Rebuild a new LaFleur offense or get what Pettine needs on defense?

[PackAttack12]

yup. in reality cobb was our #3. the same place he's been for the last several years. we had no #2. we still don't. i laughed when some here thought graham could/would be the 2. he was barely an adequate TE. this team needs a 2 in the worst way. hell...it really needs a 3 now too if we're being honest. can someone take that slot spot and really run with it? it will be interesting to see.

This is quite accurate.

A healthy Cobb as the #3 is awesome. I view Allison as a #4.

We need a #2, or even someone to rival Davante for #1. Hopefully MVS or EQ can make huge leaps in their sophomore campaigns to compete for those spots, but I'm not comfortable counting on that happening.

It'd be foolish to let Allison go given how cheap he is. But I'm with brandon in the sense that I'm tired of shopping on the clearance rack for offensive talent.

 

[brandon2348]

That we don't buy over priced junk from child slave labor countries?

anyway, I also notice a trend. When every argument you've had is debunked, you resort to this.

-Were not good enough on the offensive side of the ball to win a championship.

-The offense has suffered from years of spending all premium picks on trying to fix the defense which has failed miserably. Now were mediocre on both sides of the ball.

-The depth on offense is horrid and isn't built to win a 16 games schedule.

-Ted Thompson ruined this franchise and the Packers haven't made the playoffs for two straight years with Rodgers not being able to make up for deficiencies all over the roster.

-The Packers are on the verge of being a 4-12 team if they continue this madness in regards to building the roster and continuing too neglect the offense.

I could go on and on but those are the major factual talking points that you are ignoring just like you ignored when Thompson destroyed this franchise.

 

[Mondio]

This is quite accurate.

A healthy Cobb as the #3 is awesome. I view Allison as a #4.

We need a #2, or even someone to rival Davante for #1. Hopefully MVS or EQ can make huge leaps in their sophomore campaigns to compete for those spots, but I'm not comfortable counting on that happening.

It'd be foolish to let Allison go given how cheap he is. But I'm with brandon in the sense that I'm tired of shopping on the clearance rack for offensive talent.

Don't think i'm happy with how the offense is. I can see what we need. But when healthy, Cobb is far better than a #3 option. He's been injured a lot the past couple years and he wasn't a bargain bin item. He produced, he was invested in, and then hurt too often. I know have some understanding of cap and implications, so you know that he wasn't someone you could just cut and run from. and considering every time he comes back healthy he's productive again and the offense looks differently, you know it wouldn't have been the smart thing to do either.

Yes we need to invest some more in our offense, and I know you're smart enough, and big picture enough to know that cap space wasn't really available for overpriced FA WR's 2-3 years ago, and the defense has had too many holes to use top level draft picks on a position that I think is probably one of the easier to fill in the NFL. that should be especially true when you have a QB like Rodgers. We've had like 1 season where we haven't had really good WR's on this roster and that was last year. and of course last year it would have been wise to use the top 2 picks on WR's right?

 

[Mondio]

-Were not good enough on the offensive side of the ball to win a championship.

-The offense has suffered from years of spending all premium picks on trying to fix the defense which has failed miserably. Now were mediocre on both sides of the ball.

-The depth on offense is horrid and isn't built to win a 16 games schedule.

-Ted Thompson ruined this franchise and the Packers haven't made the playoffs for two straight years with Rodgers not being able to make up for deficiencies all over the roster.

-The Packers are on the verge of being a 4-12 team if they continue this madness in regards to building the roster and continuing too neglect the offense.

I could go on and on but those are the major factual talking points that you are ignoring just like you ignored when Thompson destroyed this franchise.

Oh, i thought we were talking about Gmo?

I'd agree our offense needs work. I'd agree we haven't been able to spend many picks on it because of the defense. I disagree that you just ignore needs because you want a WR, which I think is one of the easier positions to fill in the NFL, right behind RB. Ted had good and Ted had some bad and some was just plain old cycles of investments, cap and injuries that affects every team. But you can rant about him daily, it's ok. I ignore nothing. I fully realize where this team is. But ignoring might become a real option. the schtick is old

 

[brandon2348]

We need a #2, or even someone to rival Davante for #1. Hopefully MVS or EQ can make huge leaps in their sophomore campaigns to compete for those spots, but I'm not comfortable counting on that happening.
.

That's just it. That would be putting it all on Rodgers and hoping a couple day 3 picks develop into stars which is far fetched. If this is the scenario they go I expect failure and people will blame Rodgers and welcome to 4-12.

I want exactly what you described which is a guy that can rival Adam's. Thats exactly the mentality we need and the chances of getting it on day 3 of the draft is like almost trying to hit on a lottery ticket.

 

[brandon2348]

Oh, i thought we were talking about Gmo?

I'd agree our offense needs work. I'd agree we haven't been able to spend many picks on it because of the defense. I disagree that you just ignore needs because you want a WR, which I think is one of the easier positions to fill in the NFL, right behind RB. Ted had good and Ted had some bad and some was just plain old cycles of investments, cap and injuries that affects every team. But you can rant about him daily, it's ok. I ignore nothing. I fully realize where this team is. But ignoring might become a real option. the schtick is old

Were talking in circles and G-Mo has everything to do with the talking points I played out because he is part of the equation of not being talented enough on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[gopkrs]

I believe that the starting point for our offense has got to be the O line. And good ones. Get two of them in the first 3 rounds. Bulaga making it through a year does not seem realistic and Rodgers needs to be protected better anyway. Further, the best way to protect him is to have an O line that can runblock. I don't want to be a running team. Just want to have push, holes to run through and linemen that can pull. Keep the defense off balance. Is that asking too much? I think that our new O line coach will be better than Campen ever was. Partly because Campen was over-rated.

 

[brandon2348]

I believe that the starting point for our offense has got to be the O line. And good ones. Get two of them in the first 3 rounds. Bulaga making it through a year does not seem realistic and Rodgers needs to be protected better anyway. Further, the best way to protect him is to have an O line that can runblock. I don't want to be a running team. Just want to have push, holes to run through and linemen that can pull. Keep the defense off balance. Is that asking too much? I think that our new O line coach will be better than Campen ever was. Partly because Campen was over-rated.

I don't believe Bulaga will be on roster next year so yes RG and RT.

 

[Pkrjones]

That would be putting it all on Rodgers and hoping a couple day 3 picks develop into stars which is far fetched. If this is the scenario they go I expect failure and people will blame Rodgers and welcome to 4-12.

Instead of ranting about TT killing the talent on the team, that day 3 picks (MVS, EQ, Moore) can't be expected to contribute and that #12 pick should be used on an ILB or WR maybe a more constructive argument would be to start with everyone's opinion of the biggest draft needs?

I'm already on record that I think the draft needs priorities should be (or slight variation of): OLB, OT, TE, S, OG, OLB, slot WR, ILB, BPA for last 2 picks. Only have 4 shots at Day 1 & 2 picks, the rest are day 3 "just guys".

We're one injury away at LT, QB, CB, ILB, TE, & OG to be very screwed in '19. Need capable backups/young guys everywhere as S, OG, & ILB depth proved grossly inadequate in '18. Gute will fill some spots in free agency (what a refreshing change THAT is!) but this draft is critical.

 

[Mondio]

Instead of ranting about TT killing the talent on the team, that day 3 picks (MVS, EQ, Moore) can't be expected to contribute and that #12 pick should be used on an ILB or WR maybe a more constructive argument would be to start with everyone's opinion of the biggest draft needs?

I'm already on record that I think the draft needs priorities should be (or slight variation of): OLB, OT, TE, S, OG, OLB, slot WR, ILB, BPA for last 2 picks. Only have 4 shots at Day 1 & 2 picks, the rest are day 3 "just guys".

We're one injury away at LT, QB, CB, ILB, TE, & OG to be very screwed in '19. Need capable backups/young guys everywhere as S, OG, & ILB depth proved grossly inadequate in '18. Gute will fill some spots in free agency (what a refreshing change THAT is!) but this draft is critical.

Ideally, OLB/DL, OL, are my first choices. Then I'd put ILB/Safety and TE and then RB/WR. and depending on Breeland and King's health, DB could be bumped up somewhere in that ILB/Safety/TE catagory.

 

[brandon2348]

Instead of ranting about TT killing the talent on the team, that day 3 picks (MVS, EQ, Moore) can't be expected to contribute and that #12 pick should be used on an ILB or WR maybe a more constructive argument would be to start with everyone's opinion of the biggest draft needs?

I'm already on record that I think the draft needs priorities should be (or slight variation of): OLB, OT, TE, S, OG, OLB, slot WR, ILB, BPA for last 2 picks. Only have 4 shots at Day 1 & 2 picks, the rest are day 3 "just guys".

We're one injury away at LT, QB, CB, ILB, TE, & OG to be very screwed in '19. Need capable backups/young guys everywhere as S, OG, & ILB depth proved grossly inadequate in '18. Gute will fill some spots in free agency (what a refreshing change THAT is!) but this draft is critical.

Overall I agree that the margin for error is quite small for this upcoming draft if the Packers plan to get back into contention. Many have D.White as a top 5 player in the draft and while I won't cry(because he is a can't miss stud) if the packers take him at 12 I would rather trade back and get more picks to better fit holes you mentioned. The move that would make my cry is reaching for a TE at 12(Hockenson) or Edge(Polite) which I am seeing mentioned on various threads.

Also, I don't believe we have to go receiver at 12. I'm thinking 30 or second round.

 

[OldSchool101]

I believe that the starting point for our offense has got to be the O line. And good ones. Get two of them in the first 3 rounds. Bulaga making it through a year does not seem realistic and Rodgers needs to be protected better anyway. Further, the best way to protect him is to have an O line that can runblock. I don't want to be a running team. Just want to have push, holes to run through and linemen that can pull. Keep the defense off balance. Is that asking too much? I think that our new O line coach will be better than Campen ever was. Partly because Campen was over-rated.

I have a varying opinion there at OL. I think the Center and the OG positions can be addressed through the 4th round in many years, just depending on the depth and what teams selections are in front of us.

O Tackle is a little more precarious. I’m not comfortable past the top 6-7 rated Tackles in a given year to protect my 33M investment. Whenever we’re going to go Tackle I’d prefer a top 5 guy at the position. I’m fine with a depth player at round 6 etc..

I do agree with you that I’d like to see at least 1-2 OL addressed with some urgency.

 

[gbgary]

-Were not good enough on the offensive side of the ball to win a championship.

-The offense has suffered from years of spending all premium picks on trying to fix the defense which has failed miserably. Now were mediocre on both sides of the ball.

-The depth on offense is horrid and isn't built to win a 16 games schedule.

-Ted Thompson ruined this franchise and the Packers haven't made the playoffs for two straight years with Rodgers not being able to make up for deficiencies all over the roster.

-The Packers are on the verge of being a 4-12 team if they continue this madness in regards to building the roster and continuing too neglect the offense.

I could go on and on but those are the major factual talking points that you are ignoring just like you ignored when Thompson destroyed this franchise.

*yup.
*the d had to be fixed but the o side could have been addressed in free agency over those years but the money just sat there unused.
*depth is an issue everywhere on this team except maybe d-line and backup-backup WR lol. at this point everyone other than adams is a 4/5. if there's a quality slot guy (a 3) in there we'll be lucky.
*thompson's last 3 years were horrid.
*there's really only this off-season to make a significant dent. the Packers and rodgers were incredibly shortsighted in the extension deal. after this off-season it's back to watching nickels and dimes.

 

[brandon2348]

*there's really only this off-season to make a significant dent. the Packers and rodgers were incredibly shortsighted in the extension deal. after this off-season it's back to watching nickels and dimes.

Thats what I've been trying to say. People dont seem to understand the urgency were under. It's all coming to a head.

 

[OldSchool101]

Thats what I've been trying to say. People dont seem to understand the urgency were under. It's all coming to a head.

This is just a guess. I don’t think Rodgers retires until the 2025 season minimum unless there is extenuating circumstances. I would rather not wait to see if he pulls a BJ Raji.
The time to start winning is now. My ultimate wish is to have GB vs NE in the next 2 years. This is entirely possible if we attack this offseason like there’s no tomorrow. I would rather go down swinging than wait for the perfect opportunity to punch.
I’d like to wrap up 3 positions with stellar FA additions so we can attack this draft aggressively.

Don’t be surprised if GB had the plan all along to trade into the top 3-7 overall this year. Id love to jump in front of Detroit if the right top end Defender slips. Then I would feel entirely comfortable with nailing a few Offensive picks next and even trading around to get an extra day 2 guy. Imagine having a Defender that can reap havoc and is disruptive day 1. Someone that Big Mike and Kenny look up to

 

[brandon2348]

This is just a guess. I don’t think Rodgers retires until the 2025 season minimum unless there is extenuating circumstances. I would rather not wait to see if he pulls a BJ Raji.
The time to start winning is now. My ultimate wish is to have GB vs NE in the next 2 years. This is entirely possible if we attack this offseason like there’s no tomorrow. I would rather go down swinging than wait for the perfect opportunity to punch.
I’d like to wrap up 3 positions with stellar FA additions so we can attack this draft aggressively.

Don’t be surprised if GB had the plan all along to trade into the top 3-7 overall this year. Id love to jump in front of Detroit if the right top end Defender slips. Then I would feel entirely comfortable with nailing a few Offensive picks next and even trading around to get an extra day 2 guy. Imagine having a Defender that can reap havoc and is disruptive day 1. Someone that Big Mike and Kenny look up to

I'm totally down for all of that. Let's just hope the Packere are. We definitely need to go into attack mode from here on out. You almost have to treat it like its Rodgers last season every season and take nothing for granite.

If the Packers don't get Rodgers what he needs and keep ignoring the offense I could see him becoming even more disgruntled and we definitely do not want to get to that point.

 

[Packer96]

We're down to grading players based on single plays? I saw enough of our young receivers last year to not consider them garbage. I remember seeing EQ throw some superb down field blocks and saw enough from MVS to be comfortable with him for another year. Cobb is used up and our pass rushers are used up. With #12, pass rusher, with #30, I want Hock, which I post constantly, he is like adding a small tackle on run plays and a security blanket in the middle on pass plays. Next 2 picks OLine, maulers, someone we can run behind for a 3rd and 2. With the rest of our picks, BPA. I want to run an offense like the Pats. TE, or two TE's, FB and slot. Forget the 3 or 4 receiver sets. Slow down their pass rushers by beating the **** out of them with the TE's and Oline, and this protects our 35 year old QB at the same time. Quit hating the Pats and copy them. Scheme your way open, scheme your way to a pass rush. Don't rely on one super star to carry the team, which is what we've done and now we have holes every where. In addition to coaching changes I hope we've changed scouts, changed talent evaluators. Find us the Edelmans. We didn't "pick" Arod, he fell to us. And I don't want to package picks to move up, I think we have 6 out of the first 112-114 picks. If we can't draft enough players with that high of picks to dramatically change our team then we have serious problems with the people at the top and they need to join MM. Finally get our QB to understand sometimes a first down is all we need, every pass doesn't need to be a 40 yard play.

 

[OldSchool101]

I’m with you. Let’s stop trying to take the 30 yard shot when it’s 3rd and a short 2 yards. I must’ve seen that play 10 times in the last 2 yrs

 

[brandon2348]

We're down to grading players based on single plays? I saw enough of our young receivers last year to not consider them garbage. I remember seeing EQ throw some superb down field blocks and saw enough from MVS to be comfortable with him for another year. Cobb is used up and our pass rushers are used up. With #12, pass rusher, with #30, I want Hock, which I post constantly, he is like adding a small tackle on run plays and a security blanket in the middle on pass plays. Next 2 picks OLine, maulers, someone we can run behind for a 3rd and 2. With the rest of our picks, BPA. I want to run an offense like the Pats. TE, or two TE's, FB and slot. Forget the 3 or 4 receiver sets. Slow down their pass rushers by beating the **** out of them with the TE's and Oline, and this protects our 35 year old QB at the same time. Quit hating the Pats and copy them. Scheme your way open, scheme your way to a pass rush. Don't rely on one super star to carry the team, which is what we've done and now we have holes every where. In addition to coaching changes I hope we've changed scouts, changed talent evaluators. Find us the Edelmans. We didn't "pick" Arod, he fell to us. And I don't want to package picks to move up, I think we have 6 out of the first 112-114 picks. If we can't draft enough players with that high of picks to dramatically change our team then we have serious problems with the people at the top and they need to join MM. Finally get our QB to understand sometimes a first down is all we need, every pass doesn't need to be a 40 yard play.

Fair points but unless the Packers sign some free agent receiver who can help us immediately in the slot Hockenson is never going to happen here. They simply can't wait another year to draft Cobb's replacement and I don't see them going TE at 30 and receiver in second due to needing to rebuild the right side of the OL and Edge,Safety on defense. Im sorry but a game changing Slot is more important to our success now then a TE that will be 2nd string mostly all year and used on some double TE sets. It's a luxury pick with the current state of roster. TE might actually be behind RB as an offensive need.

Now I can appreciate you wanting "your guy" as I know the feeling all too well. Your gonna need the Packers to address safety and possibly edge in free agency and then root for the Packers to sign Cole Beasley(who I don't want the packers to sign btw). If all that goes down I would give a 50/50 shot of Packers drafting Hockenson.

That kind of gives a path to Hockenson in Green Bay.

 

[mradtke66]

I don't understand those who think G-Mo is a no.4 receiver. He's easily a number 3, probably fringe no. 2.

He played 5 games last year, hurt mid year, and ended up on IR. In those 5 games, 20 catches, 303 yards, 2 TDs. 15.2 yards per catch.

60.6 yards/game, 5 catches/game.

That 970 yards, 80 catches, and 6 TDs over a 16 game season.

You're not going to confuse him for Adams, but those would be great number for a number 2 receiver in any scheme.

 

[Pkrjones]

I don't understand those who think G-Mo is a no.4 receiver. He's easily a number 3, probably fringe no. 2.

I understood the #4 reference to mean Allison was the #4 option on most plays behind: Adams, Cobb, & Graham.

With Cobb's decline in availability and health, Graham's lack of separation and speed and Allison on IR the offensive options were down to Adams, an underwhelming Graham and then rookies. I happen to agree that MVS, EQ, Kumerow and Tonyan will surprise many with the "jump" they make in year 2 on the Packers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It wasn't the most talented team we've ever had that's for sure. But if you told most people that you had to run an offense with Adams, Cobb, Graham, Gmo Jones and Williams with Rodgers as QB, i'm guessing most people would say they had more than just chicken **** at the skill positions.

He's a player that needed to be developed, and he had a nice start to his 3rd year in the league. Running good routes, being where he should be be and catching the ball. There's no doubt in my that Allison is an absolutely qualified and legitimate target to trot out on the field. Especially when he's supposed to be the 3rd or 4th receiving target on this team.

and besides, that's 1 year. a down year. Cycles happen. My initial post was responding to someone who seems to think nobody ever does anything on this team except for the QB, and it's garbage.

I definitely agree that it's BS that Rodgers has been the only one making plays on offense but the talent level on offense was underwhelming last season and as long as you count on Allison being a starter it might not improve enough in 2019.

I think that our new O line coach will be better than Campen ever was. Partly because Campen was over-rated.

Campen did a great job coaching the offensive line, especially considering the Packers allocated less draft capital towards the line than any other team for most of his tenure.

I'm already on record that I think the draft needs priorities should be (or slight variation of): OLB, OT, TE, S, OG, OLB, slot WR, ILB, BPA for last 2 picks. Only have 4 shots at Day 1 & 2 picks, the rest are day 3 "just guys".

Ideally, OLB/DL, OL, are my first choices. Then I'd put ILB/Safety and TE and then RB/WR.

Wide receiver should definitely be higher on the team's priority list this offseason. While Gutekunst should sign a decent veteran tight end to a reasonable deal I don't see the need to draft one early.

there's really only this off-season to make a significant dent. the Packers and rodgers were incredibly shortsighted in the extension deal. after this off-season it's back to watching nickels and dimes.

The Packers should have enough cap space to make moves even with Rodgers cap hit increasing as long as they finally start to draft well again resulting in sone youngsters still on rookie contracts having an impact.

I don't understand those who think G-Mo is a no.4 receiver. He's easily a number 3, probably fringe no. 2.

He played 5 games last year, hurt mid year, and ended up on IR. In those 5 games, 20 catches, 303 yards, 2 TDs. 15.2 yards per catch.

60.6 yards/game, 5 catches/game.

That 970 yards, 80 catches, and 6 TDs over a 16 game season.

You're not going to confuse him for Adams, but those would be great number for a number 2 receiver in any scheme.

I'm surprised Allison put up numbers that good last season. I won't feel comfortable about him being anything more than the #4 option moving forward though.

 

[Mondio]

I don't understand those who think G-Mo is a no.4 receiver. He's easily a number 3, probably fringe no. 2.

He played 5 games last year, hurt mid year, and ended up on IR. In those 5 games, 20 catches, 303 yards, 2 TDs. 15.2 yards per catch.

60.6 yards/game, 5 catches/game.

That 970 yards, 80 catches, and 6 TDs over a 16 game season.

You're not going to confuse him for Adams, but those would be great number for a number 2 receiver in any scheme.

Just to clarify, I said he was a #3 on pretty much every team in the league. I happen to think he's a decent receiver, good size, good enough speed to play a long time in the league, and has worked on his craft. Only played a year or 2 of high school football. Played at a junior college before finishing at IL and went undrafted. Needed time to develop. He seems to have, and was looking pretty good with all the things that make receivers successful.

I said he was #4 passing option, as Adams, Cobb, Graham were probably higher focal points in the offense to start the year.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't agree with this at all. Would P. Mahommes won the MVP with marginal talent around him on offense? Would he still of thrown 50TD'S with marginal talent?

I want 50 TD's . I want teams to come into Lambeau and get dizzy watching the Packers players jumping into the stands after TD's so much. I want to break the other teams will with them not being able to "Stop Us". I want to light that scoreboard up so much they gotta change the lights after every game.

I'm tired of drafting and developing on defense. It has cost us championships and has left us with a gutted roster. Go get a couple good defensive free agents and let Pettine coach and put a middle of the road defense together. Also, defense's play better when there "ahead" on scoreboard.

The question isn't "can the offense be better", of course it can! What does elite talent on Mahomes team have anything to do with my point? Tell me another position on defense that has as much impact as a great QB has on an offense, it doesn't exist. Yes, obviously having elite talent on offense is WONDERFUL. However, putting together a decent defense when said defense lacks any pass rush threat or elite playmaker (I like Kenny Clark, he's very good, but not in the Aaron Donald/Geno Atkins style of pass rush threat) is pretty much impossible. Right now, as is, the Packers can rely on the offense being top-10 with the current personnel. Asking the defense, as is, to be top-10 is basically crossing your fingers and hoping that a bunch of guys suddenly make huge leaps.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

This year provided plenty of proof that more is needed on offense.

I think this year proved the Packers need more help at coach, and they got it.