Pack vs Cards part 2

[JP Doyal]

Although the Packers are benefiting from these and that's what the rules are now and Aaron is just making the best of the rules. I really hate how unfair the rules are for defenses. Why is it only that the offense gets to dictate when substitutions will happen?
Another one we benefit from but don't like are the free plays. Why is every other play blown dead right away, but when the defense jumps the offense gets a free play, the defense doesn't get to rush if an offense false starts do they?

The one I really hate are pass interference spots. For a judgement decision, it can earn an offense 20,30,40 yards in chunks is unfair. I like the college rule where it's just 15 yards.

Shawne is that you?....

 

[El Guapo]

Another one we benefit from but don't like are the free plays. Why is every other play blown dead right away, but when the defense jumps the offense gets a free play, the defense doesn't get to rush if an offense false starts do they?

It's no different than hockey. If the defense commits a penalty then it's a delayed penalty and the offense is allowed to play on. If the offense commits a penalty then play is stopped.

 

[Ceodore]

The one I really hate are pass interference spots. For a judgement decision, it can earn an offense 20,30,40 yards in chunks is unfair. I like the college rule where it's just 15 yards.

This is a tough one for me because, while i dont think it's fair to assume the WR is going to make the catch and give them the spot foul, i imagine it would be horribly exploited on long balls where defenders knew they were beat. A fair compromise imo would be to have the penalty be like 60-75% of the spot of the foul or something but they'd never do that as it'd probably take too much time to figure out where it'd go.

 

[azrsx05]

I disagree with all of this. The offense gets to dictate substitutions because otherwise you could stop an uptempo offense by subbing every play. False starts are blown dead because it's a pre-snap penalty. As soon as the offensive player moves, the penalty occurred and there's no point of the play going on. For offsides or neutral zone or 12 men, the penalty doesn't occur until the ball is snapped, at which point the play is already happening. In short, it's dead ball vs. live ball penalties. For the record, not all fouls on the offense are dead ball penalties. The offense isn't in an illegal formation until the ball is snapped. Therefore, on illegal formation penalties the play isn't blown dead. As for the pass interference plays, these are professional football players, they need to be able to cover downfield without interfering. If it wasn't a spot foul you'd see a lot more intentional pass interference on deep balls, as DBs would be more willing to take a 15 yard penalty than give up a big play.

We obviously have different views on this. But I think all these rules that are helping the offense will harm the game. Sure, the fast scoring offenses are fun for a bit. But then we will easily get bored of fans begin to boo their team when they are not putting up 35+ points every game. We are a perfect example of that. We have lost joy for the game because we expect the team to go down the field every drive.

Interference calls are a judgment call. How many times every week do we see calls that should not be called interference and refs will change games because an interference call gets them 40 yds chunks.

 

[broguy]

We obviously have different views on this. But I think all these rules that are helping the offense will harm the game. Sure, the fast scoring offenses are fun for a bit. But then we will easily get bored of fans begin to boo their team when they are not putting up 35+ points every game. We are a perfect example of that. We have lost joy for the game because we expect the team to go down the field every drive.

Interference calls are a judgment call. How many times every week do we see calls that should not be called interference and refs will change games because an interference call gets them 40 yds chunks.

I can at least see your argument on pass interference, although I still disagree. I think refs have actually become fairly consistent on this call, but as with any call they are susceptible to mistakes. But the other calls (e.g. dead ball vs. live ball penalties and 12 men on the field) have been around forever and aren't really designed to be an extra advantage for the offense, though Rodgers has definitely used twelve men to his advantage.

 

[828Packer]

Tretter looks better than Bakhtari. Could it be that Campen has missed again????

I'm so sure Tretter looked better than anyone, the last time we were in Arizona. Haha!

That was brutal.

 

[Tacklynn]

2 questions for you about Pack vs Cards, part 2:

Where is Andrew Quarless at this point? Is this even an issue for the next game?

What do you know about Cardinal injuries that might make them less competitive than last time? Or, are there players who had to sit out the last game that are healthy for this next meeting?

 

[C-Lee]

2 questions for you about Pack vs Cards, part 2:

Where is Andrew Quarless at this point? Is this even an issue for the next game?

What do you know about Cardinal injuries that might make them less competitive than last time? Or, are there players who had to sit out the last game that are healthy for this next meeting?

I saw Quarless on the field a couple of times yesterday. I'm pretty sure he's just blocking out there. I'm okay with it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers offense looked really goid for three quarters against the Redskins but I'm not confident they'll be able to keep it up vs. the Cardinals.

Unfortunately I expect our season to end on Saturday.

 

[milani]

With MM as head coach, every playoff defeat has come against either the NFC West or the New York Giants. Let's buck that trend.

Can we learn anything from the way Seattle pummeled the Cardinals a week ago? Obviously, the Seahawks made some adjustments from their earlier loss to Arizona.

 

[milani]

The Packers offense looked really goid for three quarters against the Redskins but I'm not confident they'll be able to keep it up vs. the Cardinals.

Unfortunately I expect our season to end on Saturday.

The Cardinals have a better pass rush and a better secondary than Washington. I think Russell Wilson was able to spread them out to get guys open.

 

[Un4GivN]

I'm looking forward to hearing if the Packers can put as big of a crowd in Arizona as they did the first time. Damn near a home game.

Packers have their work cut out for them...

BUT if the offense can put up 30, Arizona offense was only resp for 24 points the last game. Not to mention the interception before halftime that seemed to deflate the defense and added another 7.

As someone mentioned in a different post I believe. That game turned on a couple plays. I think this one will be closer than the vegas line 7.5. Though I can't really blame them for the line, I think it comes down to the end. If the Packers play to their potential they can pull it out.

 

[broguy]

The Cardinals have a better pass rush and a better secondary than Washington. I think Russell Wilson was able to spread them out to get guys open.

While you wouldn't think so from the two games we played, football outsiders actually grades out Washington's pass rush as much better than Arizona's. I posted this in the Left Tackle thread too:

"Regarding the Redskins, their pass rush is actually ranked 9th in the NFL this season according to football outsiders. So that was no small feat to hold them to the 1 sack with a patched together line. In comparison, Arizona's pass rush is ranked 27th in the league (note: they're 2nd against the run and have the 3rd overall defense) and demolished our line two weeks ago, so moving Tretter out to the left resulted in noticeable improvement.

That's not to say that change solved all of our problems. I'm afraid a lot of the improvement we saw on offense was the result of Washington's poor defense (21st in the league, worst in the playoffs). Still, we played some mediocre defenses down the stretch and didn't have the kind of success we had yesterday (Detroit x 2, Oakland, Dallas for 3 quarters, Chicago at home), so I'm cautiously optimistic."

 

[C-Lee]

If we play PACKER football, we can do this.

It'd be really nice if Aaron goes into 2010 mode, too.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

It will come down to our offensive and defensive fronts to win the game. If Rodgers has time to get in a rhythm, he will pick apart anyone. And if the front can get the pressure they did yesterday (Washington has a good offensive line), then things should look much better.

 

[Zeck180]

Well I looked at the odds and the "experts" are giving the Packers a 8% chance to beat the Cards.

 

[Un4GivN]

Well I looked at the odds and the "experts" are giving the Packers a 8% chance to beat the Cards.

So you are saying we have a chance!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While you wouldn't think so from the two games we played, football outsiders actually grades out Washington's pass rush as much better than Arizona's. I posted this in the Left Tackle thread too:

"Regarding the Redskins, their pass rush is actually ranked 9th in the NFL this season according to football outsiders. So that was no small feat to hold them to the 1 sack with a patched together line. In comparison, Arizona's pass rush is ranked 27th in the league (note: they're 2nd against the run and have the 3rd overall defense) and demolished our line two weeks ago, so moving Tretter out to the left resulted in noticeable improvement.

That's not to say that change solved all of our problems. I'm afraid a lot of the improvement we saw on offense was the result of Washington's poor defense (21st in the league, worst in the playoffs). Still, we played some mediocre defenses down the stretch and didn't have the kind of success we had yesterday (Detroit x 2, Oakland, Dallas for 3 quarters, Chicago at home), so I'm cautiously optimistic."

While I agree that the Cardinals pass rush isn't as good as we made it look against them.there's no doubt that overall their defense is way better than the Redskins one. The offense showed major improvements yesterday but with them having struggled for most of the season I have a hard time believing in them being able to put up 30 points on Saturday.

 

[broguy]

While I agree that the Cardinals pass rush isn't as good as we made it look against them.there's no doubt that overall their defense is way better than the Redskins one. The offense showed major improvements yesterday but with them having struggled for most of the season I have a hard time believing in them being able to put up 30 points on Saturday.

Oh, I agree 100%. That's why I made note of the Cardinals having a top 3 defense, while the Redskins aren't even top 20. But the protection yesterday was encouraging, and will need be replicated Saturday. It's also hard for me to envision our offense putting up 30, even with improved protection, which means our defense really has to step up. I could see a 28-24 game in our favor if the defense gives the offense a short field or scores a touchdown of its own. It's going to take a complete game, our best of the season. It's a long shot, but it's not impossible. I'm holding out hope.

 

[mongoosev]

really? huh... thought that was just a pretty well-fought game all around and wouldn't have expected any bad blood over it

Agree. Good game and the outcome was accordingly with a highly favored team, which we were prior to bye week, against a weaker team. So Packers working on all cylinders did just that and beat a weaker team and scored as we should have. Now if any of the other teams in the playoff beat Washington with the same scoring outcome no one would have been surprised, but just because we were the struggling Packers after the bye week most people counted us out.
I suppose Washington fans were wishful thinkers and thought their team would have advanced IF they were playing the struggling Packers that we saw and were frustrated with after the bye week. NOPE, THE PACKS ARE BACK, BABY!

Now IF this offense is working on all cylinders we should have no problem with Arizona. I am going to go into this week with my highly favored Packers team that they were prior to the bye week. This is the PACKERS and not some fluke of a team that was lucky to make the playoffs.

GO Packs GO!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Oh, I agree 100%. That's why I made note of the Cardinals having a top 3 defense, while the Redskins aren't even top 20. But the protection yesterday was encouraging, and will need be replicated Saturday. It's also hard for me to envision our offense putting up 30, even with improved protection, which means our defense really has to step up. I could see a 28-24 game in our favor if the defense gives the offense a short field or scores a touchdown of its own. It's going to take a complete game, our best of the season. It's a long shot, but it's not impossible. I'm holding out hope.

I like your optimism but taking a realistic look at the matchup the Cardinals are the more talented team and it will be awfully tough for the Packers to pull off an upset.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Now IF this offense is working on all cylinders we should have no problem with Arizona.

Arizona is a highly talented team and even if the Packers offense can repeat yesterday's performance it will for sure not be easy to defeat them on Saturday.

 

[broguy]

I like your optimism but taking a realistic look at the matchup the Cardinals are the more talented team and it will be awfully tough for the Packers to pull off an upset.

Yeah, I think we're on the same page. The above wasn't what I think will happen, it's just how we could pull off an upset. I'd take Arizona if I had to put money on it, but I hope the Pack prove me wrong

 

[Un4GivN]

Yeah, I think we're on the same page. The above wasn't what I think will happen, it's just how we could pull off an upset. I'd take Arizona if I had to put money on it, but I hope the Pack prove me wrong

Honestly I'd take the Packers on that line if I was betting... Think that's pretty generous. The game... I don't think it as far as people want to believe. If the Pack play well look at what Minnesota did to Seattle after being blown out.

Hard to do that twice.

 

[broguy]

Honestly I'd take the Packers on that line if I was betting... Think that's pretty generous. The game... I don't think it as far as people want to believe. If the Pack play well look at what Minnesota did to Seattle after being blown out.

Hard to do that twice.

Yeah, I meant money line, not the spread. I think there are positive signs for this being a closer game, but I think Arizona is just a better overall team this year. That being said, if we do pull this off, we go from cast off to legitimate super bowl contender, so there's a lot on the line. Man, it'd be fun to make an unexpected run at this thing after such a disappointing end to the regular season.