Rebuild a new LaFleur offense or get what Pettine needs on defense?

[Mondio]

This notion that it's been all Rodgers all the time is horseshit. he's really good, but no man does it alone. He's had plenty to work with over the years, and last year was mostly because of youth, not lack of talent. I saw him miss throws to those rookies bad enough on multiple occassions that a cross between Jerry and Megatron wouldn't have made the catches either.

Allison is probably easily at least a #3 on almost every team in the league. He can't catch? Not tall enough? Doesn't run routes well enough? or are you stuck on draft positions? and he was supposed to be the 3rd or 4th target on THIS team anyway before injuries changed that.

 

[Mondio]

The scheme was predicated on guys winning their 1 on 1 battles, and Rodgers being able to thread the needle on tight window throws. You're right that the execution was lacking this year, but part of it is not having multiple above average route runners (Nelson, Cobb, Jennings, Driver, etc.), and Rodgers being limited through injuries, along with not playing up to his all time great standards. That makes it difficult to consistently produce with McCarthy's philosophy.

What the new scheme will do is make it easier to execute. Not everything is going to be predicated on man beater routes. Not everything is going to be predicted on Rodgers routinely having to put the ball in a 6 inch window.

What also hurt the Packers just as bad as anything else was the predictability of what we were trying to do. The days of teams being fooled or intimidated by what we were going to do had long passed.

LaFleur is going to make this squad considerably more dynamic almost overnight.

to a degree, I agree. But as we saw on Sunday night, that only works until you get figured out. The Pats were ready for every route they were running on almost every play.

It does make it tougher to get the offense in synch with an offense based on MM's system, it also makes it tougher to defend when it's working. It wasn't all just Rodgers over the years. The pass catchers had a lot to do with it too. and last year was basically Adams as the ONLY pass catcher with a year or more in the system. Everyone else was basically brand new. It makes it tough, as we saw. There are pro's and con's to every offense.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

My response has been stated several times. I believe there are many areas that need help both offensive and defense. I also believe that the chance of us building an elite defense by the end of Rodgers tenure is next to zero. What I am completely against is drafting and developing defense on a massive scale which has failed us miserably. I would like to see the Packers going the free agency route to fill holes with developed players keeping the Packers defense competitive.

On offense I would like to see a shift in direction by using our top picks to get stout OL and RB's that can come in a contribute immediately and produce. This year I believe they need to add a difference maker in the slot as well.

I believe the Packers and mostly Thompson have gone with a backwards approach building the roster.

Going defense heavy makes sense when you have an elite QB though. An elite QB can make every other position on offense better. There is no comparable position on defense. One elite QB on offense can make an entire offense elite. You need multiple great players on a defense to field a great defense (or have Belichick as your coach I guess).

 

[PackAttack12]

to a degree, I agree. But as we saw on Sunday night, that only works until you get figured out. The Pats were ready for every route they were running on almost every play.

It does make it tougher to get the offense in synch with an offense based on MM's system, it also makes it tougher to defend when it's working. It wasn't all just Rodgers over the years. The pass catchers had a lot to do with it too. and last year was basically Adams as the ONLY pass catcher with a year or more in the system. Everyone else was basically brand new. It makes it tough, as we saw. There are pro's and con's to every offense.

That's why I mentioned the lack of above average route runners. I'm not going to act as if Cobb and Allison going down didn't play a huge role because it did. And I'm not saying it's all Aaron Rodgers whenever it works, but it's very important to have a quarterback as accurate as he is and there aren't many.

The Rams got figured out because they were laughably conservative especially in early down situations, their offense line got absolutely whipped, and Goff was dear in the headlights. He ain't no A-Rod.

 

[PackAttack12]

Going defense heavy makes sense when you have an elite QB though. An elite QB can make every other position on offense better. There is no comparable position on defense. One elite QB on offense can make an entire offense elite. You need multiple great players on a defense to field a great defense (or have Belichick as your coach I guess).

This year provided plenty of proof that more is needed on offense.

 

[brandon2348]

The scheme was predicated on guys winning their 1 on 1 battles, and Rodgers being able to thread the needle on tight window throws. You're right that the execution was lacking this year, but part of it is not having multiple above average route runners (Nelson, Cobb, Jennings, Driver, etc.), and Rodgers being limited through injuries, along with not playing up to his all time great standards. That makes it difficult to consistently produce with McCarthy's philosophy.

What the new scheme will do is make it easier to execute. Not everything is going to be predicated on man beater routes. Not everything is going to be predicted on Rodgers routinely having to put the ball in a 6 inch window.

What also hurt the Packers just as bad as anything else was the predictability of what we were trying to do. The days of teams being fooled or intimidated by what we were going to do had long passed.

LaFleur is going to make this squad considerably more dynamic almost overnight.

Your still gonna need "dynamic players" to get "dynamic results". He really didn't make the Titans anymore "dynamic".

Yes he will scheme guys open but those guys still need to be very talented.

 

[PackAttack12]

Your still gonna need "dynamic players" to get "dynamic results". He really didn't make the Titans anymore "dynamic".

Yes he will scheme guys open but those guys still need to be very talented.

By more dynamic, I mean in comparison to what we witnessed last year under McCarthy. You and I are on the same page in regards to needing more talent.

 

[brandon2348]

Going defense heavy makes sense when you have an elite QB though. An elite QB can make every other position on offense better. There is no comparable position on defense. One elite QB on offense can make an entire offense elite. You need multiple great players on a defense to field a great defense (or have Belichick as your coach I guess).

I don't agree with this at all. Would P. Mahommes won the MVP with marginal talent around him on offense? Would he still of thrown 50TD'S with marginal talent?

I want 50 TD's . I want teams to come into Lambeau and get dizzy watching the Packers players jumping into the stands after TD's so much. I want to break the other teams will with them not being able to "Stop Us". I want to light that scoreboard up so much they gotta change the lights after every game.

I'm tired of drafting and developing on defense. It has cost us championships and has left us with a gutted roster. Go get a couple good defensive free agents and let Pettine coach and put a middle of the road defense together. Also, defense's play better when there "ahead" on scoreboard.

 

[brandon2348]

That's why I mentioned the lack of above average route runners. I'm not going to act as if Cobb and Allison going down didn't play a huge role because it did. And I'm not saying it's all Aaron Rodgers whenever it works, but it's very important to have a quarterback as accurate as he is and there aren't many.

The Rams got figured out because they were laughably conservative especially in early down situations, their offense line got absolutely whipped, and Goff was dear in the headlights. He ain't no A-Rod.

I posted somewhere else the Rams win that game going away with Rodgers in place of Goff.

 

[brandon2348]

I posted somewhere else the Rams win that game going away with Rodgers in place of Goff.

Rodgers(with a bad knee) can slide around in the pocket better then Goff. That Goff is an "Iron Deer" back in the pocket. No ability to slide around in pocket to avoid rush while creating passing lanes. He lacks ability to go through progression while under pressure and minimal ability to extend play.

The Rams are crazy if they give him 30 million a year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you remember the 2011 Packers? A team that i believe is still the fifth highest scoring offense of all time? Do you remember how bad the defense was? Do you remember how embarrassing the loss to the Giants was? Anyway as mentioned it is not ALL about the offense, it requires balance and that is fact not just opinion.

Actually no team that has had one of the top 11 scoring offenses in league history has won the Super Bowl.

On offense I would like to see a shift in direction by using our top picks to get stout OL and RB's that can come in a contribute immediately and produce.

I agree the Packers need to improve on offense this offseason but running back shouldn't be a top priority.

This notion that it's been all Rodgers all the time is horseshit. he's really good, but no man does it alone. He's had plenty to work with over the years, and last year was mostly because of youth, not lack of talent.

Allison is probably easily at least a #3 on almost every team in the league. He can't catch? Not tall enough? Doesn't run routes well enough? or are you stuck on draft positions? and he was supposed to be the 3rd or 4th target on THIS team anyway before injuries changed that.

It's true Rodgers struggled at times last season but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that a lack of talent hugely contributed to it.

Allison is a decent backup but shouldn't be relied to start for a contending team.

 

[Mondio]

It wasn't the most talented team we've ever had that's for sure. But if you told most people that you had to run an offense with Adams, Cobb, Graham, Gmo Jones and Williams with Rodgers as QB, i'm guessing most people would say they had more than just chicken **** at the skill positions. and even with it being a down year, they certainly could have done MORE with what they had. and maybe Gmo is never more than junk, but how are you going to tell me that a guy that makes a great catch, on a great throw too, against the Bears shouldn't be anything? Because his draft position , or lack of one, tells us so? Fueller is a dang good DB, and Gmo makes a one handed grab for a TD while he has his left arm hooked by one of the leagues better DB's.

He's a player that needed to be developed, and he had a nice start to his 3rd year in the league. Running good routes, being where he should be be and catching the ball. There's no doubt in my that Allison is an absolutely qualified and legitimate target to trot out on the field. Especially when he's supposed to be the 3rd or 4th receiving target on this team.

and besides, that's 1 year. a down year. Cycles happen. My initial post was responding to someone who seems to think nobody ever does anything on this team except for the QB, and it's garbage.

 

[PackAttack12]

It wasn't the most talented team we've ever had that's for sure. But if you told most people that you had to run an offense with Adams, Cobb, Graham, Gmo Jones and Williams with Rodgers as QB, i'm guessing most people would say they had more than just chicken **** at the skill positions. and even with it being a down year, they certainly could have done MORE with what they had. and maybe Gmo is never more than junk, but how are you going to tell me that a guy that makes a great catch, on a great throw too, against the Bears shouldn't be anything? Because his draft position , or lack of one, tells us so? Fueller is a dang good DB, and Gmo makes a one handed grab for a TD while he has his left arm hooked by one of the leagues better DB's.

He's a player that needed to be developed, and he had a nice start to his 3rd year in the league. Running good routes, being where he should be be and catching the ball. There's no doubt in my that Allison is an absolutely qualified and legitimate target to trot out on the field. Especially when he's supposed to be the 3rd or 4th receiving target on this team.

and besides, that's 1 year. a down year. Cycles happen. My initial post was responding to someone who seems to think nobody ever does anything on this team except for the QB, and it's garbage.

Cobb cannot be relied upon and while I'm a fan of Allison, you don't count on him being more than a 3rd or 4th option on your team.

Two guys couldn't consistently make it onto the field (Cobb, Allison) and it turned into a freak show. We need more.

Rodgers isn't the only guy who does anything, but it's been damn close over recent years. Look at what happened in the NFC Championship game against Atlanta when he was just about the only guy who showed up. That game exposed the talent or lack thereof on this team.

It's on the road to being improved, but we still got a ways to go.

 

[brandon2348]

It wasn't the most talented team we've ever had that's for sure. But if you told most people that you had to run an offense with Adams, Cobb, Graham, Gmo Jones and Williams with Rodgers as QB, i'm guessing most people would say they had more than just chicken **** at the skill positions. and even with it being a down year, they certainly could have done MORE with what they had. and maybe Gmo is never more than junk, but how are you going to tell me that a guy that makes a great catch, on a great throw too, against the Bears shouldn't be anything? Because his draft position , or lack of one, tells us so? Fueller is a dang good DB, and Gmo makes a one handed grab for a TD while he has his left arm hooked by one of the leagues better DB's.

He's a player that needed to be developed, and he had a nice start to his 3rd year in the league. Running good routes, being where he should be be and catching the ball. There's no doubt in my that Allison is an absolutely qualified and legitimate target to trot out on the field. Especially when he's supposed to be the 3rd or 4th receiving target on this team.

and besides, that's 1 year. a down year. Cycles happen. My initial post was responding to someone who seems to think nobody ever does anything on this team except for the QB, and it's garbage.

If you wanna play onesie twosie then let's point out the G-Mo drop against Carolina during Rodgers shoulder injury comeback that ended our chance to win the game on 4th down. Remember that?

My point is you gotta look at the full body of work with these guys and it's just "NOTHING SPECIAL". There is a decent amount of people that appear to be in denial regarding this and it's rather alarming.

The reality is Cobb is done and besides Adam's we have a bunch of 4's. If Adam's gets hurt the season is over. This all very understandable when you have made the staple of your WR core day 3 picks and an UDFA. It's fine to supplement some of those guys in but they shouldn't be the bread and butter of our unit. If the Packers dont address it we will continue to lose. Period.

 

[Mondio]

If you wanna play onesie twosie then let's point out the G-Mo drop against Carolina during Rodgers shoulder injury comeback that ended our chance to win the game on 4th down. Remember that?

My point is you gotta look at the full body of work with these guys and it's just "NOTHING SPECIAL". There is a decent amount of people that appear to be in denial regarding this and it's rather alarming.

The reality is Cobb is done and besides Adam's we have a bunch of 4's. If Adam's gets hurt the season is over. This all very understandable when you have made the staple of your WR core day 3 picks and an UDFA. It's fine to supplement some of those guys in but they shouldn't be the bread and butter of our unit. If the Packers dont address it we will continue to lose. Period.

I do remember his fumble. I also remember Jordy dropping TD's against the Seahawks that would have been helpful too. What's your point? Gmo was a player that needed to be developed, he looked to be coming along nicely and was our 3rd or 4th passing option, and a pretty decent one at that. You say he's nothing, I say he'd likely be a 3 on almost every single team in the league. I'm not sure what your issue is?

 

[Mondio]

Cobb cannot be relied upon and while I'm a fan of Allison, you don't count on him being more than a 3rd or 4th option on your team.

Two guys couldn't consistently make it onto the field (Cobb, Allison) and it turned into a freak show. We need more.

Rodgers isn't the only guy who does anything, but it's been damn close over recent years. Look at what happened in the NFC Championship game against Atlanta when he was just about the only guy who showed up. That game exposed the talent or lack thereof on this team.

It's on the road to being improved, but we still got a ways to go.

He was our 3rd or 4th option. I'm not saying our offense is super talented. I'm saying that outside of the last year or 2 it has been absolutely more than enough talent wise to do a lot. But someone on here thinks it's all Rodgers all the time. He couldn't be more wrong.

 

[brandon2348]

I do remember his fumble. I also remember Jordy dropping TD's against the Seahawks that would have been helpful too. What's your point? Gmo was a player that needed to be developed, he looked to be coming along nicely and was our 3rd or 4th passing option, and a pretty decent one at that. You say he's nothing, I say he'd likely be a 3 on almost every single team in the league. I'm not sure what your issue is?

Develop his 4.7 speed? Really? G-Mo is maxed out and nothing more then a more polished version of Boykin.

He should be a depth guy and if the Packers let him go he will have to compete to even make a roster as a depth guy somewhere else. Nobody is gonna bring him in to be a no.2 or a no.3 unless there in a total rebuild and just wanna go cheap to plug a hole while they build somewhere else to build up cap space.

We surely need to do better.

 

[Mondio]

Develop his 4.7 speed? Really? G-Mo is maxed out and nothing more then a more polished version of Boykin.

He should be a depth guy and if the Packers let him go he will have to compete to even make a roster as a depth guy somewhere else. Nobody is gonna bring him in to be a no.2 or a no.3 unless there in a total rebuild and just wanna go cheap to plug a hole while they build somewhere else to build up cap space.

We surely need to do better.

For the last ****ing time for the slow people in the back. He's OUR 3rd or 4th option. and a fine one at that. Speed is one single and probably least important aspect of playing WR. Almost every single person in the league is "fast" enough to play WR. It's the route running, understanding where to be, position and making a catch. I've seen plenty of 4.3 and 4.4 amount to far less than than 4.7 Gmo.

Find me one post where I said he's a #1 or #2. don't come back till you find it and can quote it. Deal?

 

[brandon2348]

For the last ******* time for the slow people in the back. He's OUR 3rd or 4th option. and a fine one at that. Speed is one single and probably least important aspect of playing WR. Almost every single person in the league is "fast" enough to play WR. It's the route running, understanding where to be, position and making a catch. I've seen plenty of 4.3 and 4.4 amount to far less than than 4.7 Gmo.

Find me one post where I said he's a #1 or #2. don't come back till you find it and can quote it. Deal?

But he was our no.3 when the season started and thats the problem. G-Mo wouldn't of made the roster in 2010-2011 and that's where we need to get our recieving corp too win again. We need to invest more and quit tricking ourselves that we can do it with nothing more then day 3 picks and UDFAS.

There were lines of people on here that thought we would be fine with G-Mo as a starter and it failed.

 

[Mondio]

He was on IR most of the season. Nice analysis LOL. and I'm sure Adams, Cobb, and Graham were all ahead of Gmo when making plans. and FYI, Gmo has been clocked at over 20MPH on the field, so it appears your mythical 4.7 speed is also only in your mind. He's run mostly in the 4.55 4.6 or so range, you know Jordy and Adams type speed. But whatever makes him sound worse right? Solid

 

[brandon2348]

He was on IR most of the season. Nice analysis LOL. and I'm sure Adams, Cobb, and Graham were all ahead of Gmo when making plans. and FYI, Gmo has been clocked at over 20MPH on the field, so it appears your mythical 4.7 speed is also only in your mind. He's run mostly in the 4.55 4.6 or so range, you know Jordy and Adams type speed. But whatever makes him sound worse right? Solid

I've given you the bar for success. Were not winning a Super Bowl with G-Mo as our no.3. He is a depth guy who can fill in here and there. In actuality he is a Poor Man's Donald Driver. We need the real thing.

"Fake Nikes"

 

[Mondio]

He's a completely different type of receiver than Donald Driver. and I haven't bought any type of Nikes in probably 20 years.

 

[brandon2348]

and I haven't bought any type of Nikes in probably 20 years.

Either has Ted Thompson.

I'm starting to understand the trend here with certain posters.

 

[gbgary]

But he was our no.3 when the season started and thats the problem. G-Mo wouldn't of made the roster in 2010-2011 and that's where we need to get our recieving corp too win again. We need to invest more and quit tricking ourselves that we can do it with nothing more then day 3 picks and UDFAS.

There were lines of people on here that thought we would be fine with G-Mo as a starter and it failed.

yup. in reality cobb was our #3. the same place he's been for the last several years. we had no #2. we still don't. i laughed when some here thought graham could/would be the 2. he was barely an adequate TE. this team needs a 2 in the worst way. hell...it really needs a 3 now too if we're being honest. can someone take that slot spot and really run with it? it will be interesting to see.

 

[Mondio]

Either has Ted Thompson.

I'm starting to understand the trend here with certain posters.

That we don't buy over priced junk from child slave labor countries?

anyway, I also notice a trend. When every argument you've had is debunked, you resort to this.