Packers 2021 salary cap plan

[tynimiller]

No, the contract automatically voids after this season resulting in dead money of $1.88 million counting against the cap in 2022.

There won't be any cap hit because of it in 2023, '24 or '25.

With teams being allowed to roll over remaining cap space it doesn't make a difference.

Got ya thanks

 

[sschind]

No, the contract automatically voids after this season resulting in dead money of $1.88 million counting against the cap in 2022.

There won't be any cap hit because of it in 2023, '24 or '25.

With teams being allowed to roll over remaining cap space it doesn't make a difference.

Plus there is no reason why they can't extend him at some point this season if he plays like someone they want to keep around and that will take care of the cap hit next season.

I'm not going to get into the "it doesn't matter" and the "roll over" discussion with you again other than to say you are right IF they don't use the money they saved this year on someone else. If they don't spend it on someone else it will be there to roll over and they can use it toward his dead cap money next year BUT if they spend it on someone else it won't be there to roll over and they will have to come up with it from somewhere next season.

What it does is gives the Packers an extra year for half the price to see if they want to give him a longer term deal. If he is the real deal and they give him an extension it will likely include, in some way, the 1.88 million they deferred. My gut says Tonyan will sign an extension before the end of this league year.

 

[OldSchool101]

And assuming Love is the guy then after those few years of pain...you have to pay him a top 5 contract and the cycle starts over again

This is why it’s imperative a given team benefits from a Starting QB’s Rookie salary. Just 2 seasons at 3.3mil per year lowers the average payout for a given player dramatically.
Example1: 5 year contract @$175mil + 3 year extension@$40mil/yr =$295mil or $36.9 annual

Example2: 3 Rookie years@$3.3mil + 5years new contract@35mil =184.9mil =$23.11 annual

that’s 8 seasons (half a QB career) saving nearly $14mil per season. That’s like having Billy Turner +Adrian Amos for free every season.

The Packers have actually done that with early draft picks and a lot of money spent on that side of the ball but unfortunately haven't been able to feature a top defense in a long time.

Yeah that’s true. Well arguably we could count 2019 where we at least cracked top 10 at #9 scoring. . Factor in the fact that we’ve selected a top #10 Overall 1 Time in 15 seasons. We had to forgo a day 1 selection in 2017 and package picks just to get into position to pick at #18 (J’aire).

We’ve had a top #15 draft selection 2 time in Rodgers entire starting career (barely) #12 Rashan Gary snd #9 BJ Raji (then he retired mid career) Makes a big difference IMO

We’ve really only missed a few times with D Randall (2015 #30 overall) D Jones (2013 #26 overall) but even those are towards the end of the day picks.

We have invested heavily just recently. Amos, Smith and Smith. So I’ll give you that. Listen I have no problem with Rodgers getting his head straight. I’d love to see him win 1 more with a G helmet. But he needs to step up and be a man. He’s acting like he’s 20 years old.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not going to get into the "it doesn't matter" and the "roll over" discussion with you again other than to say you are right IF they don't use the money they saved this year on someone else. If they don't spend it on someone else it will be there to roll over and they can use it toward his dead cap money next year BUT if they spend it on someone else it won't be there to roll over and they will have to come up with it from somewhere next season.

True, but the other player signed would be responsible for the Packers having less cap space, not Tonyan.

What it does is gives the Packers an extra year for half the price to see if they want to give him a longer term deal. If he is the real deal and they give him an extension it will likely include, in some way, the 1.88 million they deferred.

Actually the Packers will be paying Tonyan $3.384 million this year. They just added void years to spread out the cap hit. Therefore I don't believe it would have any affect on an extension.

We had to forgo a day 1 selection in 2017 and package picks just to get into position to pick at #18 (J’aire).

Thompson trading out of the first round in the 2017 draft had nothing to do with picking Alexander in '18.

In addition Gutekunst traded out of the 14th spot in 2018 and back up to the 18th to select Jaire, actually picking up another first rounder in '19 in the process.

We’ve really only missed a few times with D Randall (2015 #30 overall) D Jones (2013 #26 overall) but even those are towards the end of the day picks.

From 2011 to '17 Clark was the only impact player selected with the team's first pick. You need to do better than that even when picking late in the round.

Listen I have no problem with Rodgers getting his head straight. I’d love to see him win 1 more with a G helmet. But he needs to step up and be a man. He’s acting like he’s 20 years old.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting Rodgers' way of acting either. I just believe it's in the best interest for the Packers to work it out.

 

[thequick12]

This is why it’s imperative a given team benefits from a Starting QB’s Rookie salary.

That's good in theory but not every fhof qb is ready to play right away. Had the Packers went with Rodgers right out of the gate he likely never develops into fhof Rodgers. And the team doesn't benefit from his rookie deal being cheap because he's not ready to play

Same goes for Jordan Love...there's not that many situations where a team can truly benefit from the rookie QB deal like you're saying... Russell Wilson being the only one that comes to mind. The Jaguars have a chance with Trevor Lawrence, Bengals with Burrow, Chargers with Herbert. But often times those teams are so bad which is how they got in position to draft those guys that it takes their entire rookie deal before the rest of the team catches up to the QB.

I guess the rookie deal thing worked with Goff in LA too but in the end he turned out to be a bust...

 

[sschind]

Actually the Packers will be paying Tonyan $3.384 million this year. They just added void years to spread out the cap hit. Therefore I don't believe it would have any affect on an extension.

You may be right. I was thinking that if they do extend him before the end of this current league year the current contract with the now void years will be replaced so it will not technically expire so the void years will not accelerate. Wording in the new contract may replace the void years changing how it is accounted for but maybe not. Either way, at 1.8 million its not that big of a deal IMO.

 

[OldSchool101]

From 2011 to '17 Clark was the only impact player selected with the team's first pick. You need to do better than that even when picking late in the round.

yeah we drafted below average in that segment. However we cannot punish the current group and assume they will get identical results. We have to judge a teams worth by its direct results.

While Gute had been GM we’ve drafted J’aire, Savage, Gary etc.. and brought in Amos, the Smiths etc.. he’s done more in the last 4 off seasons than all those off seasons combined. We have to give Gute and MLF the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Thus far they’ve done well in Roster building and Success ratio in relation to final results.
This isn’t the time to waffle. If anything this is the time to open up the throttle some.

 

[OldSchool101]

That's good in theory but not every fhof qb is ready to play right away. Had the Packers went with Rodgers right out of the gate he likely never develops into fhof Rodgers. And the team doesn't benefit from his rookie deal being cheap because he's not ready to play

Same goes for Jordan Love...there's not that many situations where a team can truly benefit from the rookie QB deal like you're saying... Russell Wilson being the only one that comes to mind. The Jaguars have a chance with Trevor Lawrence, Bengals with Burrow, Chargers with Herbert.
I guess the rookie deal thing worked with Goff in LA too but in the end he turned out to be a bust..

Exactly! That’s my entire point! Can you imagine getting the cap benefit of a rookie contract + multiple extra 1st and 2round selections added + possibly a 2021 Veteran difference maker?
We’d could package picks and get the best defender in the 2022 draft then still have 2-2nd rounders and all of our draft picks. Then hit it again in the same in 2023.
Those teams are in a completely different position from a top to bottom roster than us, not to mention I like our HC and staff better. So to even use teams picking inside the top 5-10 overall just is not a good comparison in a roster building argument.
If you put Love on the Jets you’re doomed and I’d fully agree with you that Love would suck in those environments not a good fit at all.
The GBP are not the Jets and certainly not Jacksonville.
I think we just have to disagree our arguments are too far away.

 

[thequick12]

Exactly! That’s my entire point! Can you imagine getting the cap benefit of a rookie contract + multiple extra 1st and 2round selections added + possibly a 2021 Veteran difference maker?
We’d could package picks and get the best defender in the 2022 draft then still have 2-2nd rounders and all of our draft picks. Then hit it again in the same in 2023.
Those teams are in a completely different position from a top to bottom roster than us, not to mention I like our HC and staff better. So to even use teams picking inside the top 5-10 overall just is not a good comparison in a roster building argument.
If you put Love on the Jets you’re doomed and I’d fully agree with you that Love would suck in those environments not a good fit at all.
The GBP are not the Jets and certainly not Jacksonville.
I think we just have to disagree our arguments are too far away.

Rodgers isn't getting traded prior to this off season...those picks you're talking about get diminished in value to end of the round because Rodgers is very likely to turn whatever team he goes to into a SB contender.

Im not against trading Rodgers, never have been...now is just not the time to maximize his value

Also I don't think Jordan Love would suck...i was a fan of his coming out as I've said all along I would of had a tough time passing him up if he fell to 30 and I couldn't trade up for a guy I really wanted

I just don't think he's ready yet. And if you really want him to have a chance you've gotta give him 3 years to develop...

Trading Rodgers for me has always been the thing to do with 1 year remaining on his deal so prior to the 2023 draft. And that is only if Love is good enough that you'd take him over Rodgers at that point

 

[OldSchool101]

Rodgers isn't getting traded prior to this off season...those picks you're talking about get diminished in value to end of the round because Rodgers is very likely to turn whatever team he goes to into a SB contender.

Im not against trading Rodgers, never have been...now is just not the time to maximize his value

Also I don't think Jordan Love would suck...i was a fan of his coming out as I've said all along I would of had a tough time passing him up if he fell to 30 and I couldn't trade up for a guy I really wanted

I just don't think he's ready yet. And if you really want him to have a chance you've gotta give him 3 years to develop...

Trading Rodgers for me has always been the thing to do with 1 year remaining on his deal so prior to the 2023 draft. And that is only if Love is good enough that you'd take him over Rodgers at that point

Makes some sense. But the issue we have is Rodgers wants a contract now. He’s not interested in playing on a 1 year deal and being kicked to the curb. So some of that scenario is highly unlikely, such has just casually hanging around to do this all over again next season. He’s not taking a 1 year extension, I’m 200% sure we’ve already offered him a net 2 year restructure/extension at around $80-85mil in some format (I’m talking a real talk 2 guaranteed at that rate) Trust me here He wants 4 years guaranteed or close to it. It’s quite possibly we’ve hinted at 3 years, but slightly less $ annually.
This is the reason (contract term) we’re in a stalemate to begin with.

ps. Be prepared to take a step backwards if we sign him past 2 years guaranteed. We can’t sustain that cap expenditure. We’ll have send at minimum 2 premier players packing. This will make Linsley and Wagner departing look like chump moves. Trust me here it’s about to get ugly from a cap perspective. This ain’t the US Treasury where we can print fake money.

 

[thequick12]

Makes some sense. But the issue we have is Rodgers wants a contract now. He’s not interested in playing on a 1 year deal and being kicked to the curb. So some of that scenario is highly unlikely, such has just casually hanging around to do this all over again next season. He’s not taking a 1 year extension, I’m 200% sure we’ve already offered him a net 2 year restructure/extension at around $80-85mil in some format (I’m talking a real talk 2 guaranteed at that rate) Trust me here He wants 4 years guaranteed or close to it. It’s quite possibly we’ve hinted at 3 years, but slightly less $ annually.
This is the reason (contract term) we’re in a stalemate to begin with.

ps. Be prepared to take a step backwards if we sign him past 2 years guaranteed. We can’t sustain that cap expenditure. We’ll have send at minimum 2 premier players packing. This will make Linsley and Wagner departing look like chump moves. Trust me here it’s about to get ugly from a cap perspective. This ain’t the US Treasury where we can print fake money.

I agree about the US Treasury ...but I don't see cap problems beyond 2022. Because the new tv/media deals kick in and the cap could jump from the 208 it's gonna be for 2022 to 250 in 2023

Can still trade Rodgers even if you give him a new contract because any team trading for him already understands and wants to sign him for a 5 year run....

I'd agree that Rodgers probably wants his contract fully guranteed and I don't blame him for that... ironically wasn't Loves contract fully guranteed

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree about the US Treasury ...but I don't see cap problems beyond 2022. Because the new tv/media deals kick in and the cap could jump from the 208 it's gonna be for 2022 to 250 in 2023

Can still trade Rodgers even if you give him a new contract because any team trading for him already understands and wants to sign him for a 5 year run....

I'd agree that Rodgers probably wants his contract fully guranteed and I don't blame him for that... ironically wasn't Loves contract fully guranteed

I gave you a like for defending our QB, regardless of my current position. I respect you want to hold on to something good. I just wish things had went down differently.
We’re all Packer fans and we just want to balance winning with upholding ethics. I don’t like the way this is playing out on the latter side. I also know Gute got this started, but Rodgers can show up and end this debacle. It’s just possible that olive branch in itself gets our FO attention.
Lesson: Just do the next right thing regardless of what others are doing around you. It’s amazing how God rewards us when we just do what’s right in the face of uncertainty. In my life it came in the most unexpected ways.

 

[OldSchool101]

Rodgers isn't getting traded prior to this off season...those picks you're talking about get diminished in value to end of the round because Rodgers is very likely to turn whatever team he goes to into a SB contender.

Didn’t say he had to be traded tonight. But if he’s a no show we recoup like what? $30-$35 million?? that’s just a start.
Plus all this talk about SB contender is far-fetched. Why is it we can even make a SB in 11 seasons! He’s played at MVP level for how many seasons? but suddenly everyone else is an immediate Lock at Superbowl with Rodgers?
In the very first year in their system?

there’s a better chance that Love wins a playoff game than Rodgers wins a SB. I’ll take those odds any day

 

[JK64]

there’s a better chance that Love wins a playoff game than Rodgers wins a SB. I’ll take those odds any day

Love would have to get to the playoffs first. Do you want to take those odds?

 

[thequick12]

Didn’t say he had to be traded tonight. But if he’s a no show we recoup like what? $30-$35 million?? that’s just a start.
Plus all this talk about SB contender is far-fetched. Why is it we can even make a SB in 11 seasons! He’s played at MVP level for how many seasons? but suddenly everyone else is an immediate Lock at Superbowl with Rodgers?
In the very first year in their system?

there’s a better chance that Love wins a playoff game than Rodgers wins a SB. I’ll take those odds any day

So hes played at an mvp level but youre blaming him for not getting to another SB?

Who were his pass catchers when he won the SB?

Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, James Jones, Jordy Nelson were the top 4 wrs I know that...

The Packers played a playoff gane recently with one guy who is on that level... Davantae Adams

 

[OldSchool101]

So hes played at an mvp level but youre blaming him for not getting to another SB?

Who were his pass catchers when he won the SB?

Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, James Jones, Jordy Nelson were the top 4 wrs I know that...

The Packers played a playoff gane recently with one guy who is on that level... Davantae Adams

YES. 100% he’s partly to blame

Those are all excuses. Unfortunately we make excuses to cover taking responsibility for our shortcomings. We are all guilty of putting the blame on ST, yet it takes all 3 phases to lose. The fact is this. Rodgers did not play MVP level when it matters most. Postseason. We can make excuses for him, but Aaron is paid handsomely and it isn’t to play “average” when it’s all in the line.

Had Rodgers taken the ball down the field on the last drive we would’ve put that game away. He is paid well to finish games like this and this is another season lost because we stalled on 8 separate drives. I’ll give him a pass on the missed FG. These games deserve better than 13 points of Offensive production even if we made that FG. Aaron Rodgers would’ve gotten all the accolades had we won, surely we can be critical of a pedestrian performance when we lose a Divisional at Lambeau to a very beatable opponent

PS. Randall Cobb is a very capable receiver. Especially in a game where 5-10 yard chunks, moving the chains and controlling the clock would = a Win

 

[pacmaniac]

YES. 100% he’s partly to blame

Those are all excuses. Unfortunately we make excuses to cover taking responsibility for our shortcomings. We are all guilty of putting the blame on ST, yet it takes all 3 phases to lose. The fact is this. Rodgers did not play MVP level when it matters most. Postseason. We can make excuses for him, but Aaron is paid handsomely and it isn’t to play “average” when it’s all in the line.

Had Rodgers taken the ball down the field on the last drive we would’ve put that game away. He is paid well to finish games like this and this is another season lost because we stalled on 8 separate drives. I’ll give him a pass on the missed FG. These games deserve better than 13 points of Offensive production even if we made that FG. Aaron Rodgers would’ve gotten all the accolades had we won, surely we can be critical of a pedestrian performance when we lose a Divisional at Lambeau to a very beatable opponent

PS. Randall Cobb is a very capable receiver. Especially in a game where 5-10 yard chunks, moving the chains and controlling the clock would = a Win

No more excuses. Rodgers got the home playoff game last season. He lost. People made excuses saying it wasn't cold enough. He got the home playoff game again this season, but it was cold this time. That's what Rodgers wanted. He lost again. People made excuses saying it was too cold.

 

[thequick12]

YES. 100% he’s partly to blame

Those are all excuses. Unfortunately we make excuses to cover taking responsibility for our shortcomings. We are all guilty of putting the blame on ST, yet it takes all 3 phases to lose. The fact is this. Rodgers did not play MVP level when it matters most. Postseason. We can make excuses for him, but Aaron is paid handsomely and it isn’t to play “average” when it’s all in the line.

Had Rodgers taken the ball down the field on the last drive we would’ve put that game away. He is paid well to finish games like this and this is another season lost because we stalled on 8 separate drives. I’ll give him a pass on the missed FG. These games deserve better than 13 points of Offensive production even if we made that FG. Aaron Rodgers would’ve gotten all the accolades had we won, surely we can be critical of a pedestrian performance when we lose a Divisional at Lambeau to a very beatable opponent

PS. Randall Cobb is a very capable receiver. Especially in a game where 5-10 yard chunks, moving the chains and controlling the clock would = a Win

I agree that Rodgers needs to play better in the playoffs, i have said that plenty and im not making excuses for him im simply stating the facts...

You need 2 real wrs, 3 really but definitely 2 and a great qb to win in the playoffs...having a super defense is awesome too but 2 or 3 real wrs and a great qb

The fact that the 49ers only feared Adams made their defense look really good...that same defense didnt look as good when they feared Kupp and Beckham with an inferior qb to Rodgers in Stafford

Players try harder in the playoffs so the players that were already trying their hardest just to have a role in the league arent as good in the playoffs...you cant just depend on the qb to make them better they have to be better

I agree cobb is good but how many snaps did he get? I saw the one target on the drive you mentioned and of course ive already said it was an inexcusable mistake for Rodgers to miss Lazard on 3rd down on that drive. He should have and ussually does know lazard will be open pre snap on that play with the defense aligned the way it was which is what makes him a fhof player, he doesnt miss much but i think he was like a poker player on tilt on that play

Also of note look who the benegals wrs are, jamarr chase, tee higgens and tyler boyd. The first 2 over 1k and boyd over 800...all 3 are better than the packers 2nd best wrs

It is a shame mvs was injured all season because i had a feel he might have taken a leap last year and been that 2nd real wr

 

[Poppa San]

I'm locking this necro-thread.