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Do you honestly think McCarthy had nothing to do with Rodgers' development???
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Do you honestly think McCarthy had nothing to do with Rodgers' development???
Do you honestly think McCarthy had nothing to do with Rodgers' development???
One of the things MM is most noted for is developing QB's.
NelsonsLongCatch
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Do you honestly think McCarthy had nothing to do with Rodgers' development???
I didn't say he didn't help with Rodgers' development. He's a wonderful quarterback coach. I'm saying he's a bad in-game coach after the first quarter. Once he gets past his "scripted plays", he ***** himself. The play-calling gets uglier as the game progresses.
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You habe to take McCarthy developing Rodgers into the consideration though. I agree that he has some issues with in-game management and I wouldn't mind having an OC actually calling the plays.
Overall MM is an excellent coach though.
NelsonsLongCatch
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I would love to see MM give up some of his play-calling responsibilities. I wouldn't rate him as an "excellent" coach, but there is much worse (and better) out there. I hate to continually watch him go into a conservative shell at the end of games (taking the ball out of Rodgers' hands).
TJV
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No stat is a perfect reflection of the reality of NFL games but here’s a list of where the Packers finished in scoring offense since McCarthy took over the play-calling:
2006: 22nd
2007: 4th
2008: 5th
2009: 3rd
2010: 10th
2011: 1st
2012: 5th
2013: Tied for 8th (with Rodgers missing about ½ of the regular season)
2014: 1st
As HC/play-caller his team has finished in the top ten in eight consecutive seasons, only his first season is an exception. The overall average is finishing between 6th and 7th in the league. After his rookie season, the average finish is between 4th and 5th in the league.
So either the post above is a gross exaggeration or we can look forward to the stats that reflect the assertion made. In the absence of those stats IMO someone other than McCarthy **** himself. BTW, Rodgers said before Super Bowl XLV that the Packers don’t script the first 15 plays of the game anymore.
I don't think I'll give MM the "great coach" mantle until his teams consistently outplay the better defenses in the league. I typically see his offenses build their stats vs the lesser teams. Until then, I don't think he is much more than good to very good.
This season was a good example of your points, Papa. Twice vs the Seahawks, the Lions and Bills. The offense looked liked anything but a juggernaught.
Why? If they keep Bulaga and Barclay they have 5 really good starters followed by 2 quality backups who are both versatile enough to play anywhere on the line.
Lane Taylor is very replaceable but if we're quibbling about the 8th guy on your O line, your depth is very solid.
If they want to draft a late round project I'm fine with that but if they keep their FAs they are already in much better shape there than they were going into this season even if they draft no offensive linemen.
Won't find too many teams with better depth, they've come a long ways since the days of Newhouse starting.
NelsonsLongCatch
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Two words for the Packers' ranking in scoring offense: AARON RODGERS
OldSchool101
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I think we're fine.
So we choked this year.. Bottom line is we have had a chance at playoffs 6 consecutive years, we won a Championship and arguably should've been a SB contender a second time this year
There's a lot of overreaction to losses, I think it's much harder to win a SB than many think. Just take a look at the probability factors of the playoff caliber teams before the matches.
I appreciate high expectations as much as the next fan, but being a fan means also means supporting what got you in the position for a shot in the first place (within reason)
I also think we have a legit shot at another SB next year with very modest modifications to this team
Victory is sweeter when patience is employed.
So we choked this year.. Bottom line is we have had a chance at playoffs 6 consecutive years, we won a Championship and arguably should've been a SB contender a second time this year
There's a lot of overreaction to losses, I think it's much harder to win a SB than many think. Just take a look at the probability factors of the playoff caliber teams before the matches.
I appreciate high expectations as much as the next fan, but being a fan means also means supporting what got you in the position for a shot in the first place (within reason)
I also think we have a legit shot at another SB next year with very modest modifications to this team
Victory is sweeter when patience is employed.
Why are you leaving out Tretter? While unproven he's heading into his 3rd year and they still have high expectations for him. Barclay has already proven to be a good backup and I don't know why he's going to be limited. He tore his ACL in early August, not December. He's well within the timeline to recover by training camp. Even if Taylor is a fringe player, that's 8 guys. How many O-linemen do you want to keep?
There are a lot of positions that you can't have enough of. Can't have enough good corners. Can't have enough D-linemen. Can't have enough receivers and can't have enough LB's in a 3-4. Unfortunately the league mandates that 53 is indeed enough total guys. So if you want to carry extra big men you'll have to sacrifice somewhere else.
I have no problem if they see a real value steal at tackle in the 4th round where they think they can get 1st or 2nd round value. Sure, go for it if you feel the value is there. But I don't know why we're fabricating some big depth need on the O-line. We have good depth. Barclay and Tretter could probably compete for starting spots on other teams. Of course if you can steal a really nice prospect somewhere in the draft it's not going to hurt you, but if we're talking strictly immediate draft need I wouldn't put O-line anywhere near the top. Teams aren't 10 players deep with starting quality offensive linemen. If Barclay and Tretter are back to full health and we keep our guys, we're already deep.
Shawnsta3
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I always enjoy the struggle between McCarthy haters who can't decide whether McCarthy is "obviously too conservative", or "grossly too agressive".
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Amazing production. During that time, Bulaga is the only guy on that unit drafted in the first round.
TJV
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Look at the finish in 2013: Top 10 with Rodgers out for about one-half of the season. How do you explain that? And BTW, I guess we can assume you're backing off of your idiotic "...he's a bad in-game coach after the first quarter. Once he gets past his "scripted plays", he ***** himself." That sh!tty smell you're smelling isn't McCarthy, it's you.
Half Empty
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If you're going to look at the finish to that season, and you can make of it what you will in terms of points scored, W/L record, opposition, or whatever supports your position, but without AR:
Bears, L, 20-27
Eagles, L, 13-27
Giants, L, 13-27
Vikes, T, 26-26
Lions, L, 10-40
Falcons, W, 22-21
Cowboys, W, 37-36
Steelers, L, 31-38
NelsonsLongCatch
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The Packers offense was so good that they went 2-5-1 without Rodgers. NOTHING LIKE IGNORING IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE RECORDS TO PROVE YOUR POINT. Here's a link to how effective the Packers offense was without Rodgers in 2013: http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/3510/how-the-packers-offense-differs-now
I'm not backing off. He ***** himself after the first quarter. He's a bad in-game coach. Rodgers covers his short-comings game after game after game.
Let me ask you a question: Packers have the ball on the Patriots six yard line with six seconds left in the first half. Does MM take a shot into the end zone or kick the field goal?
TJV
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You're not backing off but you presented absolutely no evidence to support what you're alleging. Show us stats of first quarter vs. the rest of the game.
Thompson and McCarthy (and perhaps to some extent their staffs) share the blame for the cluster f#ck that was the Packers backup QB situation in 2013. In spite of that, they finished tied for 8th in scoring according to the NFL. That is what is known as a fact. Now it's your turn: Back up your **** with some facts.
BTW, did you know McCarthy no longer scripts the first 15 plays of the game?
NelsonsLongCatch
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I did "back my **** up". MM went an impressive 2-5-1 without Rodgers. During that stretch they put up 13 points against the Eagles and Giants and 10 against the Lions. That's impressive coaching!
BTW, you never answered my questioned. Would MM have taken a shot at the end zone or just settled for 3 like usual?
thisisnate
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i would certainly like to see this team have a proper OC, but by no means do i think mike is a bad coach
Carl
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Stats to back up the statement he sucks after the first quarter would be helpful. You showed a record without Rodgers, but in no way related that to the first quarter compared to the rest of the game.
Also, any examples of the exact same situation the Packers had short time and kicked a FG instead of taking a shot? Otherwise, you're just using a hypothetical situation to back up a point.
NelsonsLongCatch
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Of course I don't have a specific example of the same situation. It would be impossible to have an exact situation lying around. I am using a hypothetical.
Carl
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This notion MM is always conservative is out of control and is simply based on one half of one game.
They passed to end the game just ONE week before. Also did the same with leads vs. NE, New York, Minnesota, and Atlanta. They went for on 4th and goal vs. Tampa and vs Chicago. They piled on first half leads in four blowout wins this season. He's also been known to call long passes on 3rd down (see a couple TDs vs. the Bears, and Adams long pass vs. the Pats) try random onside kicks, kick long field goals instead of punting, and even accept 3rd down defensive penalties that gives the other offense another try but backs them up.
Yeah, he was conservative vs. Seattle, but in no way does it mean he is conservative all the time. (And as Seattle just showed being aggressive doesn't guarantee a win anyway like posters on here act like.)
If you or any poster can show that MM is consistently conservative, that would be great.
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