Packer Draft Position on the Rise.....

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree with both your views. Last week, with only a slim chance of still getting in the playoffs, I was firmly on the top 10 draft pick train and hoping that we would play young and backup players. Now, with a 35% chance of getting in the playoffs by winning out according to the NY times playoff calculator, I think we still should give it our all. At least for the Bears game. The Jets and Lions games are doable, and we will basically know if we are in or out come Sunday when we play the supposedly "New Kings of the North." Let's try to win out against them, making us their boogie team for next year regardless. If we lose, then we will still have 2 games to create a better chance at a higher draft pick in May.

I think you missed a decimal point? 35% chance the Packers make the playoffs or 3.5%?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/nfl-playoff-picture.html

Edit: Reread your post and think you meant they have a 35% chance IF the Packers win out, but what are the odds they win out if the odds of them making the playoffs is only 4%?

 

[sschind]

I didn't say it was a Packer thing, I said I think it was a bigger reason than picking later. Anyway, wins aren't meaningless. If we win, it means a lot of young players are getting better. It means guys aren't playing so carelessly. it means guys are playing with energy. Some things we've been missing. I'd these guys play hard and in the process of doing that win, and carry that success with them to the start of the offseason than have them wallow around because we didn't make the playoffs and think that getting better starts "next year". it doesn't. it starts now.

Simply getting MVS and EQ on the same page with Rodgers is reason enough to get as many first downs and opportunities for those guys to get better NOW. it only makes us better next season. and this team, if they do those things, is good enough to beat everyone on their remaining schedule. A little extra hope and confidence in young players can multiply over the offseason and still leave them with a taste in their mouths for more because we did just fall short of the playoffs.

Imo that is a far better place to impove from, than going into games knowing you're not putting it out there to win. Skipping opportunities to get better can become a habit. Losing hope and confidence can also multiply itself in the offseason. If this team plays hard and to ability, they'll win a few more. i'll take it.

I really like this Mondio, very well said. Those stubborn draft pick people (you know who you are ) are focused on the "meaningless" wins but not necessarily on what needed to happen to get those wins. The way this team has played this season what needs to happen for them to win out is for them to play better, much better. If they can do that they will gain much more IMO than and extra few spots in the draft would get them. If they play like crap, like they have most of the season and still luck into 2 or 3 more wins then I might agree that they are meaningless.

Now Poker, I know you are not hoping they lose, or maybe you are and that's fine. I certainly know you are not saying they should play to lose (heck if they wanted that they would have kept McCarthy) In your mind its the best way for them to improve next season and who's to say you are wrong. I think draft picks are a crap shoot and that's why I'd rather have the wins but I do agree that your odds of hitting go up the higher you pick. Because of that I am not going to be totally bummed if they do lose out. I'll get over it and when they are picking in the top 5-6 next year I'll be enjoying it and I won't be thinking of the 3 loses it took to get there. I'll be thinking of that DROY that we will be drafting.

Maybe the best thing to hope for is for them to have an epiphany of sorts and all of a sudden start getting it but lose the rest of the games because the refs make some poor calls.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I really like this Mondio, very well said. Those stubborn draft pick people (you know who you are ) are focused on the "meaningless" wins but not necessarily on what needed to happen to get those wins. The way this team has played this season what needs to happen for them to win out is for them to play better, much better. If they can do that they will gain much more IMO than and extra few spots in the draft would get them. If they play like crap, like they have most of the season and still luck into 2 or 3 more wins then I might agree that they are meaningless.

Now Poker, I know you are not hoping they lose, or maybe you are and that's fine. I certainly know you are not saying they should play to lose (heck if they wanted that they would have kept McCarthy) In your mind its the best way for them to improve next season and who's to say you are wrong. I think draft picks are a crap shoot and that's why I'd rather have the wins but I do agree that your odds of hitting go up the higher you pick. Because of that I am not going to be totally bummed if they do lose out. I'll get over it and when they are picking in the top 5-6 next year I'll be enjoying it and I won't be thinking of the 3 loses it took to get there. I'll be thinking of that DROY that we will be drafting.

Maybe the best thing to hope for is for them to have an epiphany of sorts and all of a sudden start getting it but lose the rest of the games because the refs make some poor calls.

Mondio, who gets to wipe the lipstick off their *** first?

I actually think you summed it up nicely Brother Scchind, now stand up and wipe those knees off you got your pants dirty!

 

[Mondio]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the Saints and Redskins and Ravens losing every single one of their games remaining to improve our draft positions. But that's different

 

[Un4GivN]

Speaking of draft, McShay's first mock is out...

He has the Packers with

GB: Montez Sweat, DE, Mississippi St
GB (from NO): A.J. Brown, WR, Ole Miss

 

[Half Empty]

Too many options for playing with the names, so I'll pass. Bet there's some other posts coming up, though.

 

[PikeBadger]

Last year I was hoping for an increase in overall team speed which I feel was mostly achieved with the likes of Alexander, Burks, Scantling and Jackson.

This year I’d like to see an OL, DL, S and TE in the first 6 picks through round 4.

Edit: if Jackson gets moved to S, I’d go after a fast slot/return guy.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This year I’d like to see an OL, DL, S and TE in the first 6 picks through round 4.

The Packers desperately need to draft an edge rusher early next year.

 

[gatorpack]

#11 heading into week 16

 

[rodell330]

The fact that Mcshay doesn’t have them taking an edge rusher shows he just blows smoke and really doesn’t understand the Packers needs. They need a DE but not nearly as bad as OLB and Safety.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

At "Best" the Packers can only move up to as high as the #3 pick in every round of the draft. Was "nice" to beat the Falcons last week, but had we lost that game, we would be sitting at pick #6, only 1/2 game out of that 3rd pick behind the Jets, 49'ers, and Jags.

1. Cardinals (3-11): (Rams, @ Seahawks)
2. Raiders (3-11): (Broncos, @Chiefs)
3. Jets (4-10): (Packers, @Patriots)
   
4. 49'ers (4-10): ( Bears, @Rams)
   
5. Jaguars (4-10): (@Phins, @Texans)
   
6. Falcons (5-9): (@Panthers, @Bills)
   
7. Lions (5-9): (Vikes, @Pack)
   
8. Giants (5-9): (@Colts, Cowboys)
   
9. Buccaneers (5-9): (@Cowboys, Falcons)
10. Bills (5-9): (@Pats, Phins)
11. Packers (5-8-1): (@Jets, Lions)
12. Broncos (6-8): (@Raiders, Chargers)
    
13. Bengals (6-8): (@Browns, @ Steelers)
14. Browns (6-7-1): (Bengals, @Ravens)
15. Panthers (7-7): (Falcons, @ Saints)
16. Eagles (7-7): (Texans, @Skins)
17. Dolphins (7-7): (Jaguars, @Bills)
18. Washington(7-7): (@Titans, Eagles)

 

[PackAttack12]

Another draft of Gutekunst being able to draft reasonably early-mid round could really kick this thing into the right direction. Add in the potential for a significant amount of cap space, find the right head coach/offensive coordinator and we’re sitting pretty.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If I did my math correct, the Packers will pick no worse than at #18. I'm not for intentionally losing games, but I wouldn't mind seeing a lot of the young guys getting some much needed work in the next 2 games and if that means moving closer to that #3 slot in the draft, so be it. Definitely a big difference between pick #3 and pick #18 in each of the first several rounds.

 

[shockerx]

Another draft of Gutekunst being able to draft reasonably early-mid round could really kick this thing into the right direction. Add in the potential for a significant amount of cap space, find the right head coach/offensive coordinator and we’re sitting pretty.

yep, first tell Gute to stay away from josh jackson oren burks 2.0.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

yep, first tell Gute to stay away from josh jackson oren burks 2.0.

I think it is too early to give up on either player. However, I firmly believe that we need better positional coaches. Jackson's attempt to tackle someone today, without even wrapping his arms around him, has been way too common of a sighting with our secondary. It is time to bring coaches in who teach basic fundamentals as well as getting improvement out of players who were drafted high.

 

[GleefulGary]

The fact that Mcshay doesn’t have them taking an edge rusher shows he just blows smoke and really doesn’t understand the Packers needs. They need a DE but not nearly as bad as OLB and Safety.

A DE is an Edge is a DE.

I swear, somebody needs to sticky that.

 

[GleefulGary]

I think it is too early to give up on either player. However, I firmly believe that we need better positional coaches. Jackson's attempt to tackle someone today, without even wrapping his arms around him, has been way too common of a sighting with our secondary. It is time to bring coaches in who teach basic fundamentals as well as getting improvement out of players who were drafted high.

It's hard to practice tackling when you can't wear pads.

 

[OldSchool101]

It’s extremely costly to trade up to #1 (likely where Bosa goes) and there’s a marginal chance we’d get that deal done to begin with. We’re not the only team desperately needing an Edge rusher.
Clelin Ferrell would be another solid option without mortgaging our future. He could very well be had outside #5 as a fantastic addition and that deal would leave our Saints pick intact. He’s also a stellar run stuffer and it would allow us to let Clay walk and free up considerable cap space. Which IMO should be used to double down at OLB a second time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

A DE is an Edge is a DE.

I swear, somebody needs to sticky that.

In a 3-4 base defense a defensive end is not an edge rusher.

 

[thisisnate]

A DE is an Edge is a DE

False

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Long list of team needs this year: Playmakers on offense, depth on offensive line, pass-rushers and defensive line help. This is a classic best-player available scenario.

Gonna need a lot of immediate-impact help......

 

[Mondio]

In a 3-4 base defense a defensive end is not an edge rusher.

False

I'm pretty sure his comment was made in response to someone saying that McShay didn't have us taking an "edge" guy in the draft, therefore he's an idiot. The guy he had mocked to us, was listed as a DE, and he most certainly is and Edge guy. Or at least likely. He's certainly not a base 3-4 DE.

it seems to be a thing on here where most people see DE in college and think it means the guy shouldn't play standing up in the NFL when there are so many guys that make the transition from college hand on the ground DE to NFL "EDGE" i can't even believe it needs to be mentioned that it's possible.

anyway, does it matter what we call them? Base defense is hardly ever used. Linebackers move up on the line, off the line, DE's DT's NT's move all along the line, play with 3 big guys, 4 big guys, 2 big guys, a single big guy, safeties are playing sometimes LB'er sometimes safety, sometimes CB. I don't think the position marker is nearly as important as how they'll function for a team and Sweat is obviously and "edge" rusher, not a big bodied block eater traditional DE in a base 3-4.

 

[Lawdog]

I think it is too early to give up on either player. However, I firmly believe that we need better positional coaches. Jackson's attempt to tackle someone today, without even wrapping his arms around him, has been way too common of a sighting with our secondary. It is time to bring coaches in who teach basic fundamentals as well as getting improvement out of players who were drafted high.

Well said. C"mon people it is way to early to give up on Jackson or Burks. Jackson was WR his first three years at Iowa. He is still learning the position. Burks was a safety that moved to LB late in college. He is still learning the position. There is a learning curve in the NFL.

Remember Ahmad Carroll DB drafted in first round from Arkansas. That was a bust.

 

[rodell330]

A DE is an Edge is a DE.

I swear, somebody needs to sticky that.

Not in a freaking 3-4 scheme! I know what I’m talking about, dude. In a 3-4 scheme the DE’s are bigger guys who’s main job is to DEFEND the RUN and occupy blockers...You’re basically calling Mike Daniels and Dean Lowry edge rushers who Are not at all. In a 3-4 scheme the “EDGE Rushers” are the OLB’S. Who RUSH the passer from the EDGE! and/or contain the D gap. That’s the OLBs main purpose in a 3-4. Put that on a sticky note!

 

[rodell330]

I'm pretty sure his comment was made in response to someone saying that McShay didn't have us taking an "edge" guy in the draft, therefore he's an idiot. The guy he had mocked to us, was listed as a DE, and he most certainly is and Edge guy. Or at least likely. He's certainly not a base 3-4 DE.

it seems to be a thing on here where most people see DE in college and think it means the guy shouldn't play standing up in the NFL when there are so many guys that make the transition from college hand on the ground DE to NFL "EDGE" i can't even believe it needs to be mentioned that it's possible.

anyway, does it matter what we call them? Base defense is hardly ever used. Linebackers move up on the line, off the line, DE's DT's NT's move all along the line, play with 3 big guys, 4 big guys, 2 big guys, a single big guy, safeties are playing sometimes LB'er sometimes safety, sometimes CB. I don't think the position marker is nearly as important as how they'll function for a team and Sweat is obviously and "edge" rusher, not a big bodied block eater traditional DE in a base 3-4.

Like I told Janis. A DE is NOT an edge rusher in a 3-4 scheme. The Packers NEED to stop drafting guys who were college DE’s and stop trying to make them into OLB’s. They have failed miserably in doing so! Nick Perry and Dhaytone Jones are perfect examples of that!! Clay Matthews was The best 3-4 OLB in terms of getting sacks off the edge! He was ACTUALLY a OLB coming out! Go figure. If they are going to take a DE they need to leave him at DE once he gets into camp! No more projects!