married. Her last name was So. His last name was Wong. It didn't last. True story.

We used to love saying, "Is that so wong???!!!!!" Guess it was, for a while...???...

---

Pokerbrat2000, you mentioned the last TT draft. Wouldn't all of us love to know exactly how that one went down? Was the GM transfer of power in essence already occurring? Or, was Ted doing his own thing in his last hurrah? I'd love to know the dynamics of that, and how much of a hand Gutekunst had in that one, and how differently it might have been had Gutes been in charge... someday, that ought to make a great book.

Man, going back, so many of those Mike Sherman and Ted Thompson drafts, not taking anything away from Ted, but, I'd find myself going, "WHAT THE WHAT???? WHO???"

And then, sometimes, it could be SO disappointing, once the confusion subsided... having to look them up. Who is Nick Barnett? Who is Kenny Peterson? Ahmad Carroll? Derrick Sherrod? Who is Nick Perry? Wait..., Datone Jones???

Hard Right Edge! Guess who was taken immediately after Datone for a good laugh. LMAO

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Pokerbrat2000, you mentioned the last TT draft. Wouldn't all of us love to know exactly how that one went down? Was the GM transfer of power in essence already occurring? Or, was Ted doing his own thing in his last hurrah? I'd love to know the dynamics of that, and how much of a hand Gutekunst had in that one, and how differently it might have been had Gutes been in charge... someday, that ought to make a great book.

Oh I think the 2017 draft was still all TT. He stuck around as GM that entire season and was named senior advisor to football operations in Jan. 2018. Gute took over after that and I think most would consider the 2018 draft as Gute's first.

As far as a "TT Book", I have brought that up many times in the last 5 or so years and would buy one. However, he is a pretty quiet and unassuming guy, I doubt we will ever have the pleasure of reading his full story, at least one written by Ted.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not sure of the significance of that stat. It could just mean that his receivers are more open. Whereas other teams not so much. Someone like Rodgers might shy away from contested throws. I guess Cousins has the highest rating thus far according to nextgen.

The numbers suggest that Cousins hasn't been forced to throw into tight coverages for whatever reasons. That has definitely helped his performance.

I'm still convinced that he won't be able to carry the Vikings on his back if forced to.

As a side note, Next Gen Stats doesn't provide a passer rating on its own. Cousins is second in the league behind Wilson in the traditional one at this point though.