Studs and Duds vs Seahawks

[Pokerbrat2000]

Dud: Stokes

Watch him in the upper part of the screen. He begins the play with his mouthguard out and when he sees a blocker coming his way, decides to hesitate and put the damn thing in! Meanwhile, Charbonnet runs right by him for an easy TD.

If you aren't going to wear a mouthguard from snap to finish, then F'ing don't have one dangling from your helmet!

x.com

x.com

 

[OldSchool101]

Stud:
Offense
GB has averaged 29.8 Offensive Points since the Bye.
GB “ “ “ “ 18.8 Defensive Points Allowed since the Bye
+55

Dud:
Clock usage and Challenge Flags

Someone needs to take that Red flag away from Matt and run away both hard and fast. He has no idea what he’s doing there and he’s too cute bits almost like a security blanket to dissuade everyone from our most vulnerable moments. Wasting Timeouts are getting ridiculous imo.

I also agree we have some things to tighten up. Maybe 200% agree. That said this was a WONDERFUL barometer. If we can clean up these mental details then we can match the Lions physical assertiveness and top them with intellectual acuity.

A Good ? Was asked by someone in the media last week. It really had me guessing I’m not sure I could answer it with confidence until last night.

Are the Packers closer to the Lions or closer to the Seahawks??

Answer: closer to the Lions

 

[OOMPA Tailgate]

It was the 4th quarter ; like on the seapigeon 30 yard line; 3rd and 2
maybe 6 mins to go

WHY PASS THE DAMM BALL!?!?!?

Now; it's 4th and 2...GB runs the ball...WHAT?!? WHAT?!?

That and the challenge were the biggest duds

 

[OOMPA Tailgate]

We did struggle a little running in the second half.

hate to say it - hardly ran the ball at all

 

[gopkrs]

hate to say it - hardly ran the ball at all

We definitely tried to. Too often. Just wasn't anywhere to run from the tackles inside to the center. Seattle changed that at half time and we did not adjust. Until late in the game when we took it outside.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think you stick with what’s working. We’ve been too predictable on 3rd n short. We started by throwing to our RB’s and then got away from it 2nd half. It’s not like we didn’t have success.
5/5 51 yards 10.2 per target.

Why run into a pile of 7 Defenders shooting 3 different Gaps

Again. Not taking away from bigger picture. Overall we just dominated them at their house. Really just taking it to that next level A grade stuff is what I’m picking on. Playing B+ grade on a C scale will win a bunch of games. Playing A grade will win a SB

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Are the Packers closer to the Lions or closer to the Seahawks??

I kind of disagree. Unless of course, the Packers play perfect football against the Lions. I don't want to take anything away from the win last night, but if the Packers played that same game against Dan Campbell and the Lions, we lose.

Great first half, but as soon as the Packers seem to build a big lead, they get conservative and stupid on both sides of the ball and worse, on the coaching side as well. I honestly wonder how that game ends if Geno Smith hadn't gotten injured.

If MLF and the Packers want to beat the Lions and Eagles, they are going to have to play smarter and better. They can't be getting inside the 10 yard line and settling for FG's either.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think you stick with what’s working. We’ve been too predictable on 3rd n short. We started by throwing to our RB’s and then got away from it 2nd half. It’s not like we didn’t have success.
5/5 51 yards 10.2 per target.

Why run into a pile of 7 Defenders shooting 3 different Gaps

Agree.

This is the part of Love and MLF that has to get better. MLF needs to get more creative on his calls or pass that job over to an OC. If that doesn't happen, then Love needs to break the offensive huddle with 15+ seconds on the play clock and assess the defense. If the play called looks doomed, audible out.

Personally, I would like to see Love roll out more, use his legs if he needs to, to pick up those first downs or score a TD.

 

[AmishMafia]

Agree.

This is the part of Love and MLF that has to get better. MLF needs to get more creative on his calls or pass that job over to an OC. If that doesn't happen, then Love needs to break the offensive huddle with 15+ seconds on the play clock and assess the defense. If the play called looks doomed, audible out.

Personally, I would like to see Love roll out more, use his legs if he needs to, to pick up those first downs or score a TD.

Seems that when they were tight in the box on defense, we should lineup under center, do a playaction short slant or long pass on the outside to watson.

 

[OOMPA Tailgate]

Well I downloaded the transcript (pdf file) from packers.com

Here goes and read from the 3rd quarter on

and this proves my point

GB 3rd quarter

1st pos
1st and 10 - pass
2nd and 2 - pass
3rd and 1 - run for -3
punt (the good ol' 3 and out)

2nd pos
1st and 10 - pass incomplete 9PI on seapigeons)
1st and 10 - run for -3
2nd and 13 - pass
3rd and 4 -pass (made a 1st down)
1st and 10 - might be a run
2nd and 3 - pass
3rd and 3 - pass (false start GB)
3rd and 10 - pass
4-1 FG

3rd pos
1st and 10 -run for 3
2nd and 10 - pass
3rd and 3 - pass
3 and out

4th pos
1st and 10 - pass
2nd and - run for 6 (fumble)

5th pos
1st and 10 - pass
2nd and 10 - pass
3rd and 10 - pass
3 and out

6th pos
1st and 10 - pass (1st down)
1st and 10- pass (1st down)
1st and 10 - pass (1st down)
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 4
3rd and 2 - pass
4th and 2 - run (WTF!?!?)

7th pos
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 1
3rd and 5 - pass to Doubs TD

8th pos (3 mins to go)
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 4
3rd and 2 - pass (AGAIN WTF)
punt
game over

We definitely tried to. Too often. Just wasn't anywhere to run from the tackles inside to the center. Seattle changed that at half time and we did not adjust. Until late in the game when we took it outside.

 

[OOMPA Tailgate]

We definitely tried to. Too often. Just wasn't anywhere to run from the tackles inside to the center. Seattle changed that at half time and we did not adjust. Until late in the game when we took it outside.

Well I downloaded the transcript (pdf file) from packers.com

Here goes and read from the 3rd quarter on

and this proves my point

GB 3rd quarter

1st pos
1st and 10 - pass
2nd and 2 - pass
3rd and 1 - run for -3
punt (the good ol' 3 and out)

2nd pos
1st and 10 - pass incomplete (PI on seapigeons)
1st and 10 - run for -3
2nd and 13 - pass
3rd and 4 -pass (made a 1st down)
1st and 10 - might be a run
2nd and 3 - pass
3rd and 3 - pass (false start GB)
3rd and 10 - pass
4-1 FG

3rd pos
1st and 10 -run for 3
2nd and 10 - pass
3rd and 3 - pass
3 and out

4th pos
1st and 10 - pass
2nd and - run for 6 (fumble)

5th pos
1st and 10 - pass
2nd and 10 - pass
3rd and 10 - pass
3 and out

6th pos
1st and 10 - pass (1st down)
1st and 10- pass (1st down)
1st and 10 - pass (1st down)
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 4
3rd and 2 - pass
4th and 2 - run (WTF!?!?)

7th pos
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 1
3rd and 5 - pass to Doubs TD

8th pos (3 mins to go)
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 4
3rd and 2 - pass (AGAIN WTF)
punt
game over

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Seems that when they were tight in the box on defense, we should lineup under center, do a playaction short slant or long pass on the outside to watson.

I am not a fan of a long pass on 3rd and short, unless of course the Packers are planning on going for it on 4th down. Love is still a young guy and has decent enough speed, that rolling him out on a RP option seems like the better plan to me on 3rd/4th and short. I wouldn't even be opposed to a fake handoff and a naked bootleg, with a TE sneaking out of the bunch, as a safety valve.

Anything is better than running it right up the middle into a stacked box.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For lack of a better place to put it... My thoughts go out to former Packer WR Grant DuBose. Scary time for him yesterday, but sounds like they are very optimistic that he will be fine.

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Dolphins' Grant DuBose has movement in extremities after scary hit to the head vs. Texans

Miami Dolphins wide receiver Grant DuBose remained in the hospital but had movement in all extremities after being stretchered off the field following a scary helmet-to-helmet hit against the Houston Texans on Sunday.

apnews.com

 

[Zartan]

Studs

Jacobs, Watson, Cooper

Duds

Matts end of 1st half clock management. That was just WTF...

 

[AmishMafia]

I am not a fan of a long pass on 3rd and short, unless of course the Packers are planning on going for it on 4th down. Love is still a young guy and has decent enough speed, that rolling him out on a RP option seems like the better plan to me on 3rd/4th and short. I wouldn't even be opposed to a fake handoff and a naked bootleg, with a TE sneaking out of the bunch, as a safety valve.

Anything is better than running it right up the middle into a stacked box.

Certainly not when we are winning and trying to milk the clock. My comment weren't directed at 3rd and short but game plan in general. When they began stacking the box, counter that with the quick playaction stuff. Make them pay! For some reason it doesn't seem very effective when it should be.

 

[Sanguine camper]

I wouldn't say the run game is a problem, actually the opposite.

Good point on Watson. He should be able to shred a zone defense from the middle. That said, MLF needs to game up some plays to make that happen.

The run game is getting yards but the yards per carry is dropping off. Jacobs especially in the last 3-4 weeks has seen his ypc start to go down compared to earlier in the season. I'd like to see a few more carries fir Wilson.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Studs

Jacobs, Watson, Cooper

Duds

Matts end of 1st half clock management. That was just WTF...

You're right. Problem MLF's in-game decision-making has been a problem and doesn't seem to be getting better. Can the Packers win a nail biter playoff game if MLF continues to make bad decisions?

 

[Half Empty]

6th pos
1st and 10 - pass (1st down)
1st and 10- pass (1st down)
1st and 10 - pass (1st down)
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 4
3rd and 2 - pass
4th and 2 - run (WTF!?!?)

7th pos
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 1
3rd and 5 - pass to Doubs TD

8th pos (3 mins to go)
1st and 10 - run for 4
2nd and 6 - run for 4
3rd and 2 - pass (AGAIN WTF)
punt
game over

Just curious. Is it just the difference between 4th and 3rd downs? Otherwise, a run attempt with 2 to go gets a WTF, and a pass attempt with 2 to go also gets a WTF

 

[OldSchool101]

I kind of disagree. Unless of course, the Packers play perfect football against the Lions. I don't want to take anything away from the win last night, but if the Packers played that same game against Dan Campbell and the Lions, we lose.

Great first half, but as soon as the Packers seem to build a big lead, they get conservative and stupid on both sides of the ball and worse, on the coaching side as well. I honestly wonder how that game ends if Geno Smith hadn't gotten injured.

If MLF and the Packers want to beat the Lions and Eagles, they are going to have to play smarter and better. They can't be getting inside the 10 yard line and settling for FG's either.

I agree with much of that. The way I think of that question though isn’t will the Packers beat the Lions or Eagles.

The way I interpret that question is if the Lions as a team have a Draft Value score of 7.0 and the Seahawks hover around a 6.0 (6.0 is still a very good graded team in that top 10-12 area) then GB is closer to that Lions 7.0 than Seattle at 6.0. I’d say GB is 6.65


Now. Fix those things you or I have mentioned? I think we’re very close to the Lions. Like a 6.8-6.9 That’s plenty close enough to beat a team humming along that makes a few mistakes.
It’s very likely the strategy that will haunt either team. Lions are a little too risky Packers are a little too timid.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Duds

Matts end of 1st half clock management. That was just WTF...

He has been horrible most of the season at the end of halves. It's almost like he is trying to be too cute and way too confident on his Offense and at times his Defense.

Now I will give him credit for this. Some teams would have been content with a 17-3 road lead at the end of last nights first half. Careen Valentine picked off Geno Smith in the EZ and returned the ball to the 14. After a 1st down holding call, 1st and 17 and 2:35 on the clock, the Packers very well could have just gotten conservative from their own 7. They didn't and drove the ball down and got a FG.

Side Note: What was Valentine thinking when he tried to return that Int. out of the EZ?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree with much of that. The way I think of that question though isn’t will the Packers beat the Lions or Eagles.

The way I interpret that question is if the Lions as a team have a Draft Value score of 7.0 and the Seahawks hover around a 6.0 (6.0 is still a very good graded team in that top 10-12 area) then GB is closer that 7.0 than a 6.0


Now. Fix those things you or I have mentioned? I think we’re very close to the Lions. Like a 6.85. That’s plenty close enough to beat a team humming along that makes a few mistakes.

You lost me at "Draft Value Score".

Let's not forget that the Packers are a lot healthier than the Lions. Now that doesn't matter if you are looking at playing them NOW, but if they meet up again, it probably won't be again for another month or so. The health of both teams will be important if that happens.

Set aside my loyalty and the future of both teams, if you asked me which Team would I bet on to get to the Super Bowl, it would hands down be the Lions. When healthy, they are the more talented team of the 2, as well as better coached.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Can the Packers win a nail biter playoff game if MLF continues to make bad decisions?

That is my concern as well.

The more hidden issue for me is that MLF is not getting play calls in fast enough to Love. I kept a close eye on that last night. Quite often, the Packer offense was breaking the huddle with less than 10 seconds on the play clock. Seattle was breaking the huddle closer to 20 seconds.

Those 10 extra seconds are a huge advantage for a QB to look over the defense and decide if he needs to audible out, shift protection, etc. MLF is handcuffing Love by not giving him and the offense that extra time on every play.

 

[OOMPA Tailgate]

Just curious. Is it just the difference between 4th and 3rd downs? Otherwise, a run attempt with 2 to go gets a WTF, and a pass attempt with 2 to go also gets a WTF

the 1st run attempt (on 4th down) was after a 3rd down pass attempt in the 4th quarter (makes no sense at all)

8th pos

3rd and 2 - why pass the ball at all?

it comes down to moronic play calling at a very bad time

 

[OldSchool101]

You lost me at "Draft Value Score".

Set aside my loyalty and the future of both teams, if you asked me which Team would I bet on to get to the Super Bowl, it would hands down be the Lions. When healthy, they are the more talented team of the 2, as well as better coached.

The question was never presented that way. Their question was presented as which are we (Packers) closer to. Not which are we better than

Let me put this in odds.

If the Packers played the Lions it would be odds of (this is my opinion in real time but bet I’m close)
-2.0 Lions at Lambeau
-3.0 Lions at Ford

If the Packers played the Seahawks it would be odds of
-5.5 Packers at Lambeau
-4.5 Packers at Seahawks

Neither infers The Packers are better than the Lions or Worse than the Seahawks. It 100% infers the Lions vs Packers is a better matchup.
“closer to” = “better matchup”

Hope that helps!

 

[OOMPA Tailgate]

The question was never presented that way. Their question was presented as which are we closer to. Not which are we better than

Let me put this in odds.

If the Packers played the Lions it would be odds of (this is my opinion in real time but bet I’m close)
-2.0 Lions at Lambeau
-3.0 Lions at Ford

If the Packers played the Seahawks it would be odds of
-5.5 Packers at Lambeau
-4.5 Packers at Seahawks

Neither infers The Packers are better than the Lions or Worse than the Seahawks. It 100% infers the Lions vid Packers is a better matchup.

Hope that helps!

breaking news

David Montgomery (RB Det) is getting tested on his knee - might be out for the rest of the season