Agree. The most important thing for a rookie RB getting on the field in GB is to pass block. If all else is equal, pick up the blocking scheme and you will get playing time.
RB situation for us and rest of North
- Thread starter Arthur Squires
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Pokerbrat2000
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I agree, or at least I hope so. The only part that concerns me a bit is history. What we saw out of Don Jackson last year as well as a few other mid to late round or UDFA RB's in the past, wasn't that special. It will be interesting to see how this all works out, but TT and the Packers must feel comfortable enough with Monty and whoever earns the spots behind him.
Arthur Squires
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I feel the same way. If it was so simple for rookie RBs to succeed wouldn't teams come away with no need for any more RBs through the draft. There would be no need for a RB for us if that was the case. Crockett or Jackson weren't successful. Or how about Alex Green as a 3rd Rd pick 4 or 5 years ago? There are probably a handful of RBs every draft class that are top notch then some serviceable backs with the occasional surprise mixed in.
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HardRightEdge
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I liked his tape.
He has the physical tools of an NFL running back. Plays bigger than his size.
He's a north-south, one-cut-and-go type runner with quick feet, good instincts and burst who should fit the scheme. Good pad level, and that's no joke. He takes the ball with forward lean and gets low on contact. He breaks tackles. The thing that really stood out is he finishes runs with attitude, gets the extra yard.
He's got some zig in his zag at the second/third level even if he does not have breakaway speed at 4.53.
He's a decent pass blocker.
He's kind of the antithesis of Lacy who was finesse at the line with jump cuts and spins but a bull once into the second level. Williams has the makings of the short yardage runner that Lacy was not with some wiggle when he gets in space. Physically and stylistically he reminds me of Ahman Green without Green's top end speed. Williams will also not be the beneficiary of Green's run blocking line.
I think he's the best value-for-pick in this Packer draft in year 1 at a position of need.
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HardRightEdge
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Alex Green was one of Thompson's worst picks. He was an "in space" player only. He made all his hay in college running delays and draws untouched to the second level. He didn't show any evidence of being physical enough for the NFL. I don't know what they were thinking here. Well, yeah I do. They wanted a 3rd. down back. But those guys still have to run the ball against an NFL front 7. Everybody talks about the step up in speed and athleticism at the pro level. Well, that athletic defensive move comes with a whole lot more punch as well.
If you want to see what a running back can do, watch was he does between taking the hand off and getting to and through the hole. That's where the play is made. After that, if he wiggles through the secondary that's a bonus. If a college back runs through a hole in front of his face that a car could drive through and scampers untouched, that doesn't show anything except maybe speed. You don't get that gift very often in the pros.
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Arthur Squires
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My point being rookie backs don't just step in and contribute to the offense, which even with Rodgers as our QB, is very important. You need a Runningback if your lucky 2 of them that can take the pressure off your pass game and help control the clock. That's Day 1 stuff!!!
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Deleted member 6794
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DeAngelo Williams is most likely the best running back currently available in free agency. At age 34 the Packers should pass on him and every other RB on the market though.
You're absolutely right that it's not a given a rookie running back will succeed. The chances are better than at most other positions tthough even by only investing day three picks. Just take a look at Jordan Howard, who was drafted in the fifth round last year and finished in second in the league in rushing yards.
elcid
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I also noticed DeAngelo was still a free agent and I agree that due to age we should pass on him, but if our RBs tend to disappoint in camp surely we can do worse then go after Karlos Williams? He showed a lot of promise during his rookie season, shifty and able to catch the ball out of the backfield. I remember him violating the substance abuse policy, is this the reason teams have not come calling for him?
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Deleted member 6794
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Karlos Williams has already been suspended twice because of violating the league's substance abuse policy for a total of 14 games since entering the league in 2015 and was released by the Bills for showing up to training camp out of shape. No, thanks.
elcid
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But if our RB situation points out to be really dire in camp? Maybe he won't add much to what our rookies can do, but I for one am still worried that if our run game can not produce our offense becomes as one dimensional as we saw last year during the middle stretch. At times we saw teams not respecting the run at all and this put a lot of pressure on Arod. Im just saying that the Packers with the amount of cap space they have are normally in a position to take flyers on these kinds of players on 1 year contracts against veteran minimum wages, yet never do. I know Karlos wont be the answer in the long term, but he might be enough as a stop gap. I'm also fine with going with what we got and getting Bell next year, whichever floats the boat of the front office
Curly Calhoun
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As long as #12 is around, Green Bay will continue to be a pass-first team. Running backs in Titletown need to be able to:
1) Pass block
2) Catch.
3) Pick up third-and-one.
4) Run just enough to keep the defense honest.
Anything they do beyond that is house money. GB doesn't need a 25-30 carries a game guy, which is good, because they don't have any. We won't really know what they have in the rookie class until we see them in action, but it at least appears to be a good group. Montgomery, while not elite, has shown that can be a decent back in this league, and if one of the rookies can do the same, the Pack should be in good enough shape at that position. For me, this is one area on the team that, barring injuries, is of low concern.
1) Pass block
2) Catch.
3) Pick up third-and-one.
4) Run just enough to keep the defense honest.
Anything they do beyond that is house money. GB doesn't need a 25-30 carries a game guy, which is good, because they don't have any. We won't really know what they have in the rookie class until we see them in action, but it at least appears to be a good group. Montgomery, while not elite, has shown that can be a decent back in this league, and if one of the rookies can do the same, the Pack should be in good enough shape at that position. For me, this is one area on the team that, barring injuries, is of low concern.
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Deleted member 6794
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But if our RB situation points out to be really dire in camp? Maybe he won't add much to what our rookies can do, but I for one am still worried that if our run game can not produce our offense becomes as one dimensional as we saw last year during the middle stretch. At times we saw teams not respecting the run at all and this put a lot of pressure on Arod. Im just saying that the Packers with the amount of cap space they have are normally in a position to take flyers on these kinds of players on 1 year contracts against veteran minimum wages, yet never do. I know Karlos wont be the answer in the long term, but he might be enough as a stop gap. I'm also fine with going with what we got and getting Bell next year, whichever floats the boat of the front office
I would have been fine with the Packers adding a veteran running back in free agency but as of right now there's not another available I'm interested in. Even if the position group struggles in the preseason there's no need to bring in Karlos Williams.
I am a bit surprised as well but to be totally honest there really wasn't any veteran FAs that really thrilled me. Besides Blount the guy I was most intrigued by was Rex Burkhead and I wouldn't call him an established veteran.
This is true. However I loved having Eddie Lacy for those first two years when we could realistically expect to be more than "just fine" at the position and I'd love to have that again. Even though this team runs on Aaron Rodgers having a real threat at RB only makes his job easier. I don't think anyone expected Jordan Howard to be a real threat in Chicago last year though so maybe one of these rookies can pull off something close. I'm not expecting Howard like numbers from any one of them but that sort of effectiveness would be nice. I'm also cautiously optimistic that Montgomery can emerge
Its the guys like Jordan Howard who fuel this line of thinking. Every year it seems a back or maybe a couple come out and have great rookie seasons and that makes everyone think that taking one of the top rated backs early is a waste. They seem to forget all the other RBs drafted late who fail to make any sort of impression at all. We don't have to draft a guy like Fournette or Cook or McCaffrey because Jordan Howard was a 5th rounder and Terell Davis was a 6th rounder and Priest Holmes and Arian Foster were went undrafted. I know that highly drafted picks can bust but when you look at a list of the best running backs of all time more of them were drafted in the first round than the 5th.
With Aaron Rodgers as our QB our running game will always be second fiddle and because of that investing a lot in it is often seen as a waste. I get that and to some extent I agree I don't necessarily need a 1300+ yard rusher I just want someone who is effective when they do carry the ball. A guy who, when its 3rd and 3, can come in and maybe carry the ball and gain 3 yards without the defense thinking its going to be a pass anyway. With our passing game I'd take a guy with a 4.5+ yard average over total yards any day. Our RBs are not going to get the number of carries needed for that anyway and with Aaron they probably shouldn't. Still, I keep hoping that we can find another Ahman Green somewhere along the way.
gbgary
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i like his tenacious style.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Bingo!
I think the same thing to myself everytime I hear someone say "Look what the Bears did at the RB position with a 5th round pick". While I am not armed with the stat, I want to reply with "Look at what these 32 teams did over the last 10 years with a 5th round pick or higher at RB. Howard has become the new gold standard, that people want to bring up as "see, you can fill the RB position with anyone and have success." IMO Howard is the exception, not the rule.
Dantés
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There's definitely a balance. You really don't need to invest a first round pick there, but you also can't just expect that every late rounder you spend on the position will be competent.
To me, the way the Packers addressed the position spoke both to their confidence in Montgomery as well as their awareness that depth was a big need.
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HardRightEdge
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As in, "The thing that really stood out is he finishes runs with attitude, gets the extra yard." One would not know that without looking at some tape.
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Deleted member 6794
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I agree there wasn't any intriguing veteran running back available in free agency but it might have been smart to add some experience to the depth chart anyway.
While it's absolutely true that not every running back selected on day three pans out by any means it's easier to find talented players at the position late in the draft than at most others.
Just take a look at last season's stats when five RBs drafted in the fourth round or later ranked within the top 10 in rushing yards as well as six among the qualifying league leaders in yards per attempt.
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HardRightEdge
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Running back remains the position where transition from college ball is the easiest as far as the primary job of running the ball is concerned. So much depends on vision, instincts and timing, which cannot be taught. How one comes by the ability to set up blocks is a mystery. These skills involve sub-1/10 second decisions, which we cannot even call "decisions".
There are different styles of runners, so you have to find a guy who fits what you're trying to do. For example, consider Adrian Peterson being a much lesser runner out of shotgun. The patience required throws off his natural timing.
Pass blocking and route running might take time to develop depending on what the guy was asked to do in college. Or they might not develop at all which then requires a decision.
Given the success on any one run often involves the quality of the split second "decision", the question I have looking at tape is the tiny margin of difference between a good college runner and a lousy one in the NFL.
So, we wait for preseason.
There are different styles of runners, so you have to find a guy who fits what you're trying to do. For example, consider Adrian Peterson being a much lesser runner out of shotgun. The patience required throws off his natural timing.
Pass blocking and route running might take time to develop depending on what the guy was asked to do in college. Or they might not develop at all which then requires a decision.
Given the success on any one run often involves the quality of the split second "decision", the question I have looking at tape is the tiny margin of difference between a good college runner and a lousy one in the NFL.
So, we wait for preseason.
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HardRightEdge
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What are you talking about? Several posters here were calling Montgomery the second coming of Le'veon Bell!I'm also fine with going with what we got and getting Bell next year, whichever floats the boat of the front office
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Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I also think that is a by product of the league putting less draft stock into the RB position, in other words, teams are waiting until the 3rd round and later to draft the majority of the RB's.
I couldn't find exact percentages, but just by looking at this chart and using the eye test, it looks like the majority of running backs have been selected in the 3rd round and later. Also, just like most positions, many were complete busts and a few had excellent careers in the NFL.
http://drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/rb
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Deleted member 6794
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I don't deny that a lot of running backs selected in the late rounds ended up being busts but there's no doubt it's possible to find great value on the third day of the draft at the position, easier than at most others.
You don't need to invest a high pick but IMO the odds are better for you to hit if you do. If you are not going to invest a high pick then you had better invest a lot of low picks and that is what the Packers did. Throw enough at the wall and eventually some will stick. The Packers are throwing a lot.
