Now's as good a time as any to start free agent discussions.

[7thFloorRA]

7.5 mil of cap and a 2nd round pick for willis?? No way. I would rather have Perryman on a rookie salary and the space and the pick. If you cut Peppers and pick up Willis then on the cap its costing you 14-15 mil for him I believe.

 

[ExpatPacker]

7.5 mil of cap and a 2nd round pick for willis?? No way. I would rather have Perryman on a rookie salary and the space and the pick. If you cut Peppers and pick up Willis then on the cap its costing you 14-15 mil for him I believe.

How much would cutting Peppers count against the cap?

Willis is 29 years old. He's a pro-bowl ILB. He probably has 3-4 good years at that level. 9 ers aren't going to give him up for peanuts.

 

[7thFloorRA]

I thought cutting peppers was 7.5 mil hit for next year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Even if it meant not bringing Peppers back, I'd rather than Willis than Peppers.

Cutting both Hawk and B. Jones while taking on Willis' contract would add only about $1 mil to the cap in 2015. Jones and Hawk are certainly on the bubble regardless.

Another plus in taking on Willis' contract, which runs through 2016, is there's no guaranteed money left in it. If he were to play anywhere close to expectations in 2015 he'd likely be amenable to a re-negotiation of the last year of the deal in exchange for a signing bonus spread over a few years for cap purposes. If he doesn't work out, he can be gone after 2015 at no cost, a much lower risk proposition than the Peppers signing last season.

Willis has played in a 3-4 scheme for years, one with hybrid 4-3 sets as the Packers started using in 2014. The intangibles are there: he's smart, a good citizen as far as I can tell, and a leader on and off the field.

The need is obvious; the fit is there; the talent is not in dispute; the money works. It's just a question of whether SF sees him as a core player to be kept at the expense of some other cutting-to-the-bone while being overstocked at ILB and whether Thompson would make the leap if the opportunity presented itself.

 

[HardRightEdge]

How much would cutting Peppers count against the cap?

Willis is 29 years old. He's a pro-bowl ILB. He probably has 3-4 good years at that level. 9 ers aren't going to give him up for peanuts.

If Peppers were to be cut before June 1 he'd count for $5 mil against the cap in 2015 because of the prorated signing bonus. If cut after June 1, the team would be able to book $2.5 mil against the cap in both 2015 and 2016.

http://overthecap.com/player/julius-peppers/135/

 

[HardRightEdge]

I thought cutting peppers was 7.5 mil hit for next year.

No. If he's cut the cap hit is $5 mil. If he stays under the current deal his cap is $12 mil.

http://overthecap.com/player/julius-peppers/135/

So the relevant question as far as Peppers is concerned is whether or not he's worth $7 mil in cap for 2015. I think it's fair to say the answer is "yes", on performance alone, but particularly in light of the lack of a young stud in line for more snaps.

 

[DMANDTM]

I would try to resign Cobb, Bulaga, Guion, House, Bush. It would be nice if Peppers decided that he would like to finish his career as a Packer and restructure his contract to be more cap friendly with that in mind.

 

[7thFloorRA]

Clay needs to get in the contract restructuring line too.

 

[7thFloorRA]

Cobb is taking a big chance playing in the pro bowl this weekend with his signature not on a contract. His stock can only go down by getting hurt. I kind of wish all of them would not play. Just sit down and play a madden tournament and get a plaque and have a party or something.

 

[Shawnsta3]

We need a game clock with two less minutes.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Here's a heretical thought.

Let's suppose nothing is done in free agency with respect to the ILB position.

Then a reasonable conjecture would be the need to draft an ILB in the first or second round to get the kind of 3-down talent that would yield the upgrade needed to get Matthews back at OLB full time. Even then, there would be a heavy burden being placed on said rookie given he'd be playing next to what amounts to a second year player in Barrington who's still learning his job. And if Barrington fails to take a step forward he'd be stuck as an ordinary, if physically needed, player as the rookie's running mate.

So let's say the talent available at #30 includes an OLB with outstanding pass rush potential while the leading ILB candidates have been picked over. Would it be out of the question to keep Matthews in the OLB/ILB swing-man role while beefing up the edge rush talent?

In the past I would have thought "no". In fact, in past discussions noodling over a switch to 4-3, I saw Matthews ill-suited to the DE position and too valuable (and too well paid) to take him out of the edge rush role. Today, given the current composition of the front 7, keeping Matthews in the middle at least part time might be the best way to go. Perry is the bookend who wasn't, leading to the Peppers' signing. Neal's decent, but so often he's a step or half-step short of making the play.

While it's still premature to be thinking about specific draft needs until the fates of Cobb, Bulaga, Williams and House are resolved, I would not rule out an OLB choice over an ILB if the player projection gap is significant enough.

I don't think that Thompson values the 3-4 ILB position enough to spend a first round pick there. I might be wrong but I don't think he's ever really drafted one of those guys very highly.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

7.5 mil of cap and a 2nd round pick for willis?? No way. I would rather have Perryman on a rookie salary and the space and the pick. If you cut Peppers and pick up Willis then on the cap its costing you 14-15 mil for him I believe.

I've said this before but a second round pick is too much. If Thompson wants to trade a first rounder though, I'd be fine with that. Thompson's track record is WAY better in the second round.

 

[7thFloorRA]

I would prefer him to trade the 1st rounder and drop into the first few picks in the 2nd round. Last time he did that Jordy happened. He could still get Perryman or Maxx Williams at that spot and either one would be a major upgrade to their respective positions.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would try to resign Cobb, Bulaga, Guion, House, Bush. It would be nice if Peppers decided that he would like to finish his career as a Packer and restructure his contract to be more cap friendly with that in mind.

Cobb and Bulaga for sure. Guion probably; one year deals like that are "prove it" affairs; he's done what they asked so a new deal is the logical conclusion. I'd think House over Williams. Bush is probably a vet minimum guy at this point somewhat under $1 mil.

When looking at Cobb and Bulaga, those are the kinds of deals with decent signing bonuses with the cap hit back loaded. Guion won't cost that much as a no better than average NT; 3 mil per year, give or take. House won't cost much either as a promising but unproven player. All that, keeping Peppers, and swapping out Hawk and Jones for Willis could be fit under the cap with some room to spare.

The 2015 commitments including Peppers is currently $122 mil. The cap is expected to come in around $140 mil for 2015. With unused cap carryover, the Packers have about $25 mil in cap space for 2015 even with Peppers current deal:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Assume $5 mil held in reserve and $2 mil for rookies net of cuts. Swapping out Hawk and Jones for Willis would be a $1 mil net hit. That would leave $17 mil for Cobb, Bulaga, Guion and House. Through the "miracle" of signing bonus deferred cap hit, that's a tight squeeze, but nearly doable. A few million extra in cap would be very helpful...either out of the reserve, or releasing Crosby or Neal would pick up about $2.5 mil in cap over a rookie replacement.

The other alternative is getting rid of Hawk and Jones anyway and using the savings to fashion contracts that are more front loaded without a signing like Willis. But then we're back where we started...without an ILB and still with a leadership deficit...with fingers crossed that (1) there will be a decent ILB available in the draft and (2) that he'll actually play up to his potential in year 1, which is not a good assumption in light of the recent low first round picks.

Perhaps getting rid of Hawk and Jones and using only part of the savings on a vet ILB looking for work could provide an answer. For instance, Brandon Spikes is a FA once again. He's a run stuffer par excellence, a 1 or 2 down base player who would not cost much provided he does not re-sign with Buffalo. He sat on the bench a lot for them in the later stages of the season as they went to almost exclusively 6-in-the-box nickel as in the Packer game. Who knows what the jack*sses taking over in Buffalo will be doing; Brandon Spikes is likely the last thing on their minds.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Cobb is taking a big chance playing in the pro bowl this weekend with his signature not on a contract. His stock can only go down by getting hurt. I kind of wish all of them would not play. Just sit down and play a madden tournament and get a plaque and have a party or something.

I don't know why the NFL continues with this nonsense except as something to fill the time (and earn some marginal revenue) in the dead week before the Superbowl. Name the players; forgo the game.

You couldn't even safely play a flag football all-star game. They did some kind of off season beach flag football nonsense thing with a few name NFL players a few years back until somebody blew out their knee and missed the next season.

Post season all-star games never have worked in any sport. Most people don't know or recall that MLB held two all-star games for a few years, the mid-season game we've come to know and love (ahem, choke) and a post-season game. As with the Pro Bowl, nobody watched the post-season game so they killed it.

The general idea that the league puts the bulk of the league's star talent on the field and risk injuries for something that doesn't matter and few watch borders on stupidity.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think we need a linebacker that goes to the bench on passing downs.
I'd be as open to getting some more outside guys and just moving Clay around as anything at this point, but I don't want a linebacker being our "fix" that can't stay on the field no matter the down and distance

 

[Mondio]

Williams over house, House over Williams, that's a tough one. House is young, he can play, but he's never stayed on the field. It seems he's out more than he's in. Williams had a shoulder injury, but he's been pretty solid since then, especially now that he's completely healthy. I know he gives up plays, so did Charles Woodson and Neon Deion. We could do way worse than Williams at CB. But he is getting older, how much does he have left at a high level?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't think that Thompson values the 3-4 ILB position enough to spend a first round pick there. I might be wrong but I don't think he's ever really drafted one of those guys very highly.

Until this past season I might have agreed with you. Throw in the safety position as well. But when the talent deficit at the position was so acute at safety that Dix is picked in the first round, and they found the need to move the highest paid OLB in the league to ILB, anything is possible.

It's also worth noting that Hawk was a high pick, albeit as a 4-3 OLB pre-Capers, and he was well paid in his new deal after the SB victory.

 

[thisisnate]

Gonna go out on a limb here ( )... and project that we'll extend our guys in-house and look at a few tier 2 or tier 3 guys. Prying Willis from SF would be every Pack fan's dream, but we have these silly ideas every year and should recognize them for what they are. Now maybe if Pat was 34 or 35 years old... but not a 29 year old stud.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't think we need a linebacker that goes to the bench on passing downs.
I'd be as open to getting some more outside guys and just moving Clay around as anything at this point, but I don't want a linebacker being our "fix" that can't stay on the field no matter the down and distance

I'm not crazy about that idea either, but a guy like Spikes would not be expensive. I agree, as noted in my "heresy post", that I'd rather see Thompson pick a good edge rush OLB candidate with Matthews continuing playing ILB in nickel than reach for an ILB who's not ready for prime time.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Gonna go out on a limb here ( )... and project that we'll extend our guys in-house and look at a few tier 2 or tier 3 guys. Prying Willis from SF would be every Pack fan's dream, but we have these silly ideas every year and should recognize them for what they are. Now maybe if Pat was 34 or 35 years old... but not a 29 year old stud.

The Willis idea is not some kind of pipe dream...for some team if not the Packers. You've evidently not grasped the cap hell SF has entered and their limited options for getting out of it. I'd say the odds of Willis playing for somebody other than SF next season are about 50/50.

If you don't agree then you need to illuminate me as to the how SF will get out of their bind as described in post #20 above.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would prefer him to trade the 1st rounder and drop into the first few picks in the 2nd round. Last time he did that Jordy happened. He could still get Perryman or Maxx Williams at that spot and either one would be a major upgrade to their respective positions.

I think Maxx Williams is overrated and won´t turn into the TE the Packers desperately need. Actually I don´t think there´s one available in this year´s draft.

House won't cost much either as a promising but unproven player.

I get the feeling that House is actually looking to be paid like a starter, not sure Thompson will offer him a deal like that.

Swapping out Hawk and Jones for Willis would be a $1 mil net hit.

That moves would actually result in only $596,250 of additional cap hit for the Packers as the prorated portion of Willis´ signing bonus would still count towards the Niners cap.

I don't think we need a linebacker that goes to the bench on passing downs. I'd be as open to getting some more outside guys and just moving Clay around as anything at this point, but I don't want a linebacker being our "fix" that can't stay on the field no matter the down and distance

I'm not crazy about that idea either, but a guy like Spikes would not be expensive. I agree, as noted in my "heresy post", that I'd rather see Thompson pick a good edge rush OLB candidate with Matthews continuing playing ILB in nickel than reach for an ILB who's not ready for prime time.

The defense drastically improved in the second half with Matthews moving inside but I´d rather have him play exclusively outside with another stud guy playing every down inside.

 

[ivo610]

Well, we would have to trade for Willis. I would do that in a heartbeak considering he would count approximately $7.8 million towards the cap and the Packers could save $7.25 million by releasing Bead Jones and Hawk.

I'd need the medical staff to sign off on that one before I would get into that one. 30 years old and coming off an injury season makes me nervous as we are in a worse position if he goes down.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'd need the medical staff to sign off on that one before I would get into that one. 30 years old and coming off an injury season makes me nervous as we are in a worse position if he goes down.

I agree that the medical staff has to clear him first. From what I know Willis decided to have surgery this season so his toe injury doesn´t bother him anymore in the future.

 

[Vrill]

If there is ANY way we can get Willis, we need to do it. A presence at ILB makes our defense top 5.