Studs n duds Oakland

[DarkHelmet]

Studs:

Rodgers, obviously. Accuracy and decision-making were excellent. I think the new scheme is part of it, but I also think being healthy makes a huge difference. He just hasn't been physically right the last two years. Now he looks like he's basically back to pre-second-collar-bone form.

Lafleur, Hackett. Excellent game plan on offense.

All of the offense. Everybody contributed.

Duds:

Martinez. He's had some great games. This wasn't one of them. Out of position, slow, hesitant and just a liability. Obviously, we don't have anybody better or they'd be playing. If he's playing hurt we can hope things will improve. Otherwise the scheme has to be adjusted to minimize his limitations until such time as he improves or we can acquire an upgrade.

Pass defense in general. There were way too many blown assignments. Hard to know who blew it on any given play, but it was a freakin' mess several times. Carr is accurate and Waller appears to be the real deal, but even so, guys should not be that open. There were a couple of catches where the nearest defender had to be a minimum 15 yards away. Can't let that happen, especially multiple times. Getting Savage back will help.

Auxiliary dud: Lions for not knocking off the Vikings in Detroit. With the Bears looking abysmal on offense, the Vikes are shaping up to be our main competitor for the division. Would have been nice for Detroit to take care of business at home.

Great win, overall.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think the problems we saw were mostly from linebacker and Redmond.

This will actually shock you that I gave you an agree.
I don’t know if it was a slip up, but you said “linebacker” singular. Nothing further from the truth. We have 1 decent LB in the middle and 1 other newbie used as a plug. we need at least 2 decent LinebackerS. Maybe 3. In particular we need a formidable LB in coverage that is also good at shedding blocks and attacking downhill on running plays.

 

[Ceodore]

Didn't see the game but was surprised to see so many people calling Martinez a dud because about 30 seconds before coming to this thread I saw a post by the Packers on FB saying how he had a career high 16 tackles and currently leads the league in tackles. In fact seeing the post made me think to come over here. "Oh, Martinez must have had a good game, let's go see the studs and duds." lol.

What's the disconnect?

 

[AmishMafia]

Didn't see the game but was surprised to see so many people calling Martinez a dud because about 30 seconds before coming to this thread I saw a post by the Packers on FB saying how he had a career high 16 tackles and currently leads the league in tackles. In fact seeing the post made me think to come over here. "Oh, Martinez must have had a good game, let's go see the studs and duds." lol.

What's the disconnect?

He isn't as proactive out there as most would like. Should be aggressively shooting his gap, but often let's the play come to him. Although he is getting the tackle, the RB is picking up 7 yards in the process. He makes plays occasionally, so I'm not giving up on him. He can do it, he just needs to do it much more often.

 

[Mondio]

Didn't see the game but was surprised to see so many people calling Martinez a dud because about 30 seconds before coming to this thread I saw a post by the Packers on FB saying how he had a career high 16 tackles and currently leads the league in tackles. In fact seeing the post made me think to come over here. "Oh, Martinez must have had a good game, let's go see the studs and duds." lol.

What's the disconnect?

besides shoving a QB out of bounds, do you remember a single play he made yesterday? 13 forgettable tackles. I remember a few whiffs that's for sure. Whiffs shouldn't outnumber memorable plays. I'm floored they have 13 tackles attached to his name because I don't remember him doing anything besides chasing down a QB 1 play and a tackle on a pass play.

 

[DarkHelmet]

Didn't see the game but was surprised to see so many people calling Martinez a dud because about 30 seconds before coming to this thread I saw a post by the Packers on FB saying how he had a career high 16 tackles and currently leads the league in tackles. In fact seeing the post made me think to come over here. "Oh, Martinez must have had a good game, let's go see the studs and duds." lol.

What's the disconnect?

It's a paradox. Yes, I saw that he leads the NFL in tackles. I can only say by eye test yesterday some of the big gains correlated with Martinez looking like he was out of position or too slow to the play. Maybe others were blowing their assignments. Hard to tell.

 

[Dantés]

Didn't see the game but was surprised to see so many people calling Martinez a dud because about 30 seconds before coming to this thread I saw a post by the Packers on FB saying how he had a career high 16 tackles and currently leads the league in tackles. In fact seeing the post made me think to come over here. "Oh, Martinez must have had a good game, let's go see the studs and duds." lol.

What's the disconnect?

That volume tackle numbers don't mean anything.

 

[Scotland Yard]

I would respectfully disagree. You can blame it on the other 10 guys, but he has not shown anything in the way of being able to do much returning the ball. On punts, he continues to fair catch, with a lot of room left to run. On kickoffs, he might as well just let the ball go into the end zone and down it. Two straight games of getting nothing past the 25 and quite a few short of the 20. Give #12 the ball on the 25, stop risking penalties or fumbles....or even better, lets find someone that can potentially break one, instead of just running straight up the middle into the oncoming tacklers.

Return Stats today:

Shepherd: 4 KO returns: 60 yds. (15/punt ave)
2 punt returns: 0 yards.

Davis: 2 KO returns: 49 yds. (24.5/punt ave)
2 Punt returns: 47 yds.


2019 Stats for Shepherd:

• 9 KO returns: 147 yds (16.34 yds ave.)
• 4 Punt returns: -9 yds (-2.25 ave) 1 fumble.

Suggested cutting Shepherd last week, got slapped down in these forums as overreacting (or the lame excuse we don't have an adequate replacement).

Shepherd fields KO's at the 3 yardline and runs straight ahead into the thickest traffic at the 17. No vision, speed or wiggle at all.

How can anyone not related to Shepherd defend the stats you listed above?

I just don't get it. This guy is not NFL material right now...he's still N. Dakota St. level.

Long past time to cut him. We do have Tremon Smith on the PS right? Or there are others on the street with more talent.

 

[swhitset]

Yet on his TD catch and run, Lazard was catching up to him. So unless his injury sapped a tiny bit of speed or he throttled back...
But playing from behind will do that. He's 0-3 VS GB. 2007 Favre (4th qtr comeback for Brett) and 2011 Rodgers (2 pick sixes early)made any wins tough.
http://pfref.com/tiny/BmXYO

Watched that play about 5 times just now. MVS had clearly begun throttling down.

 

[OldSchool101]

That volume tackle numbers don't mean anything.

Right. Neither do FF, INT, PD, Sacks, etc.. they keep track of it just for fun.

The 2018 top group of top tacklers all suck. They suck from start to finish, they should all be fired immediately.
Darius Leonard, Blake Martinez, Bobby Wagner, Leighton Vander Esch. Anthony Hitchens, Telvin Smith, Luke Kuechly.. what a bunch of misfits.

The 2019 group.. they are even worse! Blake Martinez (48 Solo!) He’s got more solo than Han from Star Wars! Just forget about his FF and his Sack too, that’s just luck.

Jordan Hicks (39!) Erick Kendricks (44) Landon Collins (41) , what a bunch of half breeds!!! Absolutely no pedigree there!
These guys are all imposters

Looking at this list for 3 years. I don’t see one player that’s as bad as what this little forum group is making them. I’m just going to say call a spade a spade and say you guys don’t know what your talking about. It’s like mob mentality. But it’s not aligning with the numbers.

let’s rename the thread.

. “Witch-hunt”

I’m stepping up for Blake your honor. He’s a good dude... and he can toss an egg like you ain’t ever seen!

 

[El Guapo]

Studs:

• Jones: They gave him another chance to make the play on the corner wheel, and he pulled it off. He also had a nice screen called back on a phantom OPI. He was good in pass pro and made a killer block on MVS' long catch and run.

I was up north and missed the game, but did see this play on the highlights. I re-wound the play several times to figure out it was Aaron Jones that put a nasty block downfield. THAT is the kind of stuff that makes big plays and wins championships. WRs and RBs need to block for one another. It's no one-man show in the NFL unless your name is Barry Sanders.

 

[Dantés]

Right. Neither do FF, INT, PD, Sacks, etc.. they keep track of it just for fun.

The 2018 top group of top tacklers all suck. They suck from start to finish, they should all be fired immediately.
Darius Leonard, Blake Martinez, Bobby Wagner, Leighton Vander Esch. Anthony Hitchens, Telvin Smith, Luke Kuechly.. what a bunch of misfits.

The 2019 group.. they are even worse! Blake Martinez (48 Solo!) He’s got more solo than Hans from Star Wars! Just forget about his FF and his Sack too, that’s just luck.

Jordan Hicks (39!) Erick Kendricks (44) Landon Collins (41) , what a bunch of half breeds!!! Absolutely no pedigree there!
These guys are all imposters

Looking at this list for 3 years. I don’t see one player that’s as bad as what this little forum group is making them. I’m just going to say call a spade a spade and say you guys don’t know what your talking about. Your feeding on one another and making each other feel good but it’s hogwash.

I didn't say tackle volume is a bad thing. It just doesn't necessarily indicate good play. Hence why you find both great and lousy players with high tackle volume.

But you got one thing right-- this is just a little forum group. It's just random fans, talking about the team and how they see things. So it's funny that you're so bent out of shape that some people don't see a player the same way you do. You're a little old to be this thin-skinned.

 

[OldSchool101]

I didn't say tackle volume is a bad thing. It just doesn't necessarily indicate good play. Hence why you find both great and lousy players with high tackle volume.

But you got one thing right-- this is just a little forum group. It's just random fans, talking about the team and how they see things. So it's funny that you're so bent out of shape that some people don't see a player the same way you do. You're a little old to be this thin-skinned.

I’m not bent out of shape at all. Otherwise I’d be talking in all CAPS! You just don’t like it when people disagree with you is what I’m seeing.

If you knew me you wouldn’t think that at all. It probably comes across that way because I’m passionate about guys or gals who I think are being unfairly treated. Ironically? I’d defend you if I thought you were being bullied.
Some of you guys are like Pharisees... all pride but no compassion. I think it’s partly because no one has held you to account.. maybe that’s what I’m here for? praise you Lord.

Nothing personal to me at all. btw. I’ve been around the block long enough (more than 1/2 century) to spot a forum bully at work (or small group) and I can assure you age has little to do with it. They come in all shapes and size.

 

[Dantés]

I’m not bent out of shape at all. Otherwise I’d be talking in all CAPS! You just don’t like it when people disagree with you is what I’m seeing.

If you knew me you wouldn’t think that at all. It probably comes across that way because I’m passionate about guys or gals who I think are being unfairly treated. Ironically? I’d defend you if I thought you were being bullied.
Some of you guys are like Pharisees... all pride but no compassion. I think it’s partly because no one has held you to account.. maybe that’s what I’m here for praise you Lord.

Nothing personal to me at all. btw. I’ve been around the block long enough (more than 1/2 century) to spot a forum bully at work (or small group) and I can assure you age has little to do with it. I’m no dummy I don’t fall for tricks.

You're saying that people who aren't impressed with Martinez are a "mob" of "impostors" engaged in a "witch hunt." You straight up said that people who don't agree with you don't know what they're talking about. And you think I'm a bully?

 

[LambeauLombardi]

Well, here's how I think it stacks up

I feel confident about the KC game. Mostly because if you put Rodgers head to head against Matt Moore in a shootout, which could happen, I'd say Rodgers wins. I don't think we overlook these guys.

The Chargers .... THIS ... I believe will be in fact the trap game we gotta watch out for. Now I've said I think the Chargers do have to move on from Rivers once this season is over. But when he's played us, he's put up some damn good numbers. I just get this feeling the way he and his team have been losing close games and the way things have been piling up that his offense might put together one of those games mirroring what the Bucs did to the Rams. They're one of those bad teams that has talent that could put together that one good game in a season where the offense hits a jackpot.

I think yes, we will crush the Panthers. They got lucky and got us when Tom Clements was calling plays in 2015, and then got an only half recovered Rodgers in 2017. I believe Davante comes back for this one and they get Aaron Godgers on a tear like he was today. I did see the article about them possibly trading Cam before the deadline, but man I really wish they'd put him back in for this one because I was so looking forward to seeing the Smith bros spike the football on his head.

As for Jimmy Garropolo, well I wouldn't underestimate these guys. They have probably the league's toughest defense, and probably the best we're going to face this year. He's efficient enough that we'll have our work cut out in this game.

Probably the toughest remaining game after SF will be the one in Minny. Now we all know what happens to Cousins in big games which is why he is guaranteed to never win a Superbowl. But we also gotta hope that Rodgers finally has his luck turned around in this stadium because thus far he has not done well here.

And Stafford ... Well, considering it's the last game of the season and no telling what our playoff scenario will be I don't even know how that game will be approached. Could be if Detroit is out and we're in that many of our starters won't see the field much.

All the rest of those QBs though, yeah I'd say they're fair game.

No question these are scary teams, but when you look at not only the qbs we play for the rest of 2019 but the qbs in the entire league, it isn't as good as it has been in years past due to injuries/Luck retiring. I think that bodes well for our defense.

Also hate Minny's new dome, time to finally win there.

 

[HardRightEdge]

On kickoffs, he might as well just let the ball go into the end zone and down it.

A KO returner does not, cannot let the ball bounce shy of the goal line. If it stays in the field of play nothing good comes of it. It's a free ball that could result in the opponent deep in your territory or your end zone. If you cover it in the field of play you have terrible field positions. I don't think Shepherd has brought one out of the end zone. If he has it would have been borderline 1 yard deep.

It appears Denver and Oakland were kicking short on purpose. I'm seeing other teams appearing to do the same. Not a bad idea given the state of kick return blocking in the NFL. You could also get a bonus 10 yards on an illegal block some percentage of the time.

 

[Dantés]

Raiders quarterbacks completed 24 passes yesterday-- 16 were to backs and tight ends.

The Raiders' passing game went for 329 yards-- 199 of it to backs and tight ends.

The Raiders threw three touchdowns-- all to tight ends.

 

[longtimefan]

I didn't say tackle volume is a bad thing. It just doesn't necessarily indicate good play. Hence why you find both great and lousy players with high tackle volume.

But you got one thing right-- this is just a little forum group. It's just random fans, talking about the team and how they see things. So it's funny that you're so bent out of shape that some people don't see a player the same way you do. You're a little old to be this thin-skinned.

Can you show replays of him. suckling?

any possibility he is told to do the things you think he shouldn't be doing?

It's odd that 2 years or 3 years he is at top...that is a big trend...

Why is it a trend? When was the last time a lb for the packers were top 3 in tackles? Not a rhetorical question..I truly want YOU to look it up

 

[Dantés]

Can you show replays of him. suckling?

any possibility he is told to do the things you think he shouldn't be doing?

It's odd that 2 years or 3 years he is at top...that is a big trend...

Why is it a trend? When was the last time a lb for the packers were top 3 in tackles? Not a rhetorical question..I truly want YOU to look it up

Sorry, I have no interest in looking up volume tackle stats. If you have interest, feel free to look it up.

I have most every game recorded, so yeah I have replays of him not playing well. I don't have them in a format that I can easily share in the forum.

If you're interested, I would suggest you watch games with an eye towards what happens when a blocker gets to him and when he's in man coverage. Just track that and see what you think.

It's a certainty that Martinez is being coached to play in ways that I am unaware of... probably in ways that I have very little concept of. But it is also a certainty that he is not being coached to be ineffective in man coverage and in his take on ability.

The reason Martinez has a ton of tackles is that he plays behind a good defensive line that keeps him clean and most plays are funnelled towards him. It is also because he is good in that role and I make no denial of that.

My gripe, as I've now said maybe dozens of times, is simply this: he can't cover and he can't deal with blocks. And because he can do neither, he forces the defense to be imbalanced towards run or pass. Play a stronger run defender next to him to allow his his take on skills, and you get burned through the air. Play a stronger cover option next to him to allow for his cover issues, and you get burned on the ground.

 

[Dantés]

Actually, here you go:

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/grading-the-pack-haha-clinton-dix-blake-martinez-bonus-film-review-506

There is a TON of Blake in this breakdown and I think the author gets him right, both good and bad. All I would add is that, in my opinion, the problems are worse this year and the splash plays are rarer.

 

[Mondio]

Actually, here you go:

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/grading-the-pack-haha-clinton-dix-blake-martinez-bonus-film-review-506

There is a TON of Blake in this breakdown and I think the author gets him right, both good and bad. All I would add is that, in my opinion, the problems are worse this year and the splash plays are rarer.

That's a pretty good breakdown actually, and I agree, his splash plays are fewer this year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Dud: Rodgers for completing the deep ball to MVS on the opening play of the second half. He had Graham wide open on a 10 yard crosser. Hey, if you're going to knock him when it doesn't work then you gotta knock when it does.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Play a stronger run defender next to him to allow his his take on skills, and you get burned through the air. Play a stronger cover option next to him to allow for his cover issues, and you get burned on the ground.[/QUOTE

That sums it up pretty well. It comes down to read and react. Sometimes he's on the spot, a lot of times not. No 240 lb. ILB is going to get off a second level lineman block standing flatfooted eyeing where the play might go. That's where you get those slides off the block mopping up downfield a la the aging Hawk. A good read gets off those blocks by being on the move to the play where the big man can only get a glancing hit on him. Same thing in coverage, late in his read of the where the ball is going.

I wouldn't be so sure Goodson/Greene or Campbell wouldn't do a better job than Martinez/Green or Campbell.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Raiders quarterbacks completed 24 passes yesterday-- 16 were to backs and tight ends.

The Raiders' passing game went for 329 yards-- 199 of it to backs and tight ends.

The Raiders threw three touchdowns-- all to tight ends.

Waller for 126 yds. and 2 TDs was the story. The rest not so much especially considering they had 2 TEs on the field on most snaps. The RBs didn't do much in the passing game.

That does not include the 28 yd. TD to a wide open Waller that was called back for holding. That was on 3-man rush. Martinez blew that coverage in my estimation. He was out wide on Jacobs and followed him into the middle where 3 other defenders were already working, leaving his zone as Waller was coming up into his face and went by into wide open spaces.

Waller goes for 48 splitting the safties. Amos has his arm out signalling for Redmond to take him, but Redmond was too shallow.

At 28-10, they played a lot of zone on the next Oakland possession and Carr short pass metriculated down the field to get back in the game. In general, the zone coverages are pretty shabby when Pettine gets conservative with a lead, as in the Dallas game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A KO returner does not, cannot let the ball bounce shy of the goal line. If it stays in the field of play nothing good comes of it. It's a free ball that could result in the opponent deep in your territory or your end zone. If you cover it in the field of play you have terrible field positions. I don't think Shepherd has brought one out of the end zone. If he has it would have been borderline 1 yard deep.

It appears Denver and Oakland were kicking short on purpose. I'm seeing other teams appearing to do the same. Not a bad idea given the state of kick return blocking in the NFL. You could also get a bonus 10 yards on an illegal block some percentage of the time.

Yet, Shepherd ranks near the bottom of the league with his 16.33/kick return average and dead last of players with 6 or more returns. Paint it anyway you want to, I haven't seen anything I like about the guy as far as kick/punt returns.