Studs n duds Colts

[swhitset]

Having vision and lateral quickness is WAY more important than power (it's why Jones is actually the better short yardage back). Thank you for proving my point about rational arguments.

lol .... first you make a claim... without backing it up with any facts... and then claim to be the one that is rational.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Give it to Tyler Lancaster as a FB and let him truck it up the middle the way the fridge used to.

Lol anyway on that particular play they tried the short route play but Williams got smothered and he tried the floater pass. What I don't get is why they didn't have Sternberger running in the flat on that play. He's an athletic dude whose always open when he runs that one.

I'm almost hesitant to state this, but I think Rodgers at his presser said that the 4th down play was intended for Adams. However, it was well played by the Indy defense and he just floated the ball a bit too high for Williams to have a shot at it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

When I see statistics like that I immediately ask myself “why”? It would seem that 3rd and 4th down are nit the same thing. The Packers are a very good team on offense and are likely to convert a 3rd down. However when they run up against a team that can force them to 4th down... they are often unsuccessful. This kind of agrees with the narrative that the Packers offense regularly struggles against the better defenses.

I totally agree with you and probably my wording didn't make my point very clear. I was shocked to see the Packers were actually 4th in 3rd down conversions. I shouldn't have even mentioned the 4th down aspect and just threw it in on an edit at the end.

My "fan brain" would have guessed that they were worse in 3rd down conversions, basically because I think of those short ones that they don't convert.

 

[GleefulGary]

FWIW, the story is that somebody shot Devine's dog toward the end.

The reality is that Devine let the dog run free all the time and it went after livestock on a neighbor's farm to often. After the expected back and forth, the neighbor warned Devine. No change. Farmer shot dog.

Good for that rancher.

 

[rmontro]

3rd and 1, 4th and 1, so damn frustrating for the Packers, even back in the McCarthy days.

It certainly seems that way. Where's CaptainWIMM with his stats to say "Actually, the Packers have been one of the best teams in the NFL to pick up a 3rd and 1 or a 4th and 1 over the last 15 years" lol.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It certainly seems that way. Where's CaptainWIMM with his stats to say "Actually, the Packers have been one of the best teams in the NFL to pick up a 3rd and 1 or a 4th and 1 over the last 15 years" lol.

It very well could be that they are. Like I said, as a fan watching games and not really keeping track, it sure feels like they fail an awful lot on those short yardage plays.

 

[Mondio]

Historically the Packers have had pretty decent offenses, so it probably is likely they rate highly among the league. But I know the feeling. There's a difference when 3rd and short and the Colts line up and get it every time by saying, stop us and we're trying to find an identity. I feel more confident on 3rd and 7 than I do 3rd and 2.

On the other side of the ball we can put a team in 3rd and 17 and I'm never all that confident.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

On the other side of the ball we can put a team in 3rd and 17 and I'm never all that confident.

Agree and anytime I see "4th and 26", I am shutting the TV off.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

lol .... first you make a claim... without backing it up with any facts... and then claim to be the one that is rational.

Lol... The guy claiming the 213 lb running back is the "power" back while the 208 lb back is a scat back.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

actually it's not really. Quit making people have to argue for or against a back. they're both good at what they do. When the bodies pile up, power to keep pushing forward is important. The entirety of the league and its history disagrees with you on that.

Regardless, Jones wasn't getting the first down on that play either. They played it perfectly for our play call.

My goodness, all the people that I'm glad aren't in charge of personnel choices. Anyone claiming Williams is close to as good as Jones must have grown up watching the Jets. Easy way to figure this out, watch what each gets paid on their next contracts.

 

[Mondio]

My goodness, all the people that I'm glad aren't in charge of personnel choices. Anyone claiming Williams is close to as good as Jones must have grown up watching the Jets. Easy way to figure this out, watch what each gets paid on their next contracts.

This is why inthink you have such problems on here, everything you read is “Jones isn’t good, Williams is better” and you react to what you think you read.

And growing up watching the Jets would have given me a lot more playoff football than watching the Packers lol

 

[swhitset]

Lol... The guy claiming the 213 lb running back is the "power" back while the 208 lb back is a scat back.

Watch the games without your Jones colored glasses sometime.

 

[swhitset]

My goodness, all the people that I'm glad aren't in charge of personnel choices. Anyone claiming Williams is close to as good as Jones must have grown up watching the Jets. Easy way to figure this out, watch what each gets paid on their next contracts.

Lol the people that are in charge of personnel choices and coaching them didn’t seem to agree with you either.

 

[rmontro]

Anyone claiming Williams is close to as good as Jones must have grown up watching the Jets.

McCarthy grew up watching the Jets? I would have thought he was a Steelers fan.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Who is this "Jets" team that people speak of? Are they in the NFL?

 

[longtimefan]

It certainly seems that way. Where's CaptainWIMM with his stats to say "Actually, the Packers have been one of the best teams in the NFL to pick up a 3rd and 1 or a 4th and 1 over the last 15 years" lol.

 

[gopkrs]

I agree that Williams is better suited for 4th and 1 if we're trying to punch it straight up the middle. Besides it's not like we haven't tried 4th and 1 with Jones only to see him fail.

Why is Williams better suited? Have you not watched Jones on goal line runs this past year and a half? He is much stronger than he looks, able to shift directions very quickly with great vision, has excellent leverage and has scored a lot of TDs. Though I will say our O line often gets pushed back and nobody can get the yard when that happens. I wonder if that gets better with Jenkins at center.

 

[gopkrs]

Good for that rancher.

I would be very surprised if (even though it was the most publicized) that it was the only thing happening to Devine and family. Good for the rancher? I don't know. He certainly has the right. Just not sure he deserves applause. He was just doing what he had to do.

 

[longtimefan]

These are 2 very different statements though. The first being that you are incorrectly blaming Rodgers for "being locked in on Adams" and "not using progressions". Watch the play, he had just enough time to see Adams was covered and get rid of the ball before being tackled. The other 2 WR's in his field of vision (MVS and Lazard) would have been terrible options.

Your Second statement, you don't like the play call.

While I agree slightly with your second point but only in hind site, love the Play if it worked. Adams was one on one against Rock Ya-Sin, which was a pretty favorable match-up. Rock just happened to play it really well.

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/the-passing-chronicles-2020-week-11-mirrored-smash-116

Go to way bottom...Explains it perfectly...

Rodgers picked adams because he won a similar play earlier.

However, tonyan could have been an option..rodgers just choose adams

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rodgers picked adams because he won a similar play earlier.

However, tonyan could have been an option..rodgers just choose adams

Good to see this play from above and covering the whole field, thank you. This angle confirms what I was saying.

• The play was designed to go to Adams.
• Rodgers only had enough time to look and throw it near Adams.
• Tonyan became wide open, but only after Rodgers had committed to the pass to Adams.

So yes, had the play call been designed to go to Tonyan, Rodgers hopefully leads him enough and its an easy catch and TD.

However, for those using this play as "Rodgers never looks for other receivers", which is how the discussion of this play first was presented by someone, this isn't the play to try and prove THAT argument. Rodgers had time for one look and it was to the primary receiver on the play, Davante Adams.

So some will ask "why is Adams the primary receiver in so many plays?" I don't know, look at the talent of the Receiving group and you tell me why.

 

[longtimefan]

Good to see this play from above and covering the whole field, thank you. This angle confirms what I was saying.

• The play was designed to go to Adams.
• Rodgers only had enough time to look and throw it near Adams.
• Tonyan became wide open, but only after Rodgers had committed to the pass to Adams.

So yes, had the play call been designed to go to Tonyan, Rodgers hopefully leads him enough and its an easy catch and TD.

However, for those using this play as "Rodgers never looks for other receivers", which is how the discussion of this play first was presented by someone, this isn't the play to try and prove THAT argument. Rodgers had time for one look and it was to the primary receiver on the play, Davante Adams.

So some will ask "why is Adams the primary receiver in so many plays?" I don't know, look at the talent of the Receiving group and you tell me why.

On pat mcafee show rodgers talks in depth. He guessed to go to adams and not tonyan..so he was never going to anyone else.

Technically every body was an option..he just went to adams

Which again says is he focusing to much on adams? Dont twist that around. He admitted he guessed wrong..

tonyan was having a very good game at that point too. This might make rodgers think twice??

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

On pat mcafee show rodgers talks in depth. He guessed to go to adams and not tonyan..so he was never going to anyone else.

Technically every body was an option..he just went to adams

Which again says is he focusing to much on adams? Dont twist that around. He admitted he guessed wrong..

tonyan was having a very good game at that point too. This might make rodgers think twice??

What you are failing to acknowledge is that on this particular play Rodgers had only enough time for ONE option, the receiver that was his primary target, Davante Adams. Rodgers DID NOT have time to look at any of the other 3 receivers. MVS and Lazard would have been terrible options. Both probably tackled short, game over.

There is a big difference between a play call, with various receivers being the primary and secondary targets and what actually happens during the play. This is a classic example of people using hindsight and saying "Tonyan should have been his primary target." and carrying that into "Rodgers should have seen Adams was covered and threw the ball to Tonyan, this is proof Rodgers only looks for Adams". Which is what you and some others were saying after the game. One poster even saying he should have taken the sack. No timeouts, 7 seconds on clock, a sack?

How do you fix this problem that some have with Adams getting a lot of passes and first reads? Ask yourself, why wasn't Tonyan, MVS or Lazard his primary target on this critical last play of the game? Bottom line, until Gute gets Rodgers better and more reliable receiving weapons, Adams is most likely going to be his go to guy. If Rodgers is afforded more time, which he wasn't on this play, he will find other targets like Tonyan.

 

[longtimefan]

What you are failing to acknowledge is that on this particular play Rodgers had only enough time for ONE option, the receiver that was his primary target, Davante Adams. Rodgers DID NOT have time to look at any of the other 3 receivers. MVS and Lazard would have been terrible options. Both probably tackled short, game over.

There is a big difference between a play call, with various receivers being the primary and secondary targets and what actually happens during the play. This is a classic example of people using hindsight and saying "Tonyan should have been his primary target." and carrying that into "Rodgers should have seen Adams was covered and threw the ball to Tonyan, this is proof Rodgers only looks for Adams". Which is what you and some others were saying after the game. One poster even saying he should have taken the sack. No timeouts, 7 seconds on clock, a sack?

How do you fix this problem that some have with Adams getting a lot of passes and first reads? Ask yourself, why wasn't Tonyan, MVS or Lazard his primary target on this critical last play of the game? Bottom line, until Gute gets Rodgers better and more reliable receiving weapons, Adams is most likely going to be his go to guy. If Rodgers is afforded more time, which he wasn't on this play, he will find other targets like Tonyan.

Said it b4

I didnt like the play as there was only one spot he was going.

I understand the WHY..dont think I dont.

I just dont LIKE it

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Said it b4

I didnt like the play as there was only one spot he was going.

I understand the WHY..dont think I dont.

I just dont LIKE it

LOL....well if you go back to yours and others first posts concerning this play, you didn't know all these things at this time.

Again, maybe I am sensitive about this, but I really dislike when the media and talking heads try to use a play like this to be critical of Rodgers. FOX showing Tonyan "wide open" in the endzone, with no other narrative of the play is typical of this.

I'm not saying Rodgers is God or perfect on every play, but I think because he is so good at his craft, people try a bit too hard to try and prove he isn't as good as advertised.

I always try to look at a play like this inside of Rodgers body and how he would be viewing it from field level and in real time. Granted, I would trip and fall on my *** coming out from under center, but Rodgers has a great knack for seeing a lot of the field, just not what some expect that he should, when they are viewing it from above on replay in slow motion or frame by frame.

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you ARE Aaron Rodgers and have the experiences with your current receiving group that he has had, who do you have the most confidence in?

 

[Mondio]

Why is Williams better suited? Have you not watched Jones on goal line runs this past year and a half? He is much stronger than he looks, able to shift directions very quickly with great vision, has excellent leverage and has scored a lot of TDs. Though I will say our O line often gets pushed back and nobody can get the yard when that happens. I wonder if that gets better with Jenkins at center.

why is williams not suited to be on the field? Yes Jones is stronger than he looks, he also gets tossed down like a rag doll sometimes. I do not think he's a stronger runner with bodies stack up on a consistent basis. They usually run WIlliams on short yardage and he's been pretty good at it. Teams know this, it's on film repeatedly. he also gives them a very good receiving option as an outlet and in passing patterns, he's also the better pass protector. They thought they could get them guessing run because they usually run short yardage with him. They didn't buy it.

It happens. Jones wasn't getting open on that play either. everyone knows Jones is the more explosive player, it doesn't mean everything works because he's in, or when it doesn't, the failure isn't always because he wasn't in. But someone would like us to believe that.