Studs n duds Niners playoffs

[pacmaniac]

Agreed. People need to stop letting Rodgers off the hook. He sucked AGAIN. He choked AGAIN. Period.

If you guys think Rodgers is an ordinary QB, then we can give him a pass. But if he is supposedly a GOAT level QB, we cannot make excuses for him EVERY time he loses a playoff game. How many times have we seen him thread passes into covered receivers? He was WAY off in this game, underthrowing and overthrowing to open receivers. He failed to play up to his standards in this game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

How do you not see both of you are missing the honesty of the big picture. You defend the concept the offense shouldn’t hold blame, and he places too much solely on Rodgers.

I’d argue against both of you. lol

LOL.....One thing I have not said was that Rodgers had a great game and couldn't have played better, he could have. However, this looking at one play (bomb to a double covered Adams) that some are doing and then saying "see....this is what I am talking about, Rodgers sucks, he should have thrown it to a wide open Lazard, we win the game", is total BS and selectively ignoring the rest of the game. The 49'ers defense played exceptionally well and the Packers offense, besides the opening drive and FG drive, really couldn't find any answers. However, the offense still scored enough points to win and I didn't see Rodgers fumble the ball, he didn't throw interceptions, he just didn't do what some expect him to do all the time and that was make a lot of phenomenal plays.

 

[kevans74]

kevans74 said:
Just stop with the AR and "no WR help" BS, it was the same thing with Favre. Favre didn't get "good" WRs until he had Jennings and Jones. Just stop

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Good one.

I mean honestly, this is just "who Aaron is".... I hope/wish he "proves me wrong". But it was the same with Favre.

You always KNEW he was going to throw that STUPID game ending interception in the playoffs

For Aaron, you just KNEW he couldn't score and put that "dagger" in after the D made a play.

Both will be All Time greats though and you cannot discredit them for what they did for 30 years in the Regular Season.

But neither will/should ever be in a GOAT conversation.

 

[tynimiller]

LOL.....One thing I have not said was that Rodgers had a great game and couldn't have played better, he could have. However, this looking at one play (bomb to a double covered Adams) that some are doing and then saying "see....this is what I am talking about, Rodgers sucks, he should have thrown it to a wide open Lazard, we win the game", is total BS and selectively ignoring the rest of the game. The 49'ers defense played exceptionally well and the Packers offense, besides the opening drive and FG drive, really couldn't find any answers. However, the offense still scored enough points to win and I didn't see Rodgers fumble the ball, he didn't throw interceptions, he just didn't do what some expect him to do all the time and that was make a lot of phenomenal plays.

That's just one play. He was underthrowing or missing guys atypically for him. I'll never accept 10 points being enough to win in the modern day NFL. It may get you lucky at times, but you gotta put up 20 minimum to be in most games.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's just one play. He was underthrowing or missing guys atypically for him. I'll never accept 10 points being enough to win in the modern day NFL. It may get you lucky at times, but you gotta put up 20 minimum to be in most games.

Yet the 49'ers won with 13 points and no TD's scored by their offense.

I would credit the Packer offense with putting the Packers into a position of scoring 13 points. Rodgers had 9 incompletions, how many were throw aways, drops, rush induced misses or flat out bad passes? Jimmy G had 8 incompletions on 10 less throws, 1 interception and 95 less yards. The 49'ers offense didn't win them the game, their defense and special teams did. The Packers offense didn't lose them the game, the Packers defense didn't lose them the game, but played more than well enough to win, the Packers special teams lost them the game.

 

[Half Empty]

When I did a 'what's going on?' check on the game, the first thing I saw was SF with 3 points going into the 4th quarter. In the millisecond before seeing the Packers' 7 points, I almost relaxed and started thinking of how to apologize for my negativity. However...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

kevans74 said:
Just stop with the AR and "no WR help" BS, it was the same thing with Favre. Favre didn't get "good" WRs until he had Jennings and Jones. Just stop

It is amazing how selective some fans memory is.

-Antonio Freeman
-Donald Driver
-Bubba Franks
-Javon Walker
-Mark Chumra
-Robert Brooks
-Sterling Sharpe

Do you need me to go through all of the WR's and TE's that Rodgers has had from 2008-2018 and the rest since?

 

[tynimiller]

It is amazing how selective some fans memory is.

-Antonio Freeman
-Donald Driver
-Bubba Franks
-Javon Walker
-Mark Chumra
-Robert Brooks
-Sterling Sharpe

Do you need me to go through all of the WR's and TE's that Rodgers has had from 2008-2018 and the rest since?

I would say like Rodgers and Adams, Favre really became better without Sharp who I believe was his best WR he ever threw to - early in his career he honed in way too much on Sharpe, but Sharpe was a baaaad man honestly so it wasn't without merit.

 

[kevans74]

I would say like Rodgers and Adams, Favre really became better without Sharp who I believe was his best WR he ever threw to - early in his career he honed in way too much on Sharpe, but Sharpe was a baaaad man honestly so it wasn't without merit.

true. Sterling and Davante are both HOF caliber talents at WR.

But let's stop with the "rest of the supporting cast" argument is my point here. It doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, both Brett and Aaron choked in the playoffs on numerous times.

Ironically though I would say both Ahman Green and Aaron Jones may "make up" for a lack of secondary WR talent as they were/are both great dynamic and dual threat HBs. So I don't think either really had an advantage in that regard either.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would say like Rodgers and Adams, Favre really became better without Sharp who I believe was his best WR he ever threw to - early in his career he honed in way too much on Sharpe, but Sharpe was a baaaad man honestly so it wasn't without merit.

Yes, but you still need your compliment of other WR's, as well as a decent TE. For years Rodgers had crap for TE's. Robert Tonyan has a great year and look how Rodgers was able to spread the ball around. I just don't consider our current package of TE's and WR's as compliments to Rodgers and Adams. Now when he had this group....he spread the ball around.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

But let's stop with the "rest of the supporting cast" argument is my point here. It doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, both Brett and Aaron choked in the playoffs on numerous times.

Why stop? Both Favre and Rodgers each won a SB, with a decent supporting cast. Favre lost a SB with a good supporting cast. Both QB's failed in the playoffs with and without a good supporting cast. Why are we pinning the losses and the wins, on one player?

Rodgers has been surrounded by some great offensive players, but it seems when he was, his defenses stunk or his special teams blew an NFCCG. This year the defense was up and down, but had a great game going against the 49'ers, his offense sputtered but put up enough points to beat the other teams offense, but his special teams stunk.

 

[kevans74]

Word was, the FO wanted Hockenson(TE) and Justin Jefferson (WR) in drafts.

Either of those guys would obviously have been a difference maker as a playmaker for AR. But I don't believe in "what ifs". If you want to live you life like that, you can always play Madden

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Word was, the FO wanted Hockenson(TE) and Justin Jefferson (WR) in drafts.

Either of those guys would obviously have been a difference maker as a playmaker for AR. But I don't believe in "what ifs". If you want to live you life like that, you can always play Madden

Gute supposedly has wanted quite a few players that would have been more support than Moore, ESB, MVS, Lazard, Sternberger, Deguara, Amari Rodgers, Jimmy Graham, Marcedes Lewis and the dozen or so UDFA's that have been in Green Bay since 2018.

Problem is, he hasn't landed any legit #2 WR's or a really good TE. So yes.....the whole "what ifs" he had landed some real support, doesn't change the results of what he actually did do.

 

[swhitset]

Packers Offense: 13 points (less 3 on blocked FG)

49'ers Offense: 6 points

Where does the difference lie?

Well it does say that your point about the 49er‘s defense playing even better than the Packers’ is incorrect lol.

 

[tynimiller]

Gute supposedly has wanted quite a few players that would have been more support than Moore, ESB, MVS, Lazard, Sternberger, Deguara, Amari Rodgers, Jimmy Graham, Marcedes Lewis and the dozen or so UDFA's that have been in Green Bay since 2018.

Problem is, he hasn't landed any legit #2 WR's or a really good TE. So yes.....the whole "what ifs" he had landed some real support, doesn't change the results of what he actually did do.

To Gute's credit however, he hasn't really missed on players in spots on building a successful teams elsewhere - yes before you say it, I'm with you on the Love pick. I wanted Michael Pittman so bad I thought for sure that was the trade move - I get it.

 

[tynimiller]

Well it does say that your point about the 49er‘s defense playing even better than the Packers’ is incorrect lol.

LOL @Pokerbrat2000 saw this and mumbled, "Ugh, Ty wouldn't have been smart enough to catch that...thanks a lot @swhitset !" LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well it does say that your point about the 49er‘s defense playing even better than the Packers’ is incorrect lol.

Honestly, I think the Packers have a better offense than the 49'ers, due to having Rodgers. Insert Love into that game and we score zero points. So yes, I think our defense played well, but the 9'ers defense played even better. I also think that the 49'ers have a better front 7 on defense than the Packers.

 

[kevans74]

To Gute's credit however, he hasn't really missed on players in spots on building a successful teams elsewhere - yes before you say it, I'm with you on the Love pick. I wanted Michael Pittman so bad I thought for sure that was the trade move - I get it.

Definitely. I have really liked J'aire, Stokes, Savage (mostly), Amos, all the OL picks, AJ Dillon, Campell, Rashan Gary, and both Smith's.

I mean I guess this is where as a fan you think "what if", if he HAD went "all in" for say a Will Fuller or Odell Beckham. Either of those 2 would have been definite upgrades over MVS, Lazard, Moore, etc. all of those other guys who would probably not start on most other NFL teams.

None of us will really ever know for certain what his actual offer was to get those guys, so it won't really matter. But those are obviously "what if" scenarios where he could have just been incredibly aggressive to get them no matter what and he did not.

On the other end, he missed badly on Jimmy Graham and undoubtedly overpaid for a guy past his prime.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think Aaron Rodgers was his own worst enemy in regards to "forcing" TT or Gute to see that they needed to provide him with more support. I don't mean AR talking to them as to his needs, I mean neither of them recognized that while AR and the Packers were playing pretty well with Davante Adams and <fill in the blank here>, they could have been playing even better with better WR's and TE's.

If you watched the Rams game yesterday and saw how Matthew Stafford was able to throw the ball around to different targets, with a ton of success, it made me wonder what AR could have done with that compliment of weapons.

 

[tynimiller]

I think Aaron Rodgers was his own worst enemy in regards to "forcing" TT or Gute to see that they needed to provide him with more support. I don't mean AR talking to them as to his needs, I mean neither of them recognized that while AR and the Packers were playing pretty well with Davante Adams and <fill in the blank here>, they could have been playing even better with better WR's and TE's.

If you watched the Rams game yesterday and saw how Matthew Stafford was able to throw the ball around to different targets, with a ton of success, it made me wonder what AR could have done with that compliment of weapons.

In watching film the last few years, outside of the games Adams was out or very few do you actually witness progression in options though. I don't blame Rodgers one bit as I have said constantly - but it is why many wonder if Adams in a way became too much of the plan similar to how Sharpe was for Favre. Often times it appears (again zero clue from his perspective but reading what I could/can) his progressions usually went Adams - Adams -Jones - Adams - others ...or Adams - Jones - Adams - others...

 

[pacmaniac]

The Packers D played even better than the 9ers D. But Garopollo still made the clutch throws when he had to, while Rodgers couldn't.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In watching film the last few years, outside of the games Adams was out or very few do you actually witness progression in options though. I don't blame Rodgers one bit as I have said constantly - but it is why many wonder if Adams in a way became too much of the plan similar to how Sharpe was for Favre. Often times it appears (again zero clue from his perspective but reading what I could/can) his progressions usually went Adams - Adams -Jones - Adams - others ...or Adams - Jones - Adams - others...

I know there is a lot of chatter about "Rodgers wins when Adams doesn't play", but Rodgers has won a lot of games with Adams too. Would the Packers have won Saturday night without Adams? I don't know. I know Adams is a ton better than any other WR on the Packers team and if he wasn't getting open, I doubt suddenly Lazard, Cobb and Winfree are world beaters.

I totally understand the "Adams Tunnel Vision" argument....both sides of it. Have I ever broken down a game without Adams and said "omg, Rodgers is a different/better QB when Adams sits out"? No, I haven't.

Could there be truth to it, probably. Would the Packers had gone 17-0 or even 13-4 without Adams? I doubt it.

Usually when this is brought up, is after a game exactly like we saw on Saturday. Packers lose to a team with a very good front 7 and Rodgers seems off. I never heard people talking about it after games we won, whether Rodgers spread the ball around or not. If I had to say why this (Davante Tunnel vision) happens, it happens in games where Rodgers is very uncomfortable in the pocket and he isn't seeing many guys open on his one and only look. He knows he has one great receiver and a bunch of so so WR's, so yes, he probably will lean on Davante more than games when he always has a clean pocket.

 

[OldSchool101]

If you guys think Rodgers is an ordinary QB, then we can give him a pass. But if he is supposedly a GOAT level QB, we cannot make excuses for him EVERY time he loses a playoff game. How many times have we seen him thread passes into covered receivers? He was WAY off in this game, underthrowing and overthrowing to open receivers. He failed to play up to his standards in this game.

I saw a good QB with few viable receiving options in the passing game. #1 WR was doubled and we had no other #2 WR or #1 TE. Call it weaker receiver options. Weather obviously made it difficult for both QB’s but where was our Slot? Our TE? We had none

The 49'ers offense didn't win them the game, their defense and special teams did.

That also eludes to our O was not better than their D. We just never came anywhere close to 2020 and imo it was mostly due to injuries at OL. We could see it in our Run game we should’ve had 2 RBs over 760+ yards easy. Either RB is capable of 1000 rushing with a good OL.

Yes, but you still need your compliment of other WR's, as well as a decent TE. For years Rodgers had crap for TE's.

Amen. Deguara was not prepared to be our #1 TE. Big Dog was bogged down with helping our OL but he’s really more a #2 TE ceiling anyway. Deguara should’ve be our #3 TE. So we basically played a Divisional using our #3 TE in a game where TE in the receiving area was detrimental. You out any great route running TE in there for #12 and we win that game.

We played with a #1 WR and a #3-4 WR (#4 coming off a serious injury)
#3 And #4 TE (our #2 was bogged down in the blocking area). Mix that with a winters mix at 0 temps and you get a flat tire. We were limping on a spare tire in poor road conditions. Having a big motor backing it is useless in that scenario.

 

[tynimiller]

I know there is a lot of chatter about "Rodgers wins when Adams doesn't play", but Rodgers has won a lot of games with Adams too. Would the Packers have won Saturday night without Adams? I don't know. I know Adams is a ton better than any other WR on the Packers team and if he wasn't getting open, I doubt suddenly Lazard, Cobb and Winfree are world beaters.

I totally understand the "Adams Tunnel Vision" argument....both sides of it. Have I ever broken down a game with Adams and said "omg, Rodgers is a different/better QB when Adams sits out"? No, I haven't.

Could there be truth to it, probably. Would the Packers had gone 17-0 or even 13-4 without Adams? I doubt it.

Usually when this is brought up, is after a game exactly like we saw on Saturday. Packers lose to a team with a very good front 7 and Rodgers seems off. I never heard people talking about it after games we won, whether Rodgers spread the ball around or not. If I had to say why this (Davante Tunnel vision) happens, it happens in games where Rodgers is very uncomfortable in the pocket and he isn't seeing many guys open on his one and only look. He knows he has one great receiver and a bunch of so so WR's, so yes, he probably will lean on Davante more than games when he always has a clean pocket.

I despise hypotheticals used to base anything, I just say what I see. Arguably a few of the most 'zoned in" games I've seen Rodgers have with Davante have been in massive wins even - its just how freaking good their connection is.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That also eludes to our O was not better than their D. We just never came anywhere close to 2020 and imo it was mostly due to injuries at OL. We could see it in our Run game we should’ve had 2 RBs over 760+ yards easy. Either RB is capable of 1000 rushing with a good OL.

Amen. Deguara was not prepared to be our #1 TE. Big Dog was bogged down with helping our OL but he’s really more a #2 TE ceiling anyway. Deguara should’ve be our #3 TE. So we basically played a Divisional using our #3 TE in a game where TE in the receiving area was detrimental. You out any great route running TE in there for #12 and we win that game.

We played with a #1 WR and a #3-4 WR (#4 coming off a serious injury)
#3 And #4 TE (our #2 was bogged down in the blocking area)

I don't think either offense really shined on Saturday night, but the defenses did. The 49'ers having Deebo and Kittle, were better than Adams and they did just enough to move the ball at the right time, for a winning FG. Lets not also forget that Jimmy G. gave away 3 points with his interception throw to Amos at the end of the 2nd Q.

Again, the difference in the game ended up being Special Teams and the Packers were far from special.