Offensive Talent

[Pokerbrat2000]

He drafted 3 WR's last year, 3. It takes a season or 2 or 3 to let them develop.

Again, I acknowledged that several posts ago. The problem is, how many later round and UDFA WR's have had success in GB? One in the last 25 years that I know of, Donald Driver. MVS is showing signs, but then again so did a lot of later round picks before him. So expecting him and Allison to be your complimentary WR's to Adams in 2019 is a good plan?

Geronimo was a fairly highly rated WR free agent this offseason by more than a couple publications.

Yet, was only able to land a 1 year contract for $2.8 M, I think that tells you just how highly valued he was as a FA WR.

Again, I have no clue what the future will bring, but I will stick to my preseason criticism, relying on this group for 2019 was a gamble, we will see how it pays off.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Calling Jones a top 10 back is a stretch.

Fine, let's make him a top-15 RB...does that really change the fact that you can't say the Packers lack offensive talent after removing Adams and Jones because that's not how offensive talent analysis works; Adams and Jones are actually on the team.

 

[greengold]

This whole notion that our WRs chosen in latter rounds of the draft should automatically be classified as inferior or altogether dismissed as substandard seems wrong.

This abstract points directly to that starting around page 32.
https://fisherpub.sjfc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1064&context=sport_undergrad

I am all for drafting a top talent next year, and I’d be all in on trading for one at WR this year before end of October if need be.

But, let’s just allow for an already great offense (imo) to learn their new systems and put them into real practice (they have already shown steady improvement games 1-3) during these next 3 games PHI, @DAL & DET. Improved play at both OG positions should really help Rodgers stay upright, along with our running game. Our WRs AND RBs could make BIG strides during this span.

If not, there will still be two weeks for Gutes to make a trade to add a WR.

Personally, I think this offense is going to be taking off like a rocket ship, starting tomorrow night.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think we should track these next several games very closely. I believe during the offseason projections we were prepared for a possible setback Offensively because of all the major changes top to bottom, particularly on Offense. That’s one of several reasonable or warranted expectations. However, on the flip side, we came out extremely strong Defensively. I would surmise towards the top end of our expectations of our projected ceiling.

We got out of the blocks fast at 3-0 with dominating Defensive performances. IMO, that warrants increasing consideration by using a strategy of doubling down on additional Offensive player personnel. The longer we go undefeated, the better opportunity we present ourselves with to win now.

You obviously always bet on a hot hand, but not so much you scare your opponents either. We are just a couple of game changing players away from a complete team. One that would be truly dominant when the Offense starts clicking.
We need another stellar Receiver. I would ideally like to use a future day 2 pick for a multiple year contract veteran receiver, but I’d go higher if the perfect opportunity presented itself. I’m not normally a guy who wants to mortgage future assets. but we finally have a top 10 D. Time to open the throttle and see what she’s got under the hood.

As I've pointed out, the Colts, Titans, and 49ers have all scored more points than the Packers and have lesser offensive talent. Yes, better players would help (that's true on offense and defense) but the issue for this team is more the gameplan and execution than talent. Go look at points scored this season and you will see plenty of teams ahead of the Packers that all have less offensive talent than the Packers. The primary issue is NOT lack of talent.

 

[PackerDNA]

How many games before it becomes an issue with talent rather than still learning the scheme? Not saying things one way or another, or that it's time to panic. But sooner or later things don't click, then you got to look for other issues.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

As I've pointed out, the Colts, Titans, and 49ers have all scored more points than the Packers and have lesser offensive talent. Yes, better players would help (that's true on offense and defense) but the issue for this team is more the gameplan and execution than talent. Go look at points scored this season and you will see plenty of teams ahead of the Packers that all have less offensive talent than the Packers. The primary issue is NOT lack of talent.

Those teams have significantly more talent in the skill positions outside of QB.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This whole notion that our WRs chosen in latter rounds of the draft should automatically be classified as inferior or altogether dismissed as substandard seems wrong.

Metrics aside, go back and look at the Packer Receivers who have had success for the Packers in the last 25+ years. Donald Driver is about the only one that had any success and wasn't picked in rounds 1-3. That isn't saying with 100% assurance that none of these players for the Packers won't be successful, its just saying history has proven otherwise.

 

[Mondio]

How many games before it becomes an issue with talent rather than still learning the scheme? Not saying things one way or another, or that it's time to panic. But sooner or later things don't click, then you got to look for other issues.

I've been saying since practically before they named a coach it would be 6 weeks before the offense might do more than show a few glimpses. i think it will take until at least then to be able to say with any degree of confidence that it's the players holding it back or not.

 

[Mondio]

Again, I acknowledged that several posts ago. The problem is, how many later round and UDFA WR's have had success in GB? One in the last 25 years that I know of, Donald Driver. MVS is showing signs, but then again so did a lot of later round picks before him. So expecting him and Allison to be your complimentary WR's to Adams in 2019 is a good plan?

Yet, was only able to land a 1 year contract for $2.8 M, I think that tells you just how highly valued he was as a FA WR.

Again, I have no clue what the future will bring, but I will stick to my preseason criticism, relying on this group for 2019 was a gamble, we will see how it pays off.

Did signing a HOF TE help?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Did signing a HOF TE help?

LOL....come on man, you are better than trying to use Jimmy Graham to make your point. I would counter that with, maybe with a better supporting cast of WR's around him, he might have.

 

[greengold]

How many games before it becomes an issue with talent rather than still learning the scheme? Not saying things one way or another, or that it's time to panic. But sooner or later things don't click, then you got to look for other issues.

Hey PackerDNA, my thinking on this has always been about 4-6 weeks. Seems reasonable. We should be seeing contributions from a number of other players soon: Allison, Kumerow, Shepherd, Tonyan, Bayliss.

I have zero doubts about these players contributing in substantial ways for the Packers, and believe Adams, Jones & Williams will flourish in this O as the season progresses.

 

[Mondio]

LOL....come on man, you are better than trying to use Jimmy Graham to make your point. I would counter that with, maybe with a better supporting cast of WR's around him, he might have.

Yes I did, what do you think the Chiefs become without Kelce? don't think he counts? Since when is a prolific Pass catcher at the TE position not important?

anyway your non answer, answers it. It didn't help. He's been as anemic as one can be out there.

 

[gbgary]

Complacent is not a term I'd use to describe this front office.

exactly. that term is reserved for the last regime.

 

[Mondio]

MLF 1st time head coach. He needs to learn what he has in players, learn what they do best, how to hide weakness etc. In addition he has to learn how to call a cohesive game plan, not just design plays. He has to manage an entire team, he has to manage a staff that he's never had to do and he has to teach his scheme to an entire team of players he's never worked with before.

That right there is enough to hold a team full of playmakers back for a while. I swear every year the amount of fans that actually appreciate and realize what it takes to make things go dwindles.

 

[PackerDNA]

It seems that the consensus for the offense to get things down pat is about 4 to 6 weeks. I'm going to agree with that.

 

[Mondio]

It seems that the consensus for the offense to get things down pat is about 4 to 6 weeks. I'm going to agree with that.

whoaaa, i'm not saying down pat, i'm saying they may actually start to look like a cohesive unit with a bit more consistency and fewer "WTF was that" moments. it will be a full season at least until they have it down pat.

 

[gbgary]

How about "potentially delusional" than, when it comes to the Receiving group?

i think they know it needs attention but they could only fix one side of the ball at a time. they decided the D was in worse need than the O. they've mostly fixed it and managed to help the O-line too. next offseason it'll be ilb and weapons on the O side.

 

[Mondio]

i think they know it needs attention but they could only fix one side of the ball at a time. they decided the D was in worse need than the O. they've mostly fixed it and managed to help the O-line too. next offseason it'll be ilb and weapons on the O side.

which to me is a great plan. You have a returning Defensive coach that had a season to learn what he had, and what he needed to make this go. They jettisoned dead weight and got him parts he wanted/needed and it's working.

Contrast that with an offensive head coach that has a ton to learn about being a head in the first place and doesn't really know a single player on that side of the ball. I can guess that next season is spent getting rid of what he doesn't want to work with, and getting the players in with the skill sets he wants to make his offense go. He has to learn his players, it doesn't all happen from film.

 

[greengold]

MLF 1st time head coach. He needs to learn what he has in players, learn what they do best, how to hide weakness etc. In addition he has to learn how to call a cohesive game plan, not just design plays. He has to manage an entire team, he has to manage a staff that he's never had to do and he has to teach his scheme to an entire team of players he's never worked with before.

That right there is enough to hold a team full of playmakers back for a while. I swear every year the amount of fans that actually appreciate and realize what it takes to make things go dwindles.

I totally agree. Maybe it takes an entire 8 games before we see what we have cookin’... have to also consider they will continue to learn and grow within the new LaFleur system and coaching.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes I did, what do you think the Chiefs become without Kelce? don't think he counts? Since when is a prolific Pass catcher at the TE position not important?

anyway your non answer, answers it. It didn't help. He's been as anemic as one can be out there.

Not really sure what point you are trying to make TBH. Signing a FA TE, that has played like crap should prevent Gute from ever trying to sign another FA TE/Receiver? Or Graham would be great if coaching and scheme were better? Or if Graham played better, the WR's not named Adams would suddenly be getting open, catching balls and getting more YAC?
I will add to this list, maybe Graham is better with better WR's around him?

There is only one thing that will convince me that the Packers are not currently playing with a group of WR's, that besides Adams, lack talent and that will be watching them consistently play better. Until then, you can keep pointing to other reasons for a lack of production on offense with #12 as the QB, but I'm not going to buy it. All I have to do is picture how good this offense would be, if they had the same receiving corp as at least 1/2 the teams in the NFL have.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Those teams have significantly more talent in the skill positions outside of QB.

Really? What WR do the 49ers have that's Superior to Adams? What RB that's better than Jones? Same thing for the Colts. And are you honestly trying to say that the Titans, the TITANS, have better receivers and running backs than the Packers?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

i think they know it needs attention but they could only fix one side of the ball at a time. they decided the D was in worse need than the O. they've mostly fixed it and managed to help the O-line too. next offseason it'll be ilb and weapons on the O side.

I would disagree with that and it feels like just another excuse. While I agree that the defense definitely needed improving, that doesn't mean the Packers didn't have the resources to improve the offense at the same time. How much cap space do they currently have? How many future picks do they have that can be used in trades? Basically, there are moves that could have been made and still could be made, to improve a receiving group that I frankly feel Gute and the Packers were overly optimistic on and thus stood pat. Drafting Sternberger in the 3rd was the only thing that was attempted this past off season and that was more with an eye on 2020 and Graham being gone.

Last thing I am going to say, I hope I am wrong about the receiving group, but if I am not, Gute still has time to try and fix this for 2019, if he chooses to. However, if at the end of the season, it is still a problem, he needs to try and fix it in Free Agency with his eye on 2020 season. I don't think drafting a WR, even using their first round pick (unless top 10) is actually going to fix it for 2020.

 

[gbgary]

It seems that the consensus for the offense to get things down pat is about 4 to 6 weeks. I'm going to agree with that.

they'll never have this O down pat because it's constantly changing. they're not running MLF's O yet. it's a cluster F. rodgers is going to have to come to a realization and until that happens nothing's going to change.

 

[OldSchool101]

Complacent is not a term I'd use to describe this front office.

He said Offensive complacency. Absolutely and then some. Actually that’s being far too delicate, I’d just say “largely ignored”. We have gradually deteriorated to a status of “1 WR injury from being in the crap house” and we all know that’s not a secret. Now Graham was a nice projection that has been disappointing, but he’s the only supposedly high grade O weapon we’ve seen in years.

When’s the last time we opted for a high grade receiving target in either the draft OR Free Agency?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It seems that the consensus for the offense to get things down pat is about 4 to 6 weeks. I'm going to agree with that.

Yup, though it would nice to see progress improve week-to-week. Positives first, I'm happy the Packers are running the ball more after being last in the NFL for rush play percent. That's the only definitive positive I've seen so far; that's not too say everything else is negative! However, I think the rest of the offense is basically unknown.

At some point within the next few games we need to see the imaginative offense and scheme that mlf was hired to bring in. That should include finding ways to get the ball to the best players on offense which he hasn't been able to do yet. Again, he should be given time, but with Adams, Jones, a very good oline, and Rodgers on offense, there should be no excuses for this not being at least a top-10 scoring offense from say, week 7 on (especially when you look at the defenses the Packers play).