Studs and Duds vs Seahawks

[Sanguine camper]

I think its a case of over exuberance with Valentine. It was his first career interception. Can't imagine the glee he felt at that moment and wanted to compound that into an even bigger play which could've backfired.
John

 

[Thirteen Below]

I'm also getting comfortable with McManus. He's turning into a steady performer for us.

I'm totally, 100% sold on him, and have been since about Week 2 or 3 of his tenure.

I'm not sure how how many people realize just how good a job he's doing. Out of all kickers in the NFL who have attempted more than 6 field goals, his 93.3% (14/15) is 3rd - trailing only Folk at 95.5 (naturally he's at the top of the list), and "****er the Kicker" (Cameron ****er), who's on fire for the Chargers at 96.6. Except for Crosby's perfect season 5 years ago, no kicker in the history of our franchise has ever had a better year than he is having so far.

MacManus has just quietly and reliably run out onto the field and banged that ball through the uprights, week in and week out. And every week, his stats just keep inching up. 14 of 15 for FG and a perfect 23 on extra points. with Narveson, Joseph, or Carlson out there, we'd probably be 9-5 or 8-4. He's having a huge impact.

 

[OldSchool101]

I hope the coaches patted him on the butt, said "great coverage, nice interception, but next time, kneel down with the ball." Not a smart move on Valentine's part to almost get tackled in the EZ and still try to keep going, especially given the score of the game at the time. Unless you see a clear path to easily get past the 20 and beyond, take the turnover and the ball at the 20.

It’s true. That said he showcased some really good moves. I think it’s the same confidence that makes him good that makes him want to play proactively. As long as he keeps INT passes in the Paint I’ll gladly accept the risky return attempt. Just don’t make him a KR!

I saw this video breakdown of that play. Valentine played that so perfectly it almost brought a tear on replay. He did us proud that was a Mary Lou Retton 10.0 he stuck it! So much they stopped film to look him up they couldn’t believe how perfectly he played Lockett positionally, then broke off like he was Patrick Peterson Prime and turned WR. They were like “who is Carrington Valentine?”
Then he tried playing KR which brought him back down to Earth!

I’m telling you guys. These young guys are starting to rise. Edgerrin Cooper got better just since Week 4-5. He looks like a Probowl LB out there. THAT is what Young will get us. Inconsistent at first, then just marked jumps onto new plateaus. We are Vikings level and rising and I’m fully aware of that statement. We’re about to see our FlexTE1 back in the mix.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Walker is terrible in coverage. He doesn’t excel, or even approach ‘good’, at any linebacker roles. He’s just not an adequate NFL linebacker.

Yeah I admit I'm just repeating oft heard lines, that Walker is good in coverage. I don't watch that carefully. I still think he is good in coverage given his height, weight, wingspan and range - but overall he's been JAG - and a first round JAG at that.

Wilson, McDuffie, and Cooper all seem to be better, with Cooper showing Pro Bowl/All Pro potential. Cooper's presence makes me realize how long it's been since the Packers have had an impact guy at LB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Not sure but as far back as the old AFL days it was down where you intercepted the ball initially. Backward progress was not treated the same as forward progress.

You have a good memory. I think it was like this in college ball - down at the point of interception - but maybe I'm thinking of recovered fumbles.

As for this whole safety discussion, a ball intercepted in the end zone is always a safety if the defender takes a knee, or is tackled as long as he doesn't leave the end zone and step back in (rare). Even more rare, if there is a penalty called on the D while the defender still has the ball in the EZ and is trying to run it out.

 

[mradtke66]

Yeah I admit I'm just repeating oft heard lines, that Walker is good in coverage. I don't watch that carefully. I still think he is good in coverage given his height, weight, wingspan and range

It's odd. He certainly get beat, but there have also been times when he's been able to run with TEs down the seam. It's the problem with many fans. Either a guy is great or he's terrible. AND we over-remember the bad plays and under remember the mundane ones.

I think Quay is better than a JAG, though he has his flaws.

Wilson, McDuffie, and Cooper all seem to be better,

Cooper has given us more impact plays, though I'm not sure I'd say better. He certainly has the tools to grow into something better than Quay is right now.

Wilson and McDuffie though...naw. Both players are decidedly limited. Wilson IS the definition of a JAG. 30 years old. On his 4th team. He's a solid player and I'm glad to have him, in a perfect world, he's our 5th and a special teamer. Him as our 4th or a situational player is still pretty darn good.

McDuffie...I love the guy, but he is physically limited. He's a smart player, knows what he needs to do, you see it on film, it's wonderful, and he hits great....but his body isn't as good as his brain. There are times where he's heading to the right hole and he just can't get there in time. Or the offense has too easy of a block because he's too slow. In a perfect world, he's our 4th and a special teamer. Him as our 3rd or a situational player is still pretty darn good.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I’m telling you guys. These young guys are starting to rise.

One place the Packer need more rise out of young guys is at CB. Besides Rasul Douglas, who was the last Packer CB to play better than expected? I used to blame Joe Whitt Jr. for the lack of CB development, but he's been long gone and out the door.

 

[formerlybis]

As for this whole safety discussion, a ball intercepted in the end zone is always a safety if the defender takes a knee, or is tackled as long as he doesn't leave the end zone and step back in (rare). Even more rare, if there is a penalty called on the D while the defender still has the ball in the EZ and is trying to run it out.

You mean touchback, not safety.

 

[Heyjoe4]

You mean touchback, not safety.

Oops! Good catch, thanks. I think that'e enough of this topic, at least for me!

 

[Thirteen Below]

McDuffie...I love the guy, but he is physically limited. He's a smart player, knows what he needs to do, you see it on film, it's wonderful, and he hits great....but his body isn't as good as his brain. There are times where he's heading to the right hole and he just can't get there in time. Or the offense has too easy of a block because he's too slow.

Put McDuffie's brain in Walker's head, and he'd be all-pro. Quay's dumber than a rock. Sometimes Wonderlics don't necessarily mean all that much, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Walker's score was 12 out of 50.

 

[Schultz]

I think if you remember your birthday you get a 10.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Put McDuffie's brain in Walker's head, and he'd be all-pro. Quay's dumber than a rock. Sometimes Wonderlics don't necessarily mean all that much, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Walker's score was 12 out of 50.

Hey now! I had a pet rock and it was pretty damn smart! I could leave it on the desk and it never go into trouble!

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[Sanguine camper]

Put McDuffie's brain in Walker's head, and he'd be all-pro. Quay's dumber than a rock. Sometimes Wonderlics don't necessarily mean all that much, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Walker's score was 12 out of 50.

I don't think anybody is going to get Walker mixed up with Jonathan Taylor who was a physics major at Wisconsin. That said, some guys do poorly on the Wonderlic and still manage to have a good career.

 

[Thirteen Below]

I don't think anybody is going to get Walker mixed up with Jonathan Taylor who was a physics major at Wisconsin. That said, some guys do poorly on the Wonderlic and still manage to have a good career.

Yep, and we have an example of that lining up a few yards from Walker on almost every snap - Xavier McKinney. He's one of the smartest football players you'll ever meet; a tremendous football IQ. But his Wonderlic was 11.

So yeah, it's not always an infallible indicator by any means. Tony Dungy said Chuck Knoll taught him that when the test doesn't match the tape, trust the tape and forget the test. Players whose game is instinctive and fast-reacting don't need high IQs, and that's exactly the kind of player McKinney is. Walker? Not by any means.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think Walker fits a specific role.. There is exactly 0% chance Walker would make it Day 3 in a draft redo imo. Walker might not be an All Pro, but he’s absolutely a physical presence and an integral part of our Defensive improvement.
Top 10 Yards
Top 8 Points
Top 9 Run
Top 15 Pass
Top 4 Turnover%
Top 7 Yards per Play (Tied w/KC)
Top 10 Rushing TD
Top 11 Receiving TD
Top 7 INT
Top 8 Sacks
Top 7 Sack yardage
Top 9 FF
Top 3 Fumbles Recovered
Top 12 Hurries

Was Quay Walker worth a #22 overall selection? No
Would Jeff Hafley assign Quay Walker as the Green Dot LB if he thought he was dumb? No.

 

[gopkrs]

I think Walker fits a specific role. He might not be worthy of a #22 overall. Yet he’s a good LB. There is exactly 0% chance Walker would make it Day 3 in a draft redo.

And he has been playing very well lately. So has McDuffie.

 

[OldSchool101]

And he has been playing very well lately. So has McDuffie.

Absolutely. I think part of that is these guys are getting accustomed to their roles on Defense. I think we would all agree that the majority of players transitioning into a new system are going to play better in the latter 1/2 of their first Season with brand new DC.
That’s why I believe that we are seeing noticeable improvements lately. We’re allowing just 18.8 pts/gm after our Bye Week. That after being warned how Miami and Seattle were tearing everyone apart on Offense.
Well our Defense stifled them.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yep, and we have an example of that lining up a few yards from Walker on almost every snap - Xavier McKinney. He's one of the smartest football players you'll ever meet; a tremendous football IQ. But his Wonderlic was 11.

So yeah, it's not always an infallible indicator by any means. Tony Dungy said Chuck Knoll taught him that when the test doesn't match the tape, trust the tape and forget the test. Players whose game is instinctive and fast-reacting don't need high IQs, and that's exactly the kind of player McKinney is. Walker? Not by any means.

I think you're right. Guys can play fast and still be lousy. Some guys are fast and almost always end up around the ball. I think it's intuition rather than intellect that prevails. Even the smartest guys on the field, by whatever measure, are reacting in milliseconds. I don't think that has anything to do with intellect/smarts. Some guys are born with talent but mostly it's study and practice and snaps that make the difference.

As for Walker - he looks like the archetype for the modern LB - tall, lean, strong, rangy and fast. That just hasn't translated into production. On a positive note - Cooper is so good that he's bound to make guys around him better. That's just attitude and healthy competition between teammates.

 

[Heyjoe4]

And he has been playing very well lately. So has McDuffie.

Cooper has been a star but LB group together has been playing better as the season gets long. Maybe I'm wrong but I think Walker plays better with Cooper. I also think McDuffie and Wilson are better than most LBs.

 

[OldSchool101]

Cooper has been a star but LB group together has been playing better as the season gets long. Maybe I'm wrong but I think Walker plays better with Cooper. I also think McDuffie and Wilson are better than most LBs.

I noticed that also.
I watched a recent interview with Hafley. He mentioned that when you watch film of our LB’s from the first couple of games and watch our LB’s today, how much faster they are playing to the ball. He said it’s like night and day. He attributed to comfort in what he’s asking them to do and they are playing a little more and thinking a little less.

The other thing he said is that his guys are doing better getting into correct positioning but when watching at Detroit he felt they were very close from making a few more drive stops but just a little more consistency is the next step.