Studs n duds Eagles

[PackerDNA]

For the record MVS 4.37 and Watson 4.36

Maybe it's because he's a long strider, but Watson doesn't even look like he's running full speed and yet he's blowing by people like they're standing still.

 

[OldSchool101]

For the record MVS 4.37 and Watson 4.36

I know. That’s why I said that he runs faster than his time.

If I recall. He ran an unofficial 4.28.
I remember seeing it was a combine run but unofficially.

Found it

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[Pugger]

To be honest I don't know a whole lot about Leonard. But I didn't like was reading a while back that he's a disciple of Pettine. That's a disqualifier right away from me. So again what's the big deal with the guy because he's from Wisconsin?

As a DC his defenses at Wisconsin ranked in the top 5 nationally in 2020 and 2021. I would love to see what he could do with the Packers' D.

 

[tynimiller]

I know. That’s why I said that he runs faster than his time.

If I recall. He ran an unofficial 4.28.
I remember seeing it was a combine run but unofficially.

There were rumors of sub 4.3

Needless to say the one thing you'll notice if you pull up game film Watson's line selection is almost always pure. Rarely do you see a play and realize his line cost him a couple yards or the ability to take it to the house.

I'll use that crosser from Love that he scored on last night. He swung that thing wide for some time before one would argue he headed for the house...however he never hesitated and he measured defenders and spacing in millisecond to know what point he needed to get to first to have the edge and be free.

MVS I think is just as fast, however being a smaller receiver might be some of it, but while I think he could run with Watson just on a streak...you add in an angle or mid-distant angle switch I think you see Watson pull ahead.

 

[OldSchool101]

There were rumors of sub 4.3

Needless to say the one thing you'll notice if you pull up game film Watson's line selection is almost always pure. Rarely do you see a play and realize his line cost him a couple yards or the ability to take it to the house.

I'll use that crosser from Love that he scored on last night. He swung that thing wide for some time before one would argue he headed for the house...however he never hesitated and he measured defenders and spacing in millisecond to know what point he needed to get to first to have the edge and be free.

MVS I think is just as fast, however being a smaller receiver might be some of it, but while I think he could run with Watson just on a streak...you add in an angle or mid-distant angle switch I think you see Watson pull ahead.

Posted the link above. It was 4.28

For some semblance of just how fast that is? it’s slower than John Ross but faster than Tyreek Hill Pro Day

 

[Heyjoe4]

Stud: Nixon, Dillon, Jones, Watson, Love, Tonyan.

Dud: Run defense. Secondary playing so far off the receivers. Barry. Lafleur for being a Mike McCarthy and holding onto struggling coaches for so long.

I watched a segment on some sports show after the game and Luke Willson of Seattle Seahawks fame was the talking head. He said he watched the sidelines and it seemed like there was some relief when Rodgers was out of the game. Gotta say I think I agree.

I don't get why Barry has the corners play so far off the LOS. It cost then 7 points before half time when they couldn't get off the field after a 3rd and 14. It's maddening to see these athletic corners playing some kind of half *** zone/prevent when they should be playing man and shoving the receivers at the LOS.

And yeah I feel relieved that Rodgers is gonna get some time off to heal. And we get to see what we have in Love. so lemonade out of lemons - well, not really but ya know what I mean.

Now maybe @captainWIMM has access to prove or disprove an observation but I think the offense has looked better the last three games or so...is it just me or are we finally seeing more pre-snap motion like MLF system typically has?

I don’t know about motion, but MLF is much more disciplined about running, making RPO work. I don’t recall previous MLF teams going away from motion, so that’s strange.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Studs:
- In general I thought our running game was pretty solid yesterday with 20 carries at ~5 ypc. Unfortunately with going behind early and a couple of early turnovers I suspect it was going to be hard to commit to running as much as we might have wanted to. Dillon has kind of seemed to have been having a "down" year but arguably had his best game of the season yesterday. Jones finished with around 100 all-purpose yards too and while just 3.6 ypc looked pretty dangerous overall.
- OL play was generally improved, one of the better performances as a unit for the season IMO.
- Watson continuing his emergence, I'm really liking more and more what I see from this guy. Still wish he had caught that opener against Minnesota as it feels like his progress was delayed by weeks for that but he's quickly entering that territory where you simply expect a big play to happen every time he touches the ball.
- Nixon in general was really encouraging in the return game. He did have one big boneheaded decision but overall felt like a breath of fresh air back there.
- Enagbare continues to show more promise and IMO produce above expectation (relative to draft position, hype, etc). I have liked what I have seen from him.
- I'm sure the defense was fairly soft at that point but Jordan Love looked greatly improved to my eye. Obviously a small sample size but for me was by far the best I've seen out of him so far. Great zip on his throws, placing the ball well, making the right decisions, and overall just looking way more confident and in-control. I'm hoping he gets some more reps in the coming weeks so we can get a better picture of what we have but honestly I was really encouraged by his play yesterday, more than ever before honestly.
- Quay Walker is still pretty raw but man is he talented. Still though...

Duds:
- Quay Walker also seemed to miss a dozen tackles and generally was not super disciplined (position/assignment/etc) on the day.
- Similarly I felt like Rasul missed a dozen tackles and was just behind the pace of the game a lot. Not a great showing from him to my eye
- Our defense continues to be poor on the whole and our rush defense in particular is just shocking. After yesterday's performance we are officially dead last in rush yards allowed, last in first downs allowed by rushing, 4th-highest yards per rush attempt against, and 7th in rush TDs allowed. I know much has been said about our offense underperforming (and in many ways they have) but I think that was in large part expected. We assembled one of the most costly defenses in the NFL in terms of draft capital and monetary investment (and I suspect if you put a "value" assignment to those draft picks it is probably THE most costly one in the league) and it was supposed to be an elite unit that could carry us past a down year from the offense. It's been an abject failure in that regard. Firing Barry at the end of the season should be a foregone conclusion at this point (as in...the papers should already be signed, sealed, and just needing delivered) but frankly I don't see any benefit whatsoever in continuing to employ him for one day further. I have seen some say things like "there's no guarantee we would get better" but really I don't see much chance of it getting worse, either, so it is what it is.

The stats on the D are mind-numbing. The players are talented. The DC is in over his head, and having a rookie call the D plays is questionable. I don’t think a lot of personnel changes are needed - well other than an entirely new defensive coaching staff.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Go figure, our Oline has finally settled and is playing better and our highly drafted speedster is finally seeing the field and making some plays, and the offense looks better. Coincidence? probably just Rodgers finally buying into the system or something...

Good point. Ideally the QB on this team is a game manager and Rodgers has never done that. I’m sure that goes against his instincts. Then again, he’s getting no help from the D.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I 100% share your frustration.

Yes there was admittedly an abundance of poor tackling. It’s pretty obvious even Clark had a bad day.
Barry doesn’t trust his pass rush to get home at all. This is something I’ve been saying since he’s been here. He plays a soft on Receivers off LOS. I can only remember a sprinkle of games where we played full press and we actually looked better. I’m surprised Barry doesn’t recognize that Rasul strength is his aggressive demeanor inside 10 yards and his ability to react to the QB on intermediate and shorter throws. His weakness is on the long ball, where he’s unable to use his strengths.

We have 1 above average Safety in Amos and 1 guy that disappears in games altogether in Savage. My best guess is Barry is afraid of getting burned deep because of our weak link. It’s his responsibility to sit a player if they are hurting the team. Savage doesn’t have any business being a deep Safety or last line of Defense. That falls squarely on Joe Barry for allowing it. Similar to Rich allowing Amari to muddy up that squad too long.

Thanks I thought it was me. You made all the other points. I know it’s easy to say fire Barry. He never should have been hired in the first place.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Studs: Dillon, Jones, Watson, Cobb, Love
Duds: MLF, Murphy, Barry, Rodgers, All of Defense, Crosby

Crosby has to go

So O'Donnell is late on setting the ball and Crosby gets all the blame?

 

[Arod2gjdd]

Really? Jones alone ? Not the back that had 8 runs for 64yds and a score? I do agree with you about JA, that clown got his bag and then is phoning it in every week. JA will make a couple of decent plays, only to get burned everytime it matters. Alexander's and Douglas' play was really bad. JA is supposed to be our best defensive player with the money he's getting, not a f****** liability.

Listing all studs was clearly not my priority lol obviously Dillon was a stud and finally looking like the beast we saw last year.

My priority was to express how disgusted I was by the defense's inability to tackle or play together in any discernible way, most notably the highest paid DB in the entire league, Jaire Alexander, whose ability to trash talk now far exceeds his ability to play football.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Remember the late 70's and 80's? The re-run is now upon us. Remember when Ray Rhodes went 8-8 after 2 SB's? What happened to him? To me, this is exactly what should happen here. Have the stones to re-tool at seasons end. Watching the game last night reminded me of the Lynn ****ey/Majik man eras. Almost good enough - but not quite.

 

[PikeBadger]

Posted the link above. It was 4.28

For some semblance of just how fast that is? it’s slower than John Ross but faster than Tyreek Hill Pro Day

Is that faster than Scantling, Janis, Driver and Schroeder? He looks crazy fast to me.

 

[tynimiller]

Is that faster than Scantling, Janis, Driver and Schroeder? He looks crazy fast to me.

He didn’t run a 4.28 in any organized or semi official setting but yes that would be faster than all them. He was .01 faster at combine than MVS

 

[Heyjoe4]

So O'Donnell is late on setting the ball and Crosby gets all the blame?

Crosby has been fine on FGs this year and PATs, with a few exceptions. It seems like he can't get a kickoff into the end zone with any consistency, and with the STs unit a work in progress, that's been a pain. I don't know if they can afford a roster spot for someone to kickoff - that's way far from ideal. I like Crosby a lot. It may be time for a change though.

And, the Packers have bigger fish to fry first.

 

[OldSchool101]

Is that faster than Scantling, Janis, Driver and Schroeder? He looks crazy fast to me.

Yes.

In todays game comparable, He’d between Henry Ruggs and Tyreek Hill.
There are certainly guys faster over the 100 year sport. John Ross, Deion Sanders, Chris Johnson, Bo Jackson, Goodwin, Moss are slightly faster.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes.

In todays game comparable, He’d between Henry Ruggs and Tyreek Hill.
There are certainly guys faster over the 100 year sport. John Ross, Deion Sanders, Chris Johnson, Bo Jackson, Goodwin, Moss are slightly faster.

Are you guys talking about Watson? If so I was impressed on the slant he turned into a TD. It was a perfect throw from Love, but Watson doesn't make it to the end zone without that speed. It was incredible and reminded me of how routinely Jordy Nelson would turn a simple slant into six.

 

[tynimiller]

Are you guys talking about Watson? If so I was impressed on the slant he turned into a TD. It was a perfect throw from Love, but Watson doesn't make it to the end zone without that speed. It was incredible and reminded me of how routinely Jordy Nelson would turn a simple slant into six.

Yeah, like I said earlier watch his film - it isn't just raw speed that makes those plays get to the house, his angle selection is so good nearly every time. That is an art not many have...it's one reason Devin Hester was so good and I swear is why Nixon that isn't the fastest can make things happen - their minds can calculate attacking defenders spacing and such so fast they never break stride.

 

[MadCat]

Board of directors

Can you expound a bit?

 

[MadCat]

I forgot.
Stud to #9

He’s so fast… he makes MVS look average speed. He literally outran every DB on the field and it really wasn’t a close foot race. He’s faster than his 4.36 time imo to a point he’s got deceptive level speed.

If MVS is 4.38 speed?
#9 is more like 4.30 flat

Really such a shame that he spent much of the first half of the season off the field. Of all the injuries this season, his may have impacted the team the most, wihout anyone even realizing it at the time.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah, like I said earlier watch his film - it isn't just raw speed that makes those plays get to the house, his angle selection is so good nearly every time. That is an art not many have...it's one reason Devin Hester was so good and I swear is why Nixon that isn't the fastest can make things happen - their minds can calculate attacking defenders spacing and such so fast they never break stride.

Good point. How many times have we seen a player, offense or defense, fail because they weren’t picking up on the proper angles? It seems innate, guys have it or they don’t. Amari Rodgers did not have it sadly.

Guys can get away with that in college but not in the pros where the game is played so fast.

 

[tynimiller]

Good point. How many times have we seen a player, offense or defense, fail because they weren’t picking up on the proper angles? It seems innate, guys have it or they don’t. Amari Rodgers did not have it sadly.

Guys can get away with that in college but not in the pros where the game is played so fast.

To be fair Amari had it, but NOT when returning. Some of the best runners simply SUCK at returning - Amari SUCKED at returning period. LOL

I actually thought of MVS, and everyone knows I'm an MVS fan - but he miscalculated at times with his lines, and despite having incredible straight line speed it can hurt you.

 

[longtimefan]

Can you expound a bit?

If many things have changed on the field
Coaches, players, Gm but we get same results. Who else can be blamed?

Used to be years ago bod would dictate what happened. I'm wondering out loud of its still possible their hands are in the cookie jar

B4 anyone gets all crazy. I don't think they have any say so. But it wouldn't surprise me

 

[milani]

Studs:
Jordan Love.
Great confidence and looked totally in control. I saw just 2 throws that weren’t dimes and 1 was still caught. Please Give this kid a 5 game look and let him get some rhythm. #12 needs to heal up.

Nixon. I had no idea he was that jukey and quick. Nobody has more fight in him than that kid tonight. He’s a keeper.

Dud.
Barry should be gone after this season. I’ve seen all I’ve needed to see it’s bordering on embarrassing. He just gave the Eagles the most rushing yards in team History! That is just humiliating when you look at the resources we poured into this Defense. Did he really not think Hurts would test the run game??? Unacceptable from every possible angle.

It was not exactly in team history but you are correct. It was humiliating especially since it was not Walter Payton in the opponent's backfield. Stopping the run has been our goal for over a decade and we still cannot do it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If many things have changed on the field
Coaches, players, Gm but we get same results. Who else can be blamed?

Used to be years ago bod would dictate what happened. I'm wondering out loud of its still possible their hands are in the cookie jar

B4 anyone gets all crazy. I don't think they have any say so. But it wouldn't surprise me

Well your point is still a good one. What does the Packers' BOD do exactly? If they aren't watching everything, and in particular Murphy, then they are doing nothing. Sad thing is, that wouldn't surprise me.