Lazard Situation...

[Deleted member 6794]

LOL....PFF predicting Lazard gets paid $11M/year!

I do like Lazard, but that would be a gross over payment to a guy that had Aaron Rodgers as his QB. Even when he was the #2 or #1 receiver on the Packers depth chart, he didn't contribute like one.

PFF projects $11M per year valuation for Packers free agent WR Allen Lazard

Keeping Allen Lazard in Green Bay probably won't be a cheap proposition for the Packers. According to projections from PFF's Brad Spielberger, Lazard – who will be an unrestricted free agent – may command $11 million per year on his next deal.…

packerswire.usatoday.com

While I definitely hope it's not the Packers I guess there will be at least one team offering Lazard that kind of money.

 

[gopkrs]

While I definitely hope it's not the Packers I guess there will be at least one team offering Lazard that kind of money.

I think his pass catching ability is understated on the forum. He is good at contested deep throws which surprised me. But I have no problem with moving on.

 

[tynimiller]

I think his pass catching ability is understated on the forum. He is good at contested deep throws which surprised me. But I have no problem with moving on.

Amen, Lazard when called on in some of the toughest moments for an offense to convert (third downs and fourth downs) makes things happen. If he sucked as a WR as bad as many feel, his stats there would be abysmal.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

While I definitely hope it's not the Packers I guess there will be at least one team offering Lazard that kind of money.

To tell the truth, I'm not all that impressed with Lazard. I think he is a good receiver. But I don't think he's as good as he thinks he is.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If he sucked as a WR as bad as many feel, his stats there would be abysmal.

I haven't heard/read anyone saying that he sucked, many just don't feel he is a #1 or even a #2 WR. At least that is how I see him. I think his overall skillset totals up to about, "average", in the NFL.

 

[tynimiller]

I haven't heard/read anyone saying that he sucked, many just don't feel he is a #1 or even a #2 WR. At least that is how I see him. I think his overall skillset totals up to about, "average", in the NFL.

A dependable wr2/wr3 costs you the money many are saying he isn’t worth however - that contradicts.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A dependable wr2/wr3 costs you the money many are saying he isn’t worth however - that contradicts.

I'd be more comfortable with having 2-3 WR's that are better than Lazard. Currently, the Packers don't, so yes, his value for them, might be higher. As well as for a few other teams.

Lazard is hitting free agency at a good time. There aren't a ton of quality WR's on the market and that should drive his value up, for teams like Green Bay, that don't even have a legit #1 or #2.

I also don't see Lazard's skill set improving a whole lot, so you wouldn't be paying him in the hope that he's trending up.

 

[Pkrjones]

A dependable wr2/wr3 costs you the money many are saying he isn’t worth however - that contradicts.

Not with the Packers current cap situation. When multiple players are being paid top-3 $ (QB, LT, LG, CB) and more due extensions (Gary) there's no way to pay a WR3 anywhere near $8-$11mil, IMHO.

 

[tynimiller]

Guys what I'm saying is not defending the concept of us paying that much, we shouldn't and won't without some VERY creative contract structure. We shouldn't resign him, but he absolutely should get $10M or so a year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Guys what I'm saying is not defending the concept of us paying that much, we shouldn't and won't without some VERY creative contract structure. We shouldn't resign him, but he absolutely should get $10M or so a year.

I would agree with "will probably" get $10M/year, but "absolutely should"...nah.

Then again, in a sport that now pays average players that much money, why not. I remember when John Elway signed a 5 year $5 million deal. A million a year for a football player!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Amen, Lazard when called on in some of the toughest moments for an offense to convert (third downs and fourth downs) makes things happen. If he sucked as a WR as bad as many feel, his stats there would be abysmal.

Just because I don't feel comfortable paying Lazard $10 million a season doesn't mean I believe he sucks. I don't believe he's worth that kind of money though.

A dependable wr2/wr3 costs you the money many are saying he isn’t worth however - that contradicts.

I prefer to have a #2 or #3 wide receiver capable of putting up numbers similar to Lazard on a rookie deal than overpaying for a player like him.

Guys what I'm saying is not defending the concept of us paying that much, we shouldn't and won't without some VERY creative contract structure. We shouldn't resign him, but he absolutely should get $10M or so a year.

There are currently only 37 wide receivers in the league making $10 million per season. As I don't believe Lazard is a top 40 WR I definitely disagree he absolutely should get that kind of money.

 

[tynimiller]

Folks, I guarantee many of you were like me, MVS was not worth his contract last year. Lazard will be more of the same this off season.

In this NFL Lazard absolutely should get $10m/yr. Most coaches, teams and organizations know he provides more than MVS, albeit not in the Homerun play area. This NFL says he should, not me.

I’m not paying Lazard that much, at least not justified - but I'm not going to pretend that the league itself and contracts made don't defend the idea it will happen.

 

[PackerDNA]

I would agree with "will probably" get $10M/year, but "absolutely should"...nah.

Then again, in a sport that now pays average players that much money, why not. I remember when John Elway signed a 5 year $5 million deal. A million a year for a football player!

The cap keeps going up, so will contracts. How about Reggie White 4 years 19 million? Jerry Kramer's biggest contract was $29,000 for one year. Crazy stuff and getting crazier every year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The cap keeps going up, so will contracts. How about Reggie White 4 years 19 million? Jerry Kramer's biggest contract was $29,000 for one year. Crazy stuff and getting crazier every year.

Yup, the fans just keep making them richer and as long as the money is there, NFL owners/players, will continue to extract it from them.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Folks, I guarantee many of you were like me, MVS was not worth his contract last year. Lazard will be more of the same this off season.

In this NFL Lazard absolutely should get $10m/yr. Most coaches, teams and organizations know he provides more than MVS, albeit not in the Homerun play area. This NFL says he should, not me.

I’m not paying Lazard that much, at least not justified.

Do you honestly consider Lazard a top 40 wide receiver in the league? I definitely don't, therefore he shouldn't be paid that kind of money.

 

[tynimiller]

Do you honestly consider Lazard a top 40 wide receiver in the league? I definitely don't, therefore he shouldn't be paid that kind of money.

Do you consider MVS as such? Again read my whole posts, this is not my personal opinion but based on what the contracts in the league are indicating.

 

[mradtke66]

How does that hurt a team later on? Ties up money in a player(s) that isn't proportionally helping the team. Imagine how many players the Giants could have used that $18M/year on to improve.

I think the benefit of 18M is negligible.

If you have drafted poorly, you don't have enough people worth extended.

If look outside the organization, you're going to be involved in some kind of bidding war. Your only real chance is to identify a player who is more valuable than others perceive him (Woodson) or just offer more money than anyone else (White.)

For the Giants specifically, you'd remove Golladay and still leave you with a huge hole at WR. So they sign a different wide receiver for similar money. You'd to have signed someone better, but it strikes me just as likely for the situation to have turned out roughly the same. Perhaps worse.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Do you consider MVS as such? Again read my whole posts, this is not my personal opinion but based on what the contracts in the league are indicating.

I think MVS actually brings quite a bit more to many offenses than Lazard does. MLF loves receivers that can block, many teams don't care about that. MVS opens up an offense with his speed (do you remember the constipated mess the Packers had the first half of the season without Watson) which is very valuable to many teams. Lazard is a very good 4th receiver/adequate third receiver who has been more valuable to the Packers because Gute let the skill positions on offense rot while attempting to build a defense that Barry could waste.

 

[tynimiller]

I think MVS actually brings quite a bit more to many offenses than Lazard does. MLF loves receivers that can block, many teams don't care about that. MVS opens up an offense with his speed (do you remember the constipated mess the Packers had the first half of the season without Watson) which is very valuable to many teams. Lazard is a very good 4th receiver/adequate third receiver who has been more valuable to the Packers because Gute let the skill positions on offense rot while attempting to build a defense that Barry could waste.

I guess his free agency will show whose more right. You view him as a 4th WR which is rarely someone that sees more than 15/20 snaps. I truthfully see him as a guy possibly getting your second most WR snaps, but probably production yards wise is your third highest but offers immense possession receiving plays.

 

[OldSchool101]

I have Lazard as a high end WR3 on the majority of teams.

The only reason he became our #1 target is lack of Receiving options for the Packers in 2022. Sammy Watkins never came anywhere close to expectation and wasn’t on the same page at all. That left a dinged up, aging Cobb and 2 Raw Rookies with upside. Lazard likely had the opportunity of a lifetime to flirt with 1,000 yards.

Put Allen on the bulk of teams and he’d still perform because most teams have a true WR1 or TE1 and Lazard would get matched up with the opponent Corner2-CB3. He’s a great WR3 with + blocking ability who can serve as a WR2 in a pinch. He slightly overachieved in 2022.

That said, until we see the throttle close at the WR position those WR are getting 115-135% of their true impact values.
8.75M X 1.25 (125%) etc.

 

[longtimefan]

MVS got paid by KC

Lazard is better. Who would want Pack to pay him 12 mill per?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you consider MVS as such? Again read my whole posts, this is not my personal opinion but based on what the contracts in the league are indicating.

I don't consider MVS to be a top 40 wide receiver in the league but there's an argument to be made that he's close to it. Lazard isn't in that category though.

With Lazard not having signed a contract it's currently your opinion that he deserves to be paid like one though.

I guess his free agency will show whose more right. You view him as a 4th WR which is rarely someone that sees more than 15/20 snaps. I truthfully see him as a guy possibly getting your second most WR snaps, but probably production yards wise is your third highest but offers immense possession receiving plays.

Lazard getting the second most snaps among wide receivers on a team indicates a lack of talent at the position.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I guess his free agency will show whose more right. You view him as a 4th WR which is rarely someone that sees more than 15/20 snaps. I truthfully see him as a guy possibly getting your second most WR snaps, but probably production yards wise is your third highest but offers immense possession receiving plays.

Yeah, and he only got so many snaps in Green Bay because the other options were awful. That's not a pro for Lazard, that's a con for Gute.

 

[tynimiller]

Yeah, and he only got so many snaps in Green Bay because the other options were awful. That's not a pro for Lazard, that's a con for Gute.

Who cares on grading out Gute...this is a discussion of what the league will state is their opinion on Lazard - we just are opposite thoughts is all. You're more he's a borderline #4 and I'm saying on right system or roster he's closer to a borderline #2....may sound like not a big difference but easily talking about $5-$8M a year difference which is significant. It will be very curious to hear about teams interested in him and just where his contract washes out.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Who cares on grading out Gute...this is a discussion of what the league will state is their opinion on Lazard - we just are opposite thoughts is all. You're more he's a borderline #4 and I'm saying on right system or roster he's closer to a borderline #2....may sound like not a big difference but easily talking about $5-$8M a year difference which is significant. It will be very curious to hear about teams interested in him and just where his contract washes out.

I wasn't trying to grade Gute, I was simply pointing out why I thought Lazard was so heavily used in Green Bay, the other options were bad. I will be shocked if a team gives Lazard a #2 receiver contract; he's basically a small TE without exceptional speed who doesn't win contested catches.

Although looking at contracts, Kendrick Bourne was the 48th highest avg $/year WR last season at $5m per year which I'm sure Lazard will get so the claim could be made that he's in the top 60 and therefore being paid like a #2 receiver. I don't believe that's a good argument but it's mathematically accurate.