Packers, Daniels not close to new deal

[GreenBaySlacker]

I often wonder how you arrive at your conclusions

because the article said daniels wants 10 and packers are looking at 5-6. right? you all act like he has already become the man on our line. bullcrap. i personally think raji, guion and pennell could all replace him with very little drop off.

 

[adambr2]

and they werent going to pay cobb until he stepped up big time in the playoffs!!! cobb earned it! danoels hasnt. i dont care what profootballweekly says.

So you actually believe that after 4 years with the team, the Packers gave Cobb 40 million dollars solely based on 15 catches for 178 yards and 1 TD in January of the postseason last season, otherwise they would have let him walk.

Just...wow.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

you people preach about the real job of a 3-4 de. you watch pennell. he gets the push every play. he is disriptive, and makes plays when the ball gets near him. thats what im basing it on. you put words in my mouth with this sack argument...daniels 5 sacks dont impress me enough. thats besides the point that i believe guion and pennell are capable of doing what daniels does.

Pennel has been a pleasant surprise during the preseason. It's ludicrous to think he's capable of doing what Daniels has done over the past two seasons because of it though.

because the article said daniels wants 10 and packers are looking at 5-6. right? you all act like he has already become the man on our line. bullcrap. i personally think raji, guion and pennell could all replace him with very little drop off.

Once again, he's by far the best on the defensive line and I guarantee the Packers front office wants to sign him to a long term deal. The numbers that are being reported as of now don't mean anythingnonce the March deadline looms around the corner. The Packers don't have a ton of impact players on the DL and letting Daniels walk in free agency would be a terrible idea.

 

[Half Empty]

and they werent going to pay cobb until he stepped up big time in the playoffs!!! cobb earned it! danoels hasnt. i dont care what profootballweekly says.

Nor, apparently, anyone in this forum. Perhaps this might go a little smoother if you'd let us know whose opinion, other than yours, counts.

 

[RRyder]

you people preach about the real job of a 3-4 de. you watch pennell. he gets the push every play. he is disriptive, and makes plays when the ball gets near him. thats what im basing it on. you put words in my mouth with this sack argument...daniels 5 sacks dont impress me enough. thats besides the point that i believe guion and pennell are capable of doing what daniels does.

If Pennell is really getting push on every play, is so distruptive and is always making a play around the ball why isn't he starting opposite of Daniels in the opener?

I like Pennell and he has been a pleasant suprise and Guion turned out to be a solid pickup but the thinking that if Daniels leaves they'd see very little drop off is just plain foolish. Daniels is one of the BEST 3/4 DEs in the league. Pennell at his peak we're "hoping" can be a solid starter which is also what Guion is. Daniels is just in a different tier then them.

And you say I put words in your mouth by assuming you don't think he's that good in large part due to his sack total and then in the very next sentence say "His 5 sacks don't impress me enough." So I would like to thank you for helping confirm my assumption.

And the Cobb comparison to last year is a little off. Daniels is actually more deserving of a big deal right now the Cobb was at this time last year. Cobb was a really good player that just needed to put it together in a contract year cause he hadn't fully at that point. Daniels actually has allready played at a top flight level and proven to be one of the top players at his position.

I'm not advocating just give him 10 mill and 30 million guaranteed to call it a day. This is a negotiations. You bring up how the Packers came in low. How exactly do you think negotiations work?

 

[TJV]

you put words in my mouth with this sack argument...daniels 5 sacks dont impress me enough.

No one is putting words in your mouth: In post #23 of the now closed “Sign Mike Daniels” thread you posted, “he has been good. not really good, imo. 6 sacks.... i want 12 from ends and 6 from nose.”

BTW, I have been very encouraged by Pennel's progress and while he has received limited snaps in the three preseason games this year, do you know how many sacks he's recorded?

lets not forget the ACTUAL packers brass agrees with me!!!

So what will you post if the Packers sign him to a contract averaging somewhere between his demand and the Packers offer? Will you be 'laughing your rear off' as you told us you would when the Packers took a RB at pick #30 of the most recent draft?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

you guys figuring it out yet? raji looks like the best dlineman out there right now. and if guion comes back strong... like i said before, i thought guion was a more dominant force than danoels last season... daniels might be 3rd best dlineman by season end...
raji and guion are free agents after this season...side thought, id rather keep raji and guion, than overpay for daniels, causing a mutiny.

 

[RRyder]

you guys figuring it out yet? raji looks like the best dlineman out there right now. and if guion comes back strong... like i said before, i thought guion was a more dominant force than danoels last season... daniels might be 3rd best dlineman by season end...
raji and guion are free agents after this season...side thought, id rather keep raji and guion, than overpay for daniels, causing a mutiny.

Raji looked great last night but once again your are over inflating Guion. He is not better then Daniels and it's not even close

 

[adambr2]

i thought guion was a more dominant force than danoels last season...

And you were wrong when you said it before and still wrong about it now. It's a general consensus among every NFL analyst and statistician and by pretty much every statistical measure Daniels is a top 5 3-4 DE, and Guion isn't close to that. You are just really wrong and it's obvious to anyone other than you.

Also, I like how you are playing the 'I told you so' game with Raji, when pretty much everyone here has been in agreement that Raji had the talent to have a good year if he actually put the time and effort in.

If you want to break the bank for Raji after two good games in a contract year, and trust him to stay motivated for the entirety of it, by all means we'll see how it works out, but it's (fortunately) not your decision to make. Let's see what the rest of the season brings and I trust that the team will make the right decision in the best long-term interests of the team.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

i thought guion was a more dominant force than danoels last season... daniels might be 3rd best dlineman by season end...

I'm not going to just claim you're wrong on this statement, I would like to know how you arrived at that conclusion. Perhaps you have a compelling argument with well-founded reasoning that might convince me to come over to your point of view.

To make this more of a discussion and less of a shouting match, I'll lay out my reasoning for Daniels being better than Guion (though I should mention that Guion was the second best dlineman on the team last season so he's pretty good).

Daniels had two more sacks than Guion, more than triple the number of QB hits, three times the number of QB hurries, four more tackles and one more tackle for loss. PFF credited Daniels with 31 "stops" and Guion with 18; and before someone comes spouting some nonsense about what a "stop" is, google it, PFF explains it very clearly....screw it, just to head this off here's PFF's explanation of a stop:

It’s when an offense fails to get:

40 percent of the required yards for another first down on first down
60 percent of the required yards for a first down on second down
A first down on third or fourth down
​

So, I've laid out very clearly why I believe that Daniels is a better player. Please let me know the objective, identifiable reasons that you believe Guion is better.

As for Raji being in the discussion...he's been very good against two terrible olines but I'm not willing to say that two games this year outweigh the last four seasons of non-production or general awfulness (depending on health, and the best outcomes for Raji have actually been when he missed time).

 

[HardRightEdge]

It looks like Daniels is using Cory Liuget's recent extension as his benchmark:

http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-end

As discussed at some length in the offseason, the number and quality of players entering free agency after 2016 makes meeting Daniels' demands less than a slam dunk. Since evidently he is not willing to take a home town discount, I would expect to see his contract revisited in the offseason.

A lot can happen in the interim, be it with Daniels or with the other guys on the roster, in terms of performance and injuries. As more time passes and the 2016 revenue numbers start coming in, the front off will have more clarity as to where the salary cap will be for 2016 and 2017, and that would certainly factor into the equation.

Even so, you can't count on cap bumps as a windfall, as salary inflation for need/core/star players escalate in pace. Premier player deals keep leaf frogging the comparables from just a year or two prior. Or look no further than the Williams got as an ordinary aging starter or the unproven starter deal that House landed.

 

[RRyder]

Screw it. Give Daniels the 9-10 per he's asking for. Otherwise with how he's playing he's going to get alot more.

That said if I were him at this point I'm very interested in the idea of betting on myself to stay healthy and then testing Free Agency

 

[adambr2]

Unfortunately I think he may stay away from a long term deal before free agency now at which point his price tag may very well exceed 10M.

If he's open to an extension at 9-10M a year right now he's very much worth it.

 

[El Guapo]

I'm not concerned about this. It was a game of chicken that every agent plays with every GM. I don't think that he warranted 9-10 before the season, but through the first five games he is proving otherwise. However, that $9-$10M demand has sailed until the end of the season unless he truly cares about being a long-time Green Bay player. His current play is probably warranting more in the FA market.

 

[RRyder]

I'm not concerned about this. It was a game of chicken that every agent plays with every GM. I don't think that he warranted 9-10 before the season, but through the first five games he is proving otherwise. However, that $9-$10M demand has sailed until the end of the season unless he truly cares about being a long-time Green Bay player. His current play is probably warranting more in the FA market.

I agree. Was simply saying that as of right now it looks like TT would have been better served if he blinked in that game of chicken

 

[gopkrs]

He sure is playing well. Great motor. But I have to admit that I just want him to keep it up this year. The Super Bowl is on my mind and what a feather in the cap of all Packer fans if it can be accomplished. Truly a TEAM effort.

 

[El Guapo]

I agree. Was simply saying that as of right now it looks like TT would have been better served if he blinked in that game of chicken

True in the sense of hindsight being 20-20. Who knows, had he paid him before the season one could reasonably ask the question, "Would we still be getting this high level of production?" Maybe TT being stingy is part of what gets us (hopefully) another trophy.

 

[TJV]

The pressgazette site has a column titled, “Statistical breakdown: Daniels’ dominance”.

Packers defensive end Mike Daniels is in his contract year, and playing at a level that could earn him a rich new deal either from Green Bay or in free agency. Through five games, Daniels has 26 tackles (17 solo), 2½ sacks and six quarterback hits.

It lists Daniels’ six highest rated games by PFF, including two this season: According to PFF against the Chiefs he had 2 sacks, 4 QB hurries, 2 stops. One of the sacks was a strip sack. He had 2 QB hits, 1 hurry and 5 stops against the Rams. This is part of what they had to say about the Rams game:

Daniels showcased both brute strength and great vision, stopping blockers dead in their tracks at the point of attack, patiently reading and then shedding to make the play.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...ical-breakdown-packers-mike-daniels/73981356/

Daniels was the guest on the most recent Mike McCarthy show. Larry McCarren did a chalk talk session with Daniels and at the end of it, McCarren told Daniels how much he respects the way he plays. I've watched and listened to McCarren since he arrived in Green Bay and that's not the kind of compliment he ordinarily throws out. BTW, IMO the best part of both the Mike McCarthy show and Packers Live (which McCarren hosts) are the chalk talk segments in which he breaks down plays with a player.

 

[The program 61]

look at how suh is doing hope he learns stay home earn some money and win games best 3 things in life.

 

[Einstein McFly]

They should pay him the ten mil he wants. He's beating the hell out of his guy every week. He's not a nose, but he's really good at end. He's an A- pass rusher and a solid B against the run. Pennel and Guion are bigger and better against double teams, but they're not as consistent and have nothing close to Daniels' pass rush. Pay him.

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[AmishMafia]

Screw it. Give Daniels the 9-10 per he's asking for. Otherwise with how he's playing he's going to get alot more.

That said if I were him at this point I'm very interested in the idea of betting on myself to stay healthy and then testing Free Agency

We are probably going to have to save our money and let Daniels go. Because if he is worth $10M, then Guion will cost us at least $15M per year.

Personally, I dont care if Guion is better. We should sign Daniels at $10m as he provides some leadership and attitude. Plus, he is still getting better.

 

[longtimefan]

because the article said daniels wants 10 and packers are looking at 5-6. right? you all act like he has already become the man on our line. bullcrap. i personally think raji, guion and pennell could all replace him with very little drop off.

Say bj or guion or pennel replace Daniels

Who then replaces THAT player??

Your way we are still out a big guy

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

my point is if we have to choose between paying raji,pennel, and guion. or paying daniels... we have to take the group. i hope ted can figure a way to keep them all.

 

[PikeBadger]

Say bj or guion or pennel replace Daniels

Who then replaces THAT player??

Your way we are still out a big guy

Well, there is the 2016 draft and we are going to have 9 picks. It is unlikely that all 4 will be signed imo.

 

[RRyder]

my point is if we have to choose between paying raji,pennel, and guion. or paying daniels... we have to take the group. i hope ted can figure a way to keep them all.

Raji is gone after this season. Guion has a good chance of returning regardless but the fact you think Pennel can replace Daniels in any way is disturbing