Remaining cap after today's moves

GreenBaySlacker

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The back loading is a bit concerning. But to look at it another way... If you dont use the whole cap you are on a disadvantage.... I think everyone felt Thompson didnt use all his cap, and it led to an ultra frugal strategy...what the use of flexibility if you never made a move?

Now Gute spent the money. We have the players instead of unused flexibility.

Now if gute can maneuver anything close to as well as he did last year in the draft. We should be sweet...

Keeping Clark next year is a priority. I personally like overpaying a year early for guys like that. Go long term.... 5 years, or 6 years even. Lock him in.
By the time the contract is half done Clark will be a deal... I'd take that over letting him hit free agency and jacking the price up.
Anyways.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Keeping Clark next year is a priority. I personally like overpaying a year early for guys like that. Go long term.... 5 years, or 6 years even. Lock him in.
By the time the contract is half done Clark will be a deal... I'd take that over letting him hit free agency and jacking the price up.
Anyways.

I think you can sleep easy, by May 3rd the Packers will be picking up Clark's 5th year option, keeping him in Green Bay at least through 2020. Last season that would have cost them $7.154 M.
 

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I think you can sleep easy, by May 3rd the Packers will be picking up Clark's 5th year option, keeping him in Green Bay at least through 2020. Last season that would have cost them $7.154 M.
Yep. 5th year him and give him a 5 year extension the next day. :)
 

Mondio

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it if's williams or Breeland, that one is fairly easy. I think they need to bring a kicker in or 2 at least even in OTA's to compete with Crosby. If they don't have anyone that shows promise, I'm ok keeping him another year, but if they do, i have zero issue with cutting him at this point in his career either. I just don't see Bulaga getting cut. We're not replacing him with anyone for what he saves. The only person that replaces him is a draft pick that performs far above everyone's expectations and surprises the heck out of us. ANd if that happens, Bulaga's contract is already accounted for mostly by that time and too much time has passed to look for quality back ups or other FA's to spend that money on anyway. and IF we had a draft pick perform that well, it's not like we have 6 of them. Bulaga will be kept for what he can offer. He's not a malcontent, he's a hard worker. He's had a lot of injuries and guts thru most of them and seems to have a team mentality all over him. I don't see him going anywhere at this point.
 

elcid

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it if's williams or Breeland, that one is fairly easy. I think they need to bring a kicker in or 2 at least even in OTA's to compete with Crosby. If they don't have anyone that shows promise, I'm ok keeping him another year, but if they do, i have zero issue with cutting him at this point in his career either. I just don't see Bulaga getting cut. We're not replacing him with anyone for what he saves. The only person that replaces him is a draft pick that performs far above everyone's expectations and surprises the heck out of us. ANd if that happens, Bulaga's contract is already accounted for mostly by that time and too much time has passed to look for quality back ups or other FA's to spend that money on anyway. and IF we had a draft pick perform that well, it's not like we have 6 of them. Bulaga will be kept for what he can offer. He's not a malcontent, he's a hard worker. He's had a lot of injuries and guts thru most of them and seems to have a team mentality all over him. I don't see him going anywhere at this point.

Priority of the Pack should def be to resign Breeland. I think we can all agree that Williams is an easy cut if it means bringing Bashaud back. Crosby is probably the 2nd name to go if Gute needs more cap space for one reason or another.

After that, I have to slightly disagree with you. Sure, as of right now it's not as if there are good players on the market for which more cap space is needed. However if there is a surprise cut on some roster which Gute really likes, of all the big contract players who could be justified cutting (Bulaga, Daniels, Graham), I think Bulaga is the first one out the door.

I believe that Turner and his versatility was signed with the idea of starting at either RG, or be a 1 year bridge at RT for a developing rookie when the FO would decide to cut Bulaga. In addition I believe there definitely are some OL prospects in the draft who are plug and play at RT (Williams, Ford, Taylor, Risner, Dillard). While they will probably not be able to play at a top tier level like Bulaga has over the years when healthy, I believe they can immediately be steady right tackles.

Granted, it would increase the urgency to draft OL early (and more). But imo the Packers would have drafted OL before the end of day 2 anyway, and I am projecting that drafting an OL will probably align with BPA anyway at pick #12, #30 or #44. At #12 the Pack will probably have 4 out of the 5 I mentioned available to them, maybe even see one of these prospects at #30 (My best bet would be Risner).

IF they decide to not go OL #12 and miss out on al these guys at #30, I feel like they can still get a very solid RG in Bradbury or Lindstrom, shift Turner to RT and draft more of a project at RT in Howard or Sharping.
 

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From just a quick look it looks like we have a lot of flexibility with ability to cut Graham, Tramon, or Bulaga to make some room. Also, making all the new guys have small cap hits this year made it much easier to eat the perry dead money this year which I feel is a good trade. All of their hits are much bigger next yeR but if they perform it won’t feel as bad as continuing to eat salary for the nothing Perry gave us. Next year I could really see us cutting graham unless something drastic changes in his play and opening up a ton of space. Gute and ball have done a great job of being agressive but giving themselves lots of flexibility! I would love to get Clay, Breeland, and Wilkerson signed yet and then the draft really could wide open to pick blue chip players and not just trying to fill holes. IN GUTE WE TRUST!
 

PackerDNA

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I think they'll look to extend Bak this season. Don't want to have to franchise him or let him get to free agency.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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For all those that wanted to trade for and sign Dee Ford.....


Details on #49ers OLB Dee Ford’s 5-year contract, which can turn into a 1-year, $20.5 million pact: $19.75M fully guaranteed by next week. Remaining $25.25M guarantee is for injury only, with $13.65M “rolling” to full guarantee April 1, 2020. Base value $85M. Max $87.5M.
 

gbgary

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For all those that wanted to trade for and sign Dee Ford.....


Details on #49ers OLB Dee Ford’s 5-year contract, which can turn into a 1-year, $20.5 million pact: $19.75M fully guaranteed by next week. Remaining $25.25M guarantee is for injury only, with $13.65M “rolling” to full guarantee April 1, 2020. Base value $85M. Max $87.5M.
Packers kind of did the same thing with their noob's contracts. can make them one year if needed (the dead money is less than the cap hit).
 
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HardRightEdge

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The back loading is a bit concerning. But to look at it another way... If you dont use the whole cap you are on a disadvantage.... I think everyone felt Thompson didnt use all his cap, and it led to an ultra frugal strategy...what the use of flexibility if you never made a move?

Now Gute spent the money. We have the players instead of unused flexibility.
Thompson typically carried over something in the range of $5 - $9 mil cap when all was said and done. If you carry over $5 mil one year and then carry over $5 mil the next, that means you've spent all of the current year's cap number.

Gutekunst is using more than his cap, borrowing from the future with back loaded contracts.

Thompson's problem wasn't unused flexibility. It was poor drafts in a draft and develop approach.
 
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Thompson's problem wasn't unused flexibility. It was poor drafts in a draft and develop approach.
Yes. Not that this part was directly TT’s fault, but that was mixed with poor utilization on the “develop” part in addition to his “drafting”.
 

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Thompson typically carried over something in the range of $5 - $9 mil cap when all was said and done. If you carry over $5 mil one year and then carry over $5 mil the next, that means you've spent all of the current year's cap number.

Gutekunst is using more than his cap, borrowing from the future with back loaded contracts.

Thompson's problem wasn't unused flexibility. It was poor drafts in a draft and develop approach.
I agree but I guess I'm thinking more of the first half of Thompson's time here. He carried over 30 mil a year it seemed..... Then he started spending more towards the end...

He also finish drafting with a crumbly record the last half..... The first half was much better in my estimation. And the records reflected it.
 
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Projected Draft Pool: $10,263,680

The $13.9 is only the top 51.

If you include everyone, we have $5,531,745

The 2019 draft class with reduce the available cap space by only $5.8 million though.

Yep. 5th year him and give him a 5 year extension the next day. :)

If the Packers pick up the fifth year option on Clark they can't negotiate a long term contract with him until after the 2019 season.

Bulaga definitely won't be cut. Williams might be and Crosby hopefully will be but I doubt it after gute publicly backed him

It's probable the Packers will keep Bulaga for this season but there's a possibility they will move on from him if Turner and a rookie prove to be capable of protecting Rodgers right side.

From just a quick look it looks like we have a lot of flexibility with ability to cut Graham, Tramon, or Bulaga to make some room.

Graham received a $5 million roster bonus on Friday, resulting in the cap savings by releasing him at this point being only $300K. He's guaranteed to make this year's roster.

I agree but I guess I'm thinking more of the first half of Thompson's time here. He carried over 30 mil a year it seemed.....

The Packers never rolled over more than $9.8 million into next season while Thompson was the general manager.
 

GreenBaySlacker

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The Packers never rolled over more than $9.8 million into next season while Thompson was the general manager.
Interesting how my belief was so far off. I could have sworn there was 20s or even 30 mil carry over most those first years. People complained about it I thought?
The recent years I Definately seen the change. He spent more. And didn't let the cap go unused. But he still didnt leverage the future at all...

You know, It seemed the majority of us weren't too in tune to the cap back then.... After 10 or 15 years of being schooled by captain, we all have a much better grasp on it I think. :) I do at least. But not nearly enough to keep up on the actual numbers myself and be reliably accurate... I can follow along at least.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Word is our cap is under 5 mill

That seems to be the debate of the day after Silverstein post yesterday, which he is now retracting and saying its closer to $8M.

Tom Silverstein‏Verified account @TomSilverstein
So, in double-checking cap numbers with people who know, the #Packers were $13M under as of yesterday. Remove about $5M for their draft picks and they're $8M under, not $5M as some have been led to believe.


Whatever it is, they don't seem to have a lot to play with and in order to make many new moves, they might have to cut a player or 2.
 

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That seems to be the debate of the day after Silverstein post yesterday, which he is now retracting and saying its closer to $8M.

Tom Silverstein‏Verified account @TomSilverstein
So, in double-checking cap numbers with people who know, the #Packers were $13M under as of yesterday. Remove about $5M for their draft picks and they're $8M under, not $5M as some have been led to believe.


Whatever it is, they don't seem to have a lot to play with and in order to make many new moves, they might have to cut a player or 2.


let's go with 5+ knowing the can create more if need be. lol

you'd think us owners in the loop.
 
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HardRightEdge

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That seems to be the debate of the day after Silverstein post yesterday, which he is now retracting and saying its closer to $8M.

Tom Silverstein‏Verified account @TomSilverstein
So, in double-checking cap numbers with people who know, the #Packers were $13M under as of yesterday. Remove about $5M for their draft picks and they're $8M under, not $5M as some have been led to believe.


Whatever it is, they don't seem to have a lot to play with and in order to make many new moves, they might have to cut a player or 2.
There's current cap space and then there is usable cap space, two different things, as Silverstein's draft class deduction illustrates. However, those numbers do not look quite right, and Silverstein has not made other necessary deductions noted below. Let's review:

overthecap shows Top 51 cap space as $13.6 mil while spotrac shows $13.8 mil. The NFLPA shows $15.9 mil:

https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report

The NFLPA is not including either Allison's $2.0 mil because he is tendered and not contracted, or Lewis' $2.1 mil because of a lag in posting new contracts. I'd surmise it is Allison who is omitted because he is not technically a Green Bay Packer, so lets go with $13.9 mil as the current cap space.

Spotrac shows the Packers' estimated rookie salary pool as $10.3 mil. However, once those 10 guys are signed they will replace current players in the Top 51. The low picks might not make the Top 51 but close enough to make it a rounding error. Currently, the cap cost of the current bottom 10 in the Top 51 = $5.8 mil using overthecap's figures.

$10.3 rookie pool - $5.8 mil Top 51 being replaced = $4.5 mil cap deduction for the draft.

That brings us to $9.4 mil in usable cap space with additional deduction noted below.

The draft pool may be somewhat lower than sportrac's number. I don't think it was updated since the 2019 cap number was announced, and that cap number came in at the bottom of the projected range. Anyhow:

If you're going to deduct for the draft as a necessary future expense then, to quote Ron Popeil, "But there's more!"

That $9.4 mil cap space number is for the Top 51. By opening day it must be 53. Those additional 2 players will be around $1 mil in cost for a couple of guys at or close to the rookie minimum. The practice squad is going to be around $1.4 mil if we assume a 6% increase in line with the cap.

That brings usable cap space down to $7 mil.

If the Packers are telling people they have $5 mil in usable cap space they are not blowing smoke as Silverstein suggests.

My $7 mil figure does not include anything held in reserve for PUP/IR replacements.
If Gutekunst is penciling in $2 mil for that contingency, that gets you to his $5 mil usable cap space figure.

To illustrate, if a vested veteran goes on IR sometime between now and opening day, not subject to injury settlement, you need a full season replacement with both players then counting against the cap. If you have spent all the way up to the cap limit, and the replacement is a minimum salary rookie, then you'd have to cut somebody to get $500,000 in cap room. You then need to replace the guy you just cut, and that's another $500,000 in needed cap room if that replacement is also minimum salary rookie.

The numbers go up if you go to the street for a veteran.

So, at that point you have to cut a guy that yields a minimum $1 mil in cap savings. There are only 14 guys currently on the roster who fit that description and you would not want to cut them most of them. Spriggs at $1.1 mil might be is a candidate. Maybe Lane Taylor or Lewis at $2 mil.

And that's just 16 games worth of PUP/IR replacement. It's always more than that, sometimes considerably more, by the time the season is said and done.

So, some number of millions needs to be kept in reserve unless you want to find yourself in a position to cut somebody you'd rather not.

It's easy to say (or maybe not), "cut Lane Taylor", but what if the PUP or IR guy you need to replace is an OG? Or "cut Springs", but what if the guy you need to replace is an OT?

Ergo, going without a sum for PUP/IR replacements would be kinda stupid. $2 mil seems like a minimum prudent amount. I usually use $3 mil in these calculations to be conservative.

If anybody has read this far, please raise your hand. Bueller? Bueller? ;)


 
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HardRightEdge

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So its safe to assume that the Packers have more spare change in their couch than many of us will see in a lifetime?
You could say that. I view it as an abstraction, like the value of Bezos' Amazon stock or the $100+ billion in cash sitting on some corporate balance sheets.

Anyway, whatever "spare change" the Packers may have isn't really spare since it carries over to the following year if not spent. God knows Gutekunst is going to need every penny he can scrounge up come 2020 if he doesn't "win now". A "win now" would mean miles of rope for 2020 in the pressure-to-win viewpoint.

It is mind boggling to me that professional commentators cannot reconcile "cap space" with "usable cap space". I like Silverstein; he does a lot of good reporting. But if he had a balloon payment due on his mortgage in 5 months would he be oblivious to it?
 
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