Post MM firing -- coaching search: who we want -- ALL threads merged

[Mondio]

Right, but the season for the Packers was basically over by the time those 2 went out with injuries. I'm trying to remember when the Packers actually looked like a highly competitive team at the beginning of the season, pre-any injuries. Wilkerson and maybe GMO were the only 2 significant injuries when the Packers were still in the hunt. Of course Rodgers knee factors into it as well. But in all seriousness, lets say by some luck, the Packers had suffered no major injuries all year, are they a legit Super Bowl contender?

That's not how this started. You implied Pettine was handcuffed by his staff that you think was "forced" upon him. I brought up everything else that happened as being the more likely reason why he didn't as much out of the defense as maybe some would have liked. And even so, the defense has not been terrible, at all.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's not how this started. You implied Pettine was handcuffed by his staff that you think was "forced" upon him. I brought up everything else that happened as being the more likely reason why he didn't as much out of the defense as maybe some would have liked. And even so, the defense has not been terrible, at all.

Right and I likened that to Philbin being given the HC job, with a few minor tweaks with other coaches, something I don't want to see happen, Which is what I think happened last year with Capers being replaced by Pettine and hardly anything else changed, besides more draft capital having to be pumped in. Your premise is that the defense improved slightly, so all is fine with the positional coaches. I guess we will see what Murphy and Gute think about all of the positional coaches very soon.

 

[PackAttack12]

What Pettine has been able to do to remove some of the stank off of this defense has been nothing short of miraculous. If Pettine is retained, I have a feeling we're going to see a pretty considerable overhaul to most of the defensive staff.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What Pettine has been able to do to remove some of the stank off of this defense has been nothing short of miraculous. If Pettine is retained, I have a feeling we're going to see a pretty considerable overhaul to most of the defensive staff.

I hope so. If it takes getting rid of Pettine to accomplish that, so be it. I have to wonder how much influence MM had on keeping Moss, Whitt, Simmons, Zook, etc.?

 

[Mondio]

Right and I likened that to Philbin being given the HC job, with a few minor tweaks with other coaches, something I don't want to see happen, Which is what I think happened last year with Capers being replaced by Pettine and hardly anything else changed, besides more draft capital having to be pumped in. Your premise is that the defense improved slightly, so all is fine with the positional coaches. I guess we will see what Murphy and Gute think about all of the positional coaches very soon.

HC was fired in season, it's not a stretch to say that everyone is new next season. and no, my premise is Pettine was limited far more by available players this season than being handcuffed by position coaches on staff.

 

[FarmerPackerFan]

I hope so. If it takes getting rid of Pettine to accomplish that, so be it. I have to wonder how much influence MM had on keeping Moss, Whitt, Simmons, Zook, etc.?

I believe McCarthy had a lot of influence on keeping those assistant coaches (especially as Zook was the ST coordinator and not defense), but I am guessing that Pettine wouldn't have taken the job if he believed that the assistants weren't worth working with. Now after a full season some of those opinions from Pettine might have changed and I am guessing that if he does end up staying he might lobby for more control over his position coaches.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

HC was fired in season, it's not a stretch to say that everyone is new next season. and no, my premise is Pettine was limited far more by available players this season than being handcuffed by position coaches on staff.

Yup and my premise is that position coaches have been responsible for under developing guys and getting them to play up to their full potential. Will be interesting to see what happens when new coaches are brought in. If you are correct, we will still have a sack of ......mixed goods and coaching might not make a difference. If I am correct, we will start to see some better and consistent growth out of some of our younger guys.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

For some reason, I find this statement strangely disturbing. Is there some reason a black coach would be a problem ?

Not at all. Rather than dream about either of the Harbaughs, I have Flores and Tomlin as my top picks currently.

What I find strangely disturbing(and perhaps you should too), is the need for a "Rooney Rule" in 2019. But I don't want to open up that can of worms in this thread.

 

[Mondio]

Yup and my premise is that position coaches have been responsible for under developing guys and getting them to play up to their full potential. Will be interesting to see what happens when new coaches are brought in. If you are correct, we will still have a sack of ......mixed goods and coaching might not make a difference. If I am correct, we will start to see some better and consistent growth out of some of our younger guys.

Another big stretch to think that year 2 players will be better than year 1 lol

 

[ls1bob]

Jim Harbaugh is my number one choice,but even though Pettine has said he wouldn’t want to be a HC anymore,I would be all for it. AR has praised Pettine since training camp for the way he coaches and runs the defense. Hire a good OC and we will be set.

 

[pacmaniac]

If Jim Caldwell was brought in solely to satisfy the Rooney Rule, then we can say Eric Bienemy is not on the Packers list of 12 candidates.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Another big stretch to think that year 2 players will be better than year 1 lol

Who said I was speaking only about this years rookies? I would also like to see Josh Jones, Kevin King, Montravius Adams, Spriggs, Lowery, etc all get better.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Jim Caldwell was brought in solely to satisfy the Rooney Rule, then we can say Eric Bienemy is not on the Packers list of 12 candidates.

Bienemy can't start interviewing until the Chiefs season is over and that might be awhile. Personally, I think people are making too much out of the "Rooney Rule" in regards to Caldwell, but that may just be me.

 

[GleefulGary]

Who said I was speaking only about this years rookies? I would also like to see Josh Jones, Kevin King, Montravius Adams, Spriggs, Lowery, etc all get better.

I'm sorry...are you saying they haven't?

Because I'm not sure anybody can watch these guys and say they haven't gotten better. Kevin King for one was a legitimate starter this year...last year he was pretty meh.

I think all those guys have gotten better and it's pretty obvious.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm sorry...are you saying they haven't?

Because I'm not sure anybody can watch these guys and say they haven't gotten better. Kevin King for one was a legitimate starter this year...last year he was pretty meh.

I think all those guys have gotten better and it's pretty obvious.

First, Mondio thought I meant seeing improvement from year one to year 2 players. That wasn't all I was referring too. Second, I don't see anything better of Josh Jones and King....meh....he came to the Packers with ability and yes, he has been hurt most of the time, but I don't see much of any improvement. Josh Jackson looked legit in the preseason and in the early part of the regular season and than disappeared. Alexander kind of the same story. A legit future pro bowler with talent right out of college and his game seemed to just stay at the same level all season, good...but the same.

You, I and Mondio don't have to have another Joe Whitt debate, I know you both think he is the greatest secondary coach around. Whereas I think he has totally missed the mark on most of the high picks he has been given to try to coach and has struggled to make any of the players he coaches better. Sam Shields is his one big hit, otherwise I would consider him as fanning on most of the other players he has coached in the last 7 or so years.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I like the Pat Fitzgerald of Northwestern rumors. He worked with Murphy and is a fresh face. I don't like retreads. Probably won't happen because he's not an offense guy. In any case, if it's not him, I'd like somebody very much like him.

Fitzgerald might be an intriguing option but NFL teams have combined to only hire a single coach (Chip Kelly) since 1995 without any NFL experience either as a player, coach or scout.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Not at all. Rather than dream about either of the Harbaughs, I have Flores and Tomlin as my top picks currently.

What I find strangely disturbing(and perhaps you should too), is the need for a "Rooney Rule" in 2019. But I don't want to open up that can of worms in this thread.

Sorry, I am not familiar with that rule anyway. No offence was intended.

 

[RepStar15]

I am not going to pretend like I know who is going to be the best fit for this team. There are so many factors involved that play into this kind of decision that the general public literally has no idea about. I will give my wish list for a head coach:

1. He fires Ron Zook (or someone does)
2. He keeps Mike Pettine
3. He is offensively minded and will want to run a high powered, explosive offense
4. He won’t be afraid to put Aaron Rodgers in his place - Tell my why the QB feels the need to wait until the last second to snap the football when his team is trailing in a game?
5. He will utilize a “running back by committee” type scheme. Jamal Williams has his strengths and weaknesses. Aaron Jones has his strengths and weaknesses. Splitting series does not help you capitalize on a player’s strengths and weaknesses. Take note from Bill Bellichick here.

Who is that guy? I literally have no idea, I am not involved in the interview process. But that is who I believe will make this team successful.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I am not going to pretend like I know who is going to be the best fit for this team. There are so many factors involved that play into this kind of decision that the general public literally has no idea about. I will give my wish list for a head coach:

1. He fires Ron Zook (or someone does)
2. He keeps Mike Pettine
3. He is offensively minded and will want to run a high powered, explosive offense
4. He won’t be afraid to put Aaron Rodgers in his place - Tell my why the QB feels the need to wait until the last second to snap the football when his team is trailing in a game?
5. He will utilize a “running back by committee” type scheme. Jamal Williams has his strengths and weaknesses. Aaron Jones has his strengths and weaknesses. Splitting series does not help you capitalize on a player’s strengths and weaknesses. Take note from Bill Bellichick here.

Who is that guy? I literally have no idea, I am not involved in the interview process. But that is who I believe will make this team successful.

3. As opposed to what? A low scoring, conservative offense?
4. "Put Rodgers in his place"? I could not think of a more colossal mistake. You should want a collegial relationship.

 

[rmontro]

4. "Put Rodgers in his place"? I could not think of a more colossal mistake. You should want a collegial relationship.

Yeah, I would rephrase that as "has solid offensive ideas, and is able to get Rodgers to buy into them, and convinces him to see the sense of following the game plan".

 

[GleefulGary]

First, Mondio thought I meant seeing improvement from year one to year 2 players. That wasn't all I was referring too. Second, I don't see anything better of Josh Jones and King....meh....he came to the Packers with ability and yes, he has been hurt most of the time, but I don't see much of any improvement. Josh Jackson looked legit in the preseason and in the early part of the regular season and than disappeared. Alexander kind of the same story. A legit future pro bowler with talent right out of college and his game seemed to just stay at the same level all season, good...but the same.

You, I and Mondio don't have to have another Joe Whitt debate, I know you both think he is the greatest secondary coach around. Whereas I think he has totally missed the mark on most of the high picks he has been given to try to coach and has struggled to make any of the players he coaches better. Sam Shields is his one big hit, otherwise I would consider him as fanning on most of the other players he has coached in the last 7 or so years.

Your extreme hyperbole hurts yourself. I've never said Whitt is the greatest ever. I didn't mention him here on purpose, that was you.

I'll be blunt. If you can watch Kevin King from year 1, and Kevin King from year 2, and conclude that there is hardly any difference in the level of play, then you have no idea what you are watching. Between his footwork, his jam technique, his timing...I just don't know how a person couldn't see that. His rookie year King was terrible. Incredibly raw, flashed talent, but he sucked. This year he was at least average.

Alexander isn't getting worse, he's just a rookie getting matched up with the other teams best and getting tired. Pretty common with rookies.

Other comments you make have merit, but others like the two above are just pure idiocy that are either creating your bias or because of your bias. Look, I'm pretty ambivalent if Whitt comes back or not. Not a big deal either way imo. But I respond to your arguments because I view them as faulty, lazy, and ignorant. I mean, how long can these guys the last couple weeks cover with no pass rush? Does that matter to you? Does the development of Tony Brown matter? Because he's an UDFA playing better than Josh Jackson. You've also blamed Whitt for guys he didn't even coach. Said stuff about Randall being so much better in Cleveland while ignoring that he's playing a different position, and you did the same thing with Micah Hyde. At least try to be a little bit honest with yourself.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't see anybody mentioning Kubiak since Papa San in post #7. According one report, he might consider an OC position but not a HC position:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ary-kubiak-might-return-to-sideline-next-year

Evidently, prior health issues (mini-stroke in 2013, complex migraine in 2016) present risks under the additional stresses of the HC position.

Consider the following elements of his resume:

• 9 year backup to Elway
• West Coast roots and preference for zone blocking
• 1994: San Francisco QB coach - Super Bowl win with Young in his 10th. NFL season
• 1995 - 2005: Denver OC and QB coach - Super Bowl wins in 1997 and 1998 with Elway in his 15th. and 16th. seasons
• 2006 - 2013: Houston HC - He got a lot out of Matt Schaub in 2009 - 2012, his 3rd. - 7th. years as a starter who by 2014 descended into permanent backup status
• 2014: Baltimore OC - Flacco's best season with Baltimore getting back to the playoffs after missing in 2013
• 2015 - 2016: Denver HC - Won Super Bowl with Manning in his final season in 2015; he got more out of Siemian in 2016 than anyone should have expected

A coach with West Coast roots favoring zone blocking concepts would ease the transition. It's what the incumbent players have been working under and would not require retooling the roster for scheme fit. He has a long track record of success with HOF QBs in their later years, including Young and Elway, a couple of accomplished guys who liked to use their legs and extend plays, as well as Manning who came to the project with his own ideas about how things should go.

You'd be hard pressed to find a better QB whisperer which is what is required. This "change Rodgers" or "rein in Rodgers" stuff is absurd.

We could do a lot worse if Kubiak is willing and able and the powers that be are equally willing.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yeah, I would rephrase that as "has solid offensive ideas, and is able to get Rodgers to buy into them, and convinces him to see the sense of following the game plan".

You're getting warmer. A coach that dictates the game plan rather than coming to the project as a partnership will fail. The game plan should be drawn up as an exchange of "what do you think about this?" and "I'm thinking this will work." There's some tape out there somewhere of Belichick and Brady discussing a game plan. If you can find it you'll see what I'm talking about.

There was a sideline shot in the Jets game of Philbin and Rodgers discussing a play call. Philbin says something, Rodgers says something, Rodgers shakes his head and looks away waiting for the next idea. Philbin goes back to the chart to find something else. Rodgers looks back. Camera cuts away. If a play caller cannot handle these kinds of exchanges he will fail.

There is pursuasion to be sure, but it doesn't work without convincing. And if there is no convincing, then there needs to be adapting. This is not Nick Foles or Mitch Trubisky or some game manager that needs to be programmed and are happy for it. This is your playmaker, and if you can't give him what he's comfortable with you will fail.

 

[rmontro]

There was sideline shot in the Jets game of Philbin and Rodgers discussing a play call. Philbin says something, Rodgers says something, Rodgers shakes his head and looks away waiting for the next idea. Philbin goes back to the chart to find something else. Rodgers looks back. Camera cuts away. If a play caller cannot handle these kinds of exchanges he will fail.

That's an example of play calling though, not of coming up with a game plan. I have no objection to Rodgers having input, but the coach should still be the final authority. During the game, on the field, the quarterback is more the general. In any case, I'm sure whoever we pick for coach will know the process for communicating with the quarterback.

 

[HardRightEdge]

That's an example of play calling though, not of coming up with a game plan. I have no objection to Rodgers having input, but the coach should still be the final authority. During the game, on the field, the quarterback is more the general. In any case, I'm sure whoever we pick for coach will know the process for communicating with the quarterback.

Not necessarily, and likely not if they come to the project with your mind set.