ExpatPacker
Cheesehead
Clive Walford from Miami is really starting to impress. Mayock thinks he's the "most explosive" TE in the draft. If he's there in round 2, he might be a good pick.
Now's as good a time as any to start free agent discussions.
- Thread starter Packerlifer
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Clive Walford from Miami is really starting to impress. Mayock thinks he's the "most explosive" TE in the draft. If he's there in round 2, he might be a good pick.
D
Deleted member 6794
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It seems like he has impressed during Senior Bowl practices so far. While I don´t put too much stock into the Combine I´m interested in seeing his 40 time.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
That goes without saying.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
nfldraftscout.com has him listed in the 4.78 - 4.98 range, about the same as Rodgers' Combine numbers. He looks like he might be a bit faster than that in the clips, but not much.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113368&draftyear=2015&genpos=TE
He looks a bit quicker out of his breaks than Rodgers, short route separation being his chief virtue, probably because he's built like an over-sized WR. On the other hand, A. Rodgers has said R. Rodgers may have the best hands among Packer receivers so you're not likely to find improvement on that score with Walford.
I don't see enough to differentiate those two players to justify a second round pick. He's does not look like a seam buster in the faster NFL game; he might be an upgrade for red zone short routes. I'd also be concerned how well his blocking would develop for the NFL game with his build.
It's interesting that the draft has not produced many sub-4.7 TEs among the better prospects the last two years:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/probe.php?genpos=TE&draftyear=2014&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/probe.php?genpos=TE&draftyear=2015&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC
H
HardRightEdge
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As an FYI, the Senior Bowl is being played tomorrow at 4:00 PM Eastern on the NFL Network. The hour beforehand includes a practice recap and pregame analysis.
Of course, the underclassmen who have declared for the draft are not invited and many of the top prospects choose to skip it. Nonetheless, there will be plenty of guys playing who will go in the low 1st. round on down. There are always a few who jump out and zip up the draft board; Bobby Wagner and Ziggy Ansah are a couple from recent years who come immediately to mind.
Of course, the underclassmen who have declared for the draft are not invited and many of the top prospects choose to skip it. Nonetheless, there will be plenty of guys playing who will go in the low 1st. round on down. There are always a few who jump out and zip up the draft board; Bobby Wagner and Ziggy Ansah are a couple from recent years who come immediately to mind.
7thFloorRA
Cheesehead
Terrance Cody was just released by the Ravens. Could be a nice cheap FA for TT. He is coming off injury and needs a change of scenery it seems but D-lineman for the 3-4 don't grow on trees and he is probably worth a camp look and possibly part of the rotation.
D
Deleted member 6794
Guest
Cody is 345 pounds which doesn't fit the Packers trying to get more athletic on the defensive line. In addition he missed all but one game because of a hip injury and is under investigation for animal cruelty.
thisisnate
Cheesehead
Kindly point out where I said SF will be able to retain him or even made any mention whatsoever of the salary cap.
It's a pipe dream because there's no freaking way Ted would trade for him, and if he was a FA, he's not the kind of FA Ted has or will ever pursue.
Seriously, we go through this every year. Ted brings in old guys a with a few good years and leadership qualities or over-looked 2nd tier guys.
7thFloorRA
Cheesehead
Good lord....didn't know he was out Michael Vicking up the animal world.
H
HardRightEdge
Guest
Well, you did make mention of "prying him" from SF. The point being, assessments about keeping or letting go can't be made without looking at the cap, and SF's situation is very strained.
Anyway, Ted brought in Julius Peppers with a cap number of $15.5 mil over the first 2 years with $8.5 mil in guaranteed money. Willis' cap number over the last 2 years of his contract will be about $17 mil with zero guarantees. I fail to see the philosophical distinction except perhaps that Willis would be the younger player and the better of the two deals.
The nature of Thompson's heart and mind as illuminated by the "In Ted We Trust" acolytes has proved to be quite interesting over the last few years.
As recently as 2011, the story was that Thompson drafts the best player available (despite evidence to the contrary). Then he proceeded to drop nearly the entire draft on defensive picks in 2012 ("I lost my mind", he told us, when we know he did not) and first rounders again in 2013 and 2014 for obvious defensive positions of need.
With that notion debunked, it was "Ted is a draft and develop guy; all this big time free agent talk is nonsense." Then he killed that story line with the Peppers signing.
The only remaining chip to fall is the "Ted would never trade a pick" assumption.
Will Ted make a play for Willis? Unlikely; it would probably stretch the cap to the limits and require dropping a couple second line players in the bargain. Should he explore it? Yes, it would be worth looking into. Will SF slash and burn elsewhere to keep him? Possibly. I see Willis is trying to talk Justin Smith out of retirement so he does not expect to be going anywhere. The SF Chronicle is not much help; they're consumed with the coaching shuffle.
The point being, the assumption that Ted's free agent explorations should and will be confined to washed up centers, 2-strike drug offenders and minimum salary D-Line vets should have gone under some reconsideration after the Peppers signing.
The Willis example should serve as an illustration, even if somewhat remote, of possibilities at the high end of the scale which should prod some thinking about guys somewhat lower on the scale. There's more to free agency than guys like Saturday, Liaina, Muir, Mulligan, Young, Wallace, Hargrove or even Guion on the one end of the scale and Suh, et. al. on the other.
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HardRightEdge
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Actually, it's been two straight off seasons with hip surgery for Cody. We already have a stiff-hipped big man in Pennel.
We were already fearing for the life of Bostick's dog (and maybe McCarthy's too judging from a recent poll in these pages). Do we need to compound that risk?
thisisnate
Cheesehead
Peppers was an old man with a few years left in the tank. That was not an unprecedented move by Ted. Short term deal that's easy to opt out of.
Willis would be completely unprecedented. He is at his peak and will command massive money.
Practically the definition of pipe dream, and again... we see this every single off-season.
Willis would be completely unprecedented. He is at his peak and will command massive money.
Practically the definition of pipe dream, and again... we see this every single off-season.
D
Deleted member 6794
Guest
Willis is still under contract for another two years, he's not a free agent. He would count $7.8 million towards the cap in 2015 (releasing Hawk and Jones would save the Packers $7.25 million in cap space).
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HardRightEdge
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Thanks. I did not want to have to explain that for the third or fourth or fifth time.
Well he did trade a 6th for Ryan Grant...not much, but probably considered above value for Grant at the time.
thisisnate
Cheesehead
I know that. Other users (not me!!!!!!! lol) were discussing the possibility of trading for him, which is why I mentioned it.
If you'd read the entire thread, you would see other users were discussing trade options, which is why I even mentioned it.
As for Willis not being a FA, you don't need to "explain it again." Was understood at post 1. You were talking about SF not being able to retain him, which would mean they would cut/release him, which would make him a FA.
You act like I'm the one that introduced the Willis idea into this thread...
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HardRightEdge
Guest
I forgot about that. Ted also drafted for need long before 2012, but that's another story.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
We went over this...if SF thought they could not afford him, they would look to trade him before they cut or released him. If they cut or released him there would be no compensation, just as the Packers owe nothing to the Bears for signing Peppers.
Now, what would that cost? Top drawer players who are FAs but are unaffordable to their current team are allowed to walk away all of the time. The most in compensation they can expect in those cases is a 3rd. round pick.
If Willis is found to be unaffordable, a 3rd. round pick in trade would be reasonable.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
That's another inexplicable bit of logic.
thisisnate
Cheesehead
I feel like none of your responses even address what I said, but whatever. I'll just mentally fast-forward to camp, at which point we can acknowledge that likely nobody in the front office ever entertained this idea for a even millisecond.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
That too would not surprise me in the least.
thisisnate
Cheesehead
That was literally all I was trying to get across in the entirety of my postings here
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HardRightEdge
Guest
That was obvious. What was also obvious is you would not or could not consider the other side of the argument. It just struck me as a "no, no, no...Ted would never do that" position, which is no case at all.That was literally all I was trying to get across in the entirety of my postings here
I think Capers should be fired. I don't think the Packers would consider it for a "milisecond" to use your phrase, at least for this offseason. That does not mean it would not be a good idea.
ThePerfectBeard
Cheesehead
I hope people keep thinking this way and Mad Maxx turns into a steal for us. Dude's highlights are ridiculous. He makes some great catches.
Packerlifer
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