Packers vs Eagles Studs n Duds

gopkrs

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Studs: Jacobs, Cooper, Kraft
Duds: Love, pass rush, Nixon, running game, play calling,

Didn't hear anyone say it was Oren Burks who made that tremendous hit on Nixon.
 

rmontro

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That is how Reggie White got his fumble recoveries. He was so strong he would just peel the ball out when nobody was looking.
We could sure use a Reggie White on the team now.


Matt believes the refs botched the fumble recovery call as well. Glad it was mentioned in the article, because I saw it as well. Not only did Nixon recover his own fumble, but Burks could/should have gotten called for a helmet to helmet hit on the play.
Mark Tauscher said that they don't usually call helmet to helmet unless one player is considered defenseless.
 

DarkHelmet

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Matt believes the refs botched the fumble recovery call as well. Glad it was mentioned in the article, because I saw it as well. Not only did Nixon recover his own fumble, but Burks could/should have gotten called for a helmet to helmet hit on the play.

The Eagles led with their helmets on practically every tackle and it was never called. I guess the league doesn't really care about it. To me it seems pretty simple: if you attack another player with the top of your helmet it should be a 15 yard penalty and the second time an ejection. I know some people get a rush from seeing the brutal hits, but I'd rather have fewer injuries and cleaner play, myself.
 

DarkHelmet

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Studs: Jacobs, Cooper, Kraft
Duds: Love, pass rush, Nixon, running game, play calling,

Didn't hear anyone say it was Oren Burks who made that tremendous hit on Nixon.
The announcers mentioned it. Good on Burks for helping his team, but I think it was both an illegal hit, and a recovery by Nixon. It's easy to complain about the refs, but that had a huge, huge impact on the game. Imagine the Packers keeping possession and starting at the 45 after a 15 yard penalty for the Burks hit.
 

DarkHelmet

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We could sure use a Reggie White on the team now.



Mark Tauscher said that they don't usually call helmet to helmet unless one player is considered defenseless.
It's very seldom called. It's a mystery to me why the league doesn't want to try harder to protect the players. The teams have millions invested in these guys. Totally baffling.
 

DarkHelmet

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Dud: Yet another playoff game in the past decade where the Packers D plays a great game, and the O doesn't show up. Sadly, there will probably be more playoff games like this in the coming years, because Love isn't that good of a QB.
Love seems to have the physical tools, but he makes too many mistakes. Not all the INTs are on him, of course, but he also got a way with a few that could/should have been intercepted. Too often he throws a long ball into double or triple coverage when he has an open man 15 yards downfield. Frustrating. The decision-making has to get better next year.
 

David Ciembronowicz

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Love seems to have the physical tools, but he makes too many mistakes. Not all the INTs are on him, of course, but he also got a way with a few that could/should have been intercepted. Too often he throws a long ball into double or triple coverage when he has an open man 15 yards downfield. Frustrating. The decision-making has to get better next year.
Rex Ryan, paraphrasing, "Love has elite tools but is not an elite QB, he does not see the field well, his read ability is inconsistent, he is "reckless with the football" makes one wonder about his confidence level and knowledge. Love has no feel for the coverages, the reason teams play zone is they know he will make a mistake because he does not recognize the coverage. Love has been in the league 5 years, 2 yrs starter, "he will not take this football team where they want to go". Pretty much says it all for a $220M, $160M guaranteed QB that frankly is average at best. This year, 0-6 vs. playoff teams, 8tds- 8ints, 58.6% completion rate. Is he a "go to" QB? Not based on what anyone has seen this year. He is also slow starting, does not seem to be able to get the team "up" after a mistake on the field by D or ST or O. GB has a problem, is it fixable?????
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Too often he throws a long ball into double or triple coverage when he has an open man 15 yards downfield. Frustrating. The decision-making has to get better next year.
That seems to be a bad habit that he picked up from Rodgers, who got it from Favre. Drives me nuts to see long balls just "thrown up into coverage" on 1st or 2nd down. Throw the ball out of bounds and live to see another down. I have less of a problem with those kind of throws on 3rd and long, when everyone else is covered. Might draw a PI and even if it is intercepted, if its a 40+ yard throw, probably ends up being similar to a punt.

Too often this year Jordan/Matt didn't seem to have a solid 3rd/4th down play call. Now maybe they did and Love just couldn't find a guy open. However, in my humble opinion, anything less than 10 yards needed for a first down should include Love rolling out, with the option to run and receivers being PAST the first down yardage, but no more than 1-10 yards past.
 

DarkHelmet

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Rex Ryan, paraphrasing, "Love has elite tools but is not an elite QB, he does not see the field well, his read ability is inconsistent, he is "reckless with the football" makes one wonder about his confidence level and knowledge. Love has no feel for the coverages, the reason teams play zone is they know he will make a mistake because he does not recognize the coverage. Love has been in the league 5 years, 2 yrs starter, "he will not take this football team where they want to go". Pretty much says it all for a $220M, $160M guaranteed QB that frankly is average at best. This year, 0-6 vs. playoff teams, 8tds- 8ints, 58.6% completion rate. Is he a "go to" QB? Not based on what anyone has seen this year. He is also slow starting, does not seem to be able to get the team "up" after a mistake on the field by D or ST or O. GB has a problem, is it fixable?????
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. And we're stuck with him for at least a couple more seasons. He needs intensive coaching.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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It's very seldom called. It's a mystery to me why the league doesn't want to try harder to protect the players. The teams have millions invested in these guys. Totally baffling.
I could be wrong, but I think the hit that knocked Elgton Jenkins out with a should injury was with a Philly Helmet.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. And we're stuck with him for at least a couple more seasons. He needs intensive coaching.

Another player that the Packers could have waited a full season on giving a new deal to. Instead, in their fear to lose Love and their agent threating Love to sit out 2024, they rushed into paying him huge money.

They did the same thing with Bahk. I don't understand why teams feel the need to give players new contracts, when their old contracts still have a year or more left on them.

What would a new deal for Love look like today?
 

coulomb

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"The call on the field stands as a fumble awarded to philly. i wont reverse it because they will literally throw batteries at me from the stands the rest of the game, and probably hunt my family for sport, your on your own green bay"

I guess thats homefield advantage.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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"The call on the field stands as a fumble awarded to philly. i wont reverse it because they will literally throw batteries at me from the stands the rest of the game, and probably hunt my family for sport, your on your own green bay"

I guess thats homefield advantage.

Yeah, the Boo Birds would have rained down on those nasty old refs, had they reversed the call, to the correct call of Nixon recovering his own fumble.

I know that a game isn't typically decided on 1 bad call, especially on the first play of the game. However, that is a call and a TD 3 plays later, that really puts the road team behind the 8 Ball to begin a playoff game.

I will just say this, as a fan, it is frustrating as hell in todays game, when it seems that replays are being used on almost every play (getting looked at up in the booth) and this one, that was supposedly reviewed, isn't overturned.

I have also never liked the "evidence must be substantial to overturn the original call". Well, let me ask those referees this then; "Was their original evidence substantial that Nixon didn't regain control of the ball?" In this situation what the refs need is a white flag. They throw it and it indicates "Help, we have no clue what the correct call should be". That way, there is no influence, either way, on the booth review process.
 

milani

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Damn....didn't want that to be the final game we did a thread for this season...

Positive first,

STUDS
Josh Jacobs - folks I want this man with the G on his helmet for a LONG LONG time. It is a rare combo to have the explosion and the elusiveness AND the brahma bull mentality for contact like he does. He likely cannot keep this up forever, but I'm fine with finding out precisely how long that is.
Edgerrin Cooper - this young man continues to have game where he is delivering.
Evan Williams - don't like Cooper steal all the rookie highlights...cuz there is another one out there.

DUDS
Nixon - I feel bad, because I know and fully admit I harp on him more than most. In truth I just hate the current kick off rules truly, and believe there is NO reason to ever try a return and he never should have. Nixon is a perfect ST level guy who I don't want to see on defense unless needed...he's not terrible but I don't see it, he is constantly thinking of making a big play instead of the right play. That all said he did recover that ball.
OL as a unit...this unit was up against it today. Nolan Smith is a legit WR speed guy off edge in a 240 lb package....and some would say he isn't even their best pressure guy.
MLF/Love - I don't believe Love deserved a lone DUD and felt the same for MLF as well. This offense honestly until late was looking better than Philly's most of the game but could not turn it in to points...and that was even with turnovers happening (which watched the Baun INT again...Kraft doesn't fall and allow Baun to abandon his coverage assignment that isn't a freebie INT, it may not have been a completion but no one expected Baun to be there especially Love and I see why now).
Yes, the area we needed to play at a high level was the O line. And we got pretty much drubbed. Rare when the D line out performs the O line. MLF said the first half was our worst 30 minutes of the season but only down 10. Bottom line is that to beat the league elites outside of a mid-season upset you have to become better. We are not there yet.
 

milani

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"The call on the field stands as a fumble awarded to philly. i wont reverse it because they will literally throw batteries at me from the stands the rest of the game, and probably hunt my family for sport, your on your own green bay"

I guess thats homefield advantage.
I agree. That could easily have been overturned.
 

Magooch

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I have also never liked the "evidence must be substantial to overturn the original call". Well, let me ask those referees this then; "Was their original evidence substantial that Nixon didn't regain control of the ball?" In this situation what the refs need is a white flag. They throw it and it indicates "Help, we have no clue what the correct call should be". That way, there is no influence, either way, on the booth review process.
I’ve never thought of it like this, but I actually really like this “white flag” (or whatever color you please) idea. Who decided that there HAS to be a definitive “on the field” call in the first place? Especially in these scrum type cases, or even in cases of down and distance, breaking the plane of goal line, in or out of bounds, etc…just simply don’t make any call in the first place. Wave for time and say “we’re consulting replay assist” before calling anything.
 

milani

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I’ve never thought of it like this, but I actually really like this “white flag” (or whatever color you please) idea. Who decided that there HAS to be a definitive “on the field” call in the first place? Especially in these scrum type cases, or even in cases of down and distance, breaking the plane of goal line, in or out of bounds, etc…just simply don’t make any call in the first place. Wave for time and say “we’re consulting replay assist” before calling anything.
Yes. And in many cases the refs initially go with the turnover so they can play Pontius Pilate and wash their hands of it. By letting the booth review it they feel no guilt. Had they ruled GB ball on the field the Eagles would have to challenge and then you get a hostile crowd on the first play of the game.
 

GreenNGold_81

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How so, exactly? I mean, coverage has been good. Kicking has been good. What else can he control? Returns have sucked but the NFL has been hell-bent on ruining kickoff returns for a long time now. Speaking of which the new kickoff experiment has been an abject failure. They need to scrap it.
Missed kicks, fumbles, our returns haven't been great. I'm happy if KR/PR simply catches the ball without a drop or bobble. Penalties. There hasn't been much upside. He can't develop a kicker. McManus was a gift to us and he still had shaky moments. Bisaccia rode a feel-good moment for the Raiders to a multi-year contract in GB and is average at best.
 

Magooch

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Last season we finished 29th in Gosselin's annual special teams rankings. Not sure where we will finish this year, but I can't imagine it'll be much better.

24th in punt return yards
14th in kick return yards
19th in punt yards allowed/against
26th in net punting yards/27th in net yards per punt
30th in kick return yards allowed

When we signed Bisaccia, we made him the highest-paid ST coach in the league. Maybe that has changed since then (I haven't heard of any ST coach getting a richer contract in the time since then, but could've missed it), but IMO it's pretty clear we're not getting a great return on that investment (and to top it off, we promoted him to assistant head coach in 2023)
 

BrokenArrow

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Missed kicks, fumbles, our returns haven't been great.

How are fumbles and missed kicks by incompetent kickers his fault? That's a personnel issue. Returns in general haven't been great anywhere. This kickoff crap needs to go away next year. The missed kicks were addressed.

I'm happy if KR/PR simply catches the ball without a drop or bobble. Penalties. There hasn't been much upside. He can't develop a kicker.

As they say, kickers are born - not made.
 

tynimiller

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Last season we finished 29th in Gosselin's annual special teams rankings. Not sure where we will finish this year, but I can't imagine it'll be much better.

24th in punt return yards
14th in kick return yards
19th in punt yards allowed/against
26th in net punting yards/27th in net yards per punt
30th in kick return yards allowed

When we signed Bisaccia, we made him the highest-paid ST coach in the league. Maybe that has changed since then (I haven't heard of any ST coach getting a richer contract in the time since then, but could've missed it), but IMO it's pretty clear we're not getting a great return on that investment (and to top it off, we promoted him to assistant head coach in 2023)

I do believe Rich needs reassigned or fired and a new ST coordinator brought in 100%
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Last season we finished 29th in Gosselin's annual special teams rankings. Not sure where we will finish this year, but I can't imagine it'll be much better.

24th in punt return yards
14th in kick return yards
19th in punt yards allowed/against
26th in net punting yards/27th in net yards per punt
30th in kick return yards allowed

When we signed Bisaccia, we made him the highest-paid ST coach in the league. Maybe that has changed since then (I haven't heard of any ST coach getting a richer contract in the time since then, but could've missed it), but IMO it's pretty clear we're not getting a great return on that investment (and to top it off, we promoted him to assistant head coach in 2023)

I do believe Rich needs reassigned or fired and a new ST coordinator brought in 100%

I have to agree that something needs to change on Special Teams. Except for McManus, they were anything but "Special", all season.

I noticed Rich B. was standing near MLF on the sidelines a lot this season. Was MLF leaning on him to help with decisions? Did Rich suddenly get distracted from his main task, that of coaching Special Teams?

Lot's of fans seem to be looking at "what needs to be done player personnel wise." I honestly think there needs to be a shake-up with some of the coaching.
 

gopkrs

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I have to agree that something needs to change on Special Teams. Except for McManus, they were anything but "Special", all season.

I noticed Rich B. was standing near MLF on the sidelines a lot this season. Was MLF leaning on him to help with decisions? Did Rich suddenly get distracted from his main task, that of coaching Special Teams?

Lot's of fans seem to be looking at "what needs to be done player personnel wise." I honestly think there needs to be a shake-up with some of the coaching.
Is there DE coach? Seems like all the DEs only know the bull rush.
 
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