Studs and Duds vs Seahawks

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like Pokerbrat says, there should be someone upstairs, preferably not nearsighted, looking at the replay. And for me, not calling that timeout is ridiculous. What's he saving it for? And he had two of them

Yup and yet he calls timeouts before the half when the other team has the ball and the Packers defense isn't making stops. I just don't get his philosophy when it comes to the final 5 minutes of the halves. I understand that he wants the ball before half and leave no time on the clock for the other team, but come on Matt, get real!

 

[milani]

It was a great game. Love played very well. In fact I don't think he missed a throw. The receivers missed the catch and those were few and far between.

The defense was on fire! I saw very few mistakes and couple of those seemed ticky tacky to me.

I want to give kudos to Jacobs, Watson, Reed, Wicks and of course Love. I think I'll also include LaFleur. I thought he called a great game.

On defense Clark, Valentine, Enagbare and all the guys that filled in for injured players.

The officials missed some and were ticky tacky on some calls but overall I thought they did ok.

Great game. Now on to the Saints.

MLF had the team ready. Hafley as well. Seattle is a good team especially at home. Had Gino avoided injury it would have made for quite a 4th quarter. The backup QB was unprepared and could not read the routes. His progression was slow as molasses. It had to be fun for our DL.

 

[milani]

Dud: Stokes

Watch him in the upper part of the screen. He begins the play with his mouthguard out and when he sees a blocker coming his way, decides to hesitate and put the damn thing in! Meanwhile, Charbonnet runs right by him for an easy TD.

If you aren't going to wear a mouthguard from snap to finish, then F'ing don't have one dangling from your helmet!

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Probably the Seahawks best play of the game. Maybe their only play.

 

[milani]

Before you all jump on me for my rant, I'll give out a few stud nods:
-Matt LaFleur for cramming the running game down the cram hole. We jumped out to a 14-0 lead behind the running game. Stick to what you are good at until someone stops you.
-Valentine and Cooper for dropping potential INTs and then staying focused enough to later get their first career INTs
-OL did a great job of run blocking and pass protecting
-WR & TEs blocked extremely well
-DL was hungry. Loved it
-Josh Jacobs is a beast. Keep feeding him the rock.

Rants:
- To everyone who got on me about my criticism of LaFleur against the Lions... watch how the Bills attacked the Lions' weak LBs and DL. Nothing changed from last week to this week except a smarter coordinator feasted on the Lions. We should have been able to do that too.
- Jacobs was great again. When the Seahawks adjusted to stop the inside run in the second half, LaFleur mostly obliged by running ineffective plays up the gut and then quickly turning to the pass. On ONE occasion he ran a jet sweep to Reed. When the other team stacks the inside, LaFleur needs to run to the outside and call plays that stretch the defense laterally. Matt seems to be losing his creativity at the wrong time.

For the record, I am a Matt LaFleur fan but I am seeing cracks in our armor at the wrong time of the season. He seems to be struggling to call effective/adaptive game plans while also managing the team as head coach, as the failed challenge flags have evidenced. Jordan Love needs every bit of support right now from Matt LaFleur and Tom Clements. Matt is generally great, but right now needs some help to get back on top of his game.

I like the run pounding and using Jacobs. But you can over pound. We have to use our other backs at some point. The Cowboys over worked Emmit Smith for years. I would like to see Jacobs around for a while.
Now the Bills did exploit the weak areas of the Lion D. But they have a great OL and maybe the league MVP under center.

 

[JKramer64]

Dare I say that the outside CB's, Valentine (90.2 PFF) and Stokes (77.8 PFF) were studs? Valentine had two PD's and an INT. Stokes gave up 2 catches for 10 yards. Metcalf and Lockett weren't factors, combined 4 catches for 50 yards. The pass defense was only hurt by the slot, Jackson-Njigba, and most of his damage was in the middle of the field.

 

[milani]

Dare I say that the outside CB's, Valentine (90.2 PFF) and Stokes (77.8 PFF) were studs? Valentine had two PD's and an INT. Stokes gave up 2 catches for 10 yards. Metcalf and Lockett weren't factors, combined 4 catches for 50 yards. The pass defense was only hurt by the slot, Jackson-Njigba, and most of his damage was in the middle of the field.

I would not be to zealous about it although they did play well. The 2nd half they got to face a QB that took a week to go through his progressions and was on the ground a lot. In 2 weeks when we face Darnold and the Air Force we shall see what they can do.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Watch him in the upper part of the screen. He begins the play with his mouthguard out and when he sees a blocker coming his way, decides to hesitate and put the damn thing in! Meanwhile, Charbonnet runs right by him for an easy TD.

He probably never even dreamed that he'd ever get close enough to a Seahawk to collide with him. I mean, how often does that happen?

 

[tynimiller]

Dare I say that the outside CB's, Valentine (90.2 PFF) and Stokes (77.8 PFF) were studs? Valentine had two PD's and an INT. Stokes gave up 2 catches for 10 yards. Metcalf and Lockett weren't factors, combined 4 catches for 50 yards. The pass defense was only hurt by the slot, Jackson-Njigba, and most of his damage was in the middle of the field.

Second half was a breeze for them but they still made it impossible for Howell to get going - someone who has thrown a lot of passes for a young QB.

Stokes had a massive miscue on a run but otherwise played about as well as we have seen in a while.

In truth there is a chance Stokes is finally getting past the mental hurdle of returning - I know it seems odd but many have claimed it can be a half a year to a full year before you feel “right”. Stokes is never likely to be the CB1 many thought before injuries but if he can lay down above average games like this, that is a massive win for GB.

I much prefer him in coverage than Nixon who is a very hot or cold guy snap to snap….stokes typically gives you consistent play, even if it is lukewarm

 

[Heyjoe4]

In the offseason I am a big time supporter of Gutekunst and LaFleur. We're on our way to the playoffs, and rightfully so. However, I'm seeing the things right now that will eventually prevent us from winning the Lombardi trophy.

I'd like to think that Matt is holding back a few things, but it is a rare coach that gets to that level of mastery.

Yeah at this time of year, where every game is so big, it's hard to think a HC would hold much back. I'm sure it depends somewhat on the opponent, and the game plan changes depending on the opponents' success. I sure didn't think the queens would have such a good year with Darnold at QB. First thought wrong again. They will be a tough out.

Then again, the Packers are pretty locked into a 5 or 6 seed, possibly a 7th. My point is that the WC seeding doesn't matter much - it means a road-game path to the SB. That hasn't been much of a problem for the Packers in the past. If anything, they seem to play better in the playoffs on the road. Eventually, if they are gonna get to the SB, they'll be playing in Detroit or Philly.

My biggest hope ahead of the playoffs is that the Packers beat the queens in two weeks. After that, one game at a time.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Second half was a breeze for them but they still made it impossible for Howell to get going - someone who has thrown a lot of passes for a young QB.

Stokes had a massive miscue on a run but otherwise played about as well as we have seen in a while.

In truth there is a chance Stokes is finally getting past the mental hurdle of returning - I know it seems odd but many have claimed it can be a half a year to a full year before you feel “right”. Stokes is never likely to be the CB1 many thought before injuries but if he can lay down above average games like this, that is a massive win for GB.

I much prefer him in coverage than Nixon who is a very hot or cold guy snap to snap….stokes typically gives you consistent play, even if it is lukewarm

I'd love nothing more than for Stokes to become a guy the Packers need to keep. And both of you are right, the CBs played well against a very good passing offense, notwithstanding Smith's injury. If Stokes can play better than JAG, that would be welcome. And maybe he can.

Regardless, I'm sure Gluten will overhaul the CB group, much as he just did with the safeties. I don't think anyone currently on the CB roster should feel safe about playing in GB next year. And Nixon's value as a returner has diminished with the new kickoff rule. (FWIW, the two holding calls on Nixon Sunday night were pretty weak.)

 

[rmontro]

My biggest hope ahead of the playoffs is that the Packers beat the queens in two weeks. After that, one game at a time.

That game probably isn't going to be very important, seeding-wise. But it would be a nice confidence boost and momentum going into the playoffs.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That game probably isn't going to be very important, seeding-wise. But it would be a nice confidence boost and momentum going into the playoffs.

Thanks that's what I was trying to say. Beating the seahags in Seattle and the queens in MN is a great confidence boost heading into the playoffs.

 

[thequick12]

Stud : Jacobs, Cooper, Doubs
Duds : MLF Challenges, 2 minute drill

As mentioned in the game thread, someone needs to staple the flag to his pants so it can't be thrown. At least MLF fessed up to the 2 minute drill dumpster fire at the end of the 1st half.

MLF has to be the worst coach in the league when it comes to the challenge flag. Idk who they have watching replays to determine if a particular play is worth challenging...but whoever it is unfortunately has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they need to be replaced and like ASAP That sht gonna cost us a game at some point. Can't be missing stuff or wasting timeouts like that in the NFL

In all fairness, you don't know if it cost us a TD. It might have prevented a turnover.

While you are correct, there's no way of knowing what would of happened. You can't argue that there was gross mismanagement of the clock. Which resulted in the Packers missing an opportunity to put a td on the board. Im sure you agree it would have been better to have given themselves a chance at 6

 

[Heyjoe4]

MLF has to be the worst coach in the league when it comes to the challenge flag. Idk who they have watching replays to determine if a particular play is worth challenging...but whoever it is unfortunately has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they need to be replaced and like ASAP That sht gonna cost us a game at some point. Can't be missing stuff or wasting timeouts like that in the NFL



While you are correct, there's no way of knowing what would of happened. You can't argue that there was gross mismanagement of the clock. Which resulted in the Packers missing an opportunity to put a td on the board. Im sure you agree it would have been better to have given themselves a chance at 6

I don't understand MLF's misuse of the red flag. Against the Lions he used it to challenge a ball placement. That's the worst possible use of the flag imo. The refs do a remarkable job for the most part on a very subjective call. And because it's such a subjective call, it's crazy to challenge it.

Very rarely there are cases where the ball is placed a yard off. These cases are very easy to see by anyone watching, and usually happen when only one ref gets a view of the spot, and is wrong. But it just doesn't happen very often.

And to your point, the teams must have spotters in the booth advising the HC on when to use the flag. Whoever they are for GB, they're doing a lousy job.

Poor clock management has been one of the few but consistent lowlights of MLF's tenure. It seems like the team almost always hits the two minute mark with only two TOs left.

 

[Firethorn1001]

That game probably isn't going to be very important, seeding-wise. But it would be a nice confidence boost and momentum going into the playoffs.

Going to be an odd 3 weeks. By the time they play Monday night, possible that they have a playoff slot locked up and they are only realistically playing to be the 6th or 7th seed. I can't recall a scenario like this. Once you clinch this early, normally playing for better seeding and the division with 3 games left. You want the team to be consistent and having their play continue to improve, but really the next 3 games are somewhat meaningless so MLF will have his work cut out. Tough to put the foot back on the gas if you pull back for weeks at a time. Bears might even break their streak... I'd expect Love to either not start or only play a quarter in the last game and the Packers will treat it somewhat like a bye IMHO.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Going to be an odd 3 weeks. By the time they play Monday night, possible that they have a playoff slot locked up and they are only realistically playing to be the 6th or 7th seed. I can't recall a scenario like this. Once you clinch this early, normally playing for better seeding and the division with 3 games left. You want the team to be consistent and having their play continue to improve, but really the next 3 games are somewhat meaningless so MLF will have his work cut out. Tough to put the foot back on the gas if you pull back for weeks at a time. Bears might even break their streak... I'd expect Love to either not start or only play a quarter in the last game and the Packers will treat it somewhat like a bye IMHO.

Yeah if they know their seed # and that it won't change, win or lose against the Bearz, then MLF can pull some starters early in the game. It's hard to imagine that the seeding would be locked going into that game, but if it is, sure, treat it like a bye. Other than that, the higher the seed the better.

 

[gopkrs]

I don't understand MLF's misuse of the red flag. Against the Lions he used it to challenge a ball placement. That's the worst possible use of the flag imo. The refs do a remarkable job for the most part on a very subjective call. And because it's such a subjective call, it's crazy to challenge it.

The refs get that wrong sometimes. Just like TD calls. Personally, I don't think they showed a good angle on that particular call. You can't just think, well that play is over. Definitely need a sharp eye in the booth for that though.

 

[gopkrs]

Going to be an odd 3 weeks. By the time they play Monday night, possible that they have a playoff slot locked up and they are only realistically playing to be the 6th or 7th seed. I can't recall a scenario like this. Once you clinch this early, normally playing for better seeding and the division with 3 games left. You want the team to be consistent and having their play continue to improve, but really the next 3 games are somewhat meaningless so MLF will have his work cut out. Tough to put the foot back on the gas if you pull back for weeks at a time. Bears might even break their streak... I'd expect Love to either not start or only play a quarter in the last game and the Packers will treat it somewhat like a bye IMHO.

That's a tough call imho. Yeah, taking the foot off the gas can take away your edge. It's screwed us in the past. Definitely don't want to just rest everyone completely. I say win the games.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Lots of studs, not many duds. Only thing I wanted to call out was how amazing it is to have an actually GOOD inside linebacker on the field. Never happy when a player gets hurt but the difference in the defense when Walker was taking the majority of snaps in coverage verse Cooper taking those snaps was HUGE. Cooper played like a future All-Pro against the Seachickens and should only get better as he gets more snaps under his belt.

Edit: Also need to call out what a huge disappointment Van Ness continues to be. And, while not his fault, picking Jordan Morgan over Cooper DeJean is looking like a terrible decision as each week passes. As of right now, Gute appears to have really screwed up that decision. An OG that hasn't really contributed in a meaningful capacity when healthy against a rookie that is playing like one of the best corners in the NFL. Maybe it pans out if Morgan turns it around and becomes a dominant guard in the next couple seasons but, in general, an elite corner is almost always more valuable than an elite OG.

 

[El Guapo]

The refs get that wrong sometimes. Just like TD calls. Personally, I don't think they showed a good angle on that particular call. You can't just think, well that play is over. Definitely need a sharp eye in the booth for that though.

After the Lions game, LaFleur said that the challenges are a combination of what he sees live and what his staff sees in the booth on the television broadcast. Someone here already stated that LaFleur seems to throw the flag with too much emotion and not enough thought in his decisions. The guys in the booth are seeing the broadcast the same as us, but only have probably 5-10 seconds to give a recommendation. We get more time to second-guess it before the staff communicates and LaFleur has to decide to throw it or not.

All that said, I completely agree that the intern (or whomever it is) up there needs to be reassigned. The decision to throw the flag should only be made if the staff sees conclusive evidence -- a no doubter -- or if it's 50/50 and the team might normally use a timeout in this situation.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The refs get that wrong sometimes. Just like TD calls. Personally, I don't think they showed a good angle on that particular call. You can't just think, well that play is over. Definitely need a sharp eye in the booth for that though.

Yeah and there's also the element of time. The person in the booth has only so long before the ball is snapped again. Unless it's clear to everyone watching, I'm just not crazy about challenging ball placement.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Lots of studs, not many duds. Only thing I wanted to call out was how amazing it is to have an actually GOOD inside linebacker on the field. Never happy when a player gets hurt but the difference in the defense when Walker was taking the majority of snaps in coverage verse Cooper taking those snaps was HUGE. Cooper played like a future All-Pro against the Seachickens and should only get better as he gets more snaps under his belt.

Edit: Also need to call out what a huge disappointment Van Ness continues to be. And, while not his fault, picking Jordan Morgan over Cooper DeJean is looking like a terrible decision as each week passes. As of right now, Gute appears to have really screwed up that decision. An OG that hasn't really contributed in a meaningful capacity when healthy against a rookie that is playing like one of the best corners in the NFL. Maybe it pans out if Morgan turns it around and becomes a dominant guard in the next couple seasons but, in general, an elite corner is almost always more valuable than an elite OG.

A little ironic that both LVN and DeJean played at Iowa. Can't get em all right. Gluten seems to be much better at finding value in later rounds. But missing on DeJean is disappointing.

Cooper is an impact player. The Packers haven't had a LB this good since CMIII. And I think Cooper and Walker complement each other. With Cooper playing, Walker can focus on coverage and run stopping. Cooper is much better at getting to the QB and getting side to side.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That's a tough call imho. Yeah, taking the foot off the gas can take away your edge. It's screwed us in the past. Definitely don't want to just rest everyone completely. I say win the games.

I don't think final seeding will be known until the season plays out. I expect they'll play the next three games like playoff games.

 

[Schultz]

I only have one knock on Love, otherwise perty darn good. Late in the game he made another one of those on the run to his right and threw across his body into the middle of the field. To me this was even more egregious than the pick against SF. In that instance they were behind, and time was running out. Here GB had control of the game, no need for a risky throw there. Fortunately, a lot more good than bad. Love and the boys looked good.

 

[mradtke66]

Lots of studs, not many duds. Only thing I wanted to call out was how amazing it is to have an actually GOOD inside linebacker on the field. Never happy when a player gets hurt but the difference in the defense when Walker was taking the majority of snaps in coverage verse Cooper taking those snaps was HUGE.

I don't think this was an either/or situation. The defense is better with Cooper on the field that without, but he's missed the last few weeks. I still prefer the two of them out there.

I also don't think they've played a significant amount of Dime this year, but I cannot find that information right now, so they normally have at least 2 off the ball linebackers.