Lazard Situation...

[Heyjoe4]

That record is pretty amazing and I have no explanation for it. As a side note, in the only game the Packers lost without Adams Rodgers played in he only threw five passes before DeShone Kizer took over and attempted 35 passes.



I agree that aside of wide receiver and tight end the Packers have an excellent, proven starting lineup.

The backups at most positions are a question mark at this point though.



If you aren't thrilled with the 2018 draft despite selecting an All-Pro cornerback you shouldn't be with the 2020 one either.

Agreed on WR/TE group uncertainty and the state of the backups. It just shows how hard it is to assemble a championship team, and probably why championship teams seldom repeat.

It's fine to have a great starting lineup, and the Packers have that for the most part. But what happens when injuries inevitably happen? I thought MLF did an admirable job last year devising game plans around a depleted roster at key positions. And some guys just stepped up and a few rookies played well. I'd rather he didn't have to do it again this year.......

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Too early agreed to judge 2020 too much

Correct you are.

I guess we could go back to the 2018 draft and repick all of the selections, based on what we know today and judge Gute using that criteria? Using that method, besides Alexander, Gute was the biggest buffoon in the NFL, than again, so were the other 31 GM's.

 

[tynimiller]

Correct you are.

I guess we could go back to the 2018 draft and repick all of the selections, based on what we know today and judge Gute using that criteria? Using that method, besides Alexander, Gute was the biggest buffoon in the NFL, than again, so were the other 31 GM's.

2018 was not just Jaire. MVS was a steal in the 5th based on what he was for us. Josh Jackson will forever be remembered as a bust (justifiably) however he also is one that nearly EVERY trustworthy pundit saw as a SOLID pick so I'll never say bad pick in the moment.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

2018 was not just Jaire. MVS was a steal in the 5th based on what he was for us. Josh Jackson will forever be remembered as a bust (justifiably) however he also is one that nearly EVERY trustworthy pundit saw as a SOLID pick so I'll never say bad pick in the moment.

I did say MVS was a good pick for a 5th rounder.

Once a player has left GB, whether cut, traded, retirement, free agency, etc. I prefer to end the draft class evaluation for what that player did while being a Packer. Now if you want to look at a Casey Hayward or Micah Hyde on an individual player basis and what they did in Green Bay and then for other team(s), that is a different discussion, for me. As is talking about whether the pick was a good one or not, at the time. I agree, at the time, Josh Jackson actually looked like a steal, since many had him going in the first round. So me saying "Josh Jackson was a terrible pick", is saying that combined with where he was drafted, the end result of his being a Packer, made him a terrible pick. Who knows, the guy could pull a "Rasul Douglas" and make a name for himself with another team this season. If he did, that still wouldn't change things for me on how I view him as a Packer draft pick.

One thing I will try to never do is say "Gute was a fricking idiot for drafting Jackson, since he could have drafted all these *insert names of players drafted after Jackson that have had a great 4 year career thus far*

 

[PikeBadger]

2 years too early to fully look at the 2020 draft class. Doing so would require too much speculation IMO.

As far as the 2018 class, Alexander was a great pick, MVS was more than you normally get for a 5th rounder, but is no longer with the team. The rest of the class either never played a single snap for the Packers or fizzled out quickly.

I'll let you talk about the 2020 class, since I know exactly where you will take the discussion. In 2 years, I'll be more than happy to look closer at it.

You might want to go back and chart Thompson's transactions the first 5 years and then compare it to Gutekunst's transactions his first 5 years to see if what you've stated is really true. The biggest difference in circumstances between the 2 GM's is that Gutekunst had to deal with the pandemic and the resulting drop in salary cap. The rest of the circumstances are very similar.

 

[Heyjoe4]

You might want to go back and chart Thompson's transactions the first 5 years and then compare it to Gutekunst's transactions his first 5 years to see if what you've stated is really true. The biggest difference in circumstances between the 2 GM's is that Gutekunst had to deal with the pandemic and the resulting drop in salary cap. The rest of the circumstances are very similar.

And Gluten was much more aggressive in FA. that contributed to all those 13-win seasons under MLF.

 

[PikeBadger]

Too early agreed to judge 2020 too much but I do safely make these proclamations:

Round 2 pick AJ Dillon appears to be absolutely worth such hefty draft equity some questioned at the time (myself to a degree I admit). Dude easily could end up being the "one player" you need at least each draft to not just be a roster guy or a solid depth but a bonafide special starter.

Runyan in Round 6 appears to be an absolute steal. Even if he would lose his starting spot this year (doubtful) to have a 6th rounder starting out the gate and holding on to it for two years (even with the injury depleted line) that is not something anyone should expect.

Jonathan Garvin in round 7 was an absolute steal...just how intense of a steal is still playing out, but the amount of quality snaps he's given quicker than anyone would have liked him to have to do has been impressive.

Lol, some questioned?!?!
It was mayhem and panic and gnashing of teeth here after the Dillon (and then Deguara) picks. I think that both "some" and "questioned" are very much an understatement but to your credit, you are much more diplomatic than I am.

 

[tynimiller]

Lol, some questioned?!?!
It was mayhem and panic and gnashing of teeth here after the Dillon (and then Deguara) picks. I think that both "some" and "questioned" are very much an understatement but to your credit, you are much more diplomatic than I am.

Not at all. I had a 2nd/3rd round grade on him personally, but felt he was a 3rd round target.

 

[Schultz]

I wasn't on the site back then so I will go on record now. I hated the Love pick, really disliked the Dillon pick and had total disdain for the DeGuarra selection.

 

[tynimiller]

I wasn't on the site back then so I will go on record now. I hated the Love pick, really disliked the Dillon pick and had total disdain for the DeGuarra selection.

Totally the wrong thread but I'm curious to unpack the Deguara hatred?

I like the Dillon pick was a massive fan of his but not at that round. Where does your disdain lie for the selection?

 

[Mondio]

I liked the Dillon pick, thought it was out best one after the draft.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I just don't think running backs in general are worth day 1 or 2 picks (running backs just don't provide the value that other positions do). The Deguara pick just baffled me; how many 6'2" tight ends out there are good tight ends? I can think of one, Jonnu Smith. Deguara is, if anything, a fullback and nobody can convince me that a fullback is worth a day 2 pick.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You might want to go back and chart Thompson's transactions the first 5 years and then compare it to Gutekunst's transactions his first 5 years to see if what you've stated is really true. The biggest difference in circumstances between the 2 GM's is that Gutekunst had to deal with the pandemic and the resulting drop in salary cap. The rest of the circumstances are very similar.

Are you referring to Free Agent signings? While Thompson was more active than people remember or give him credit for, I would say Gute has been more active and I think successful with his FA signings.

As far as drafting goes, like I said, way too early to evaluate Gutes 5 drafts, outside the 2018 one.

TT's major FA signings:

Position	Name	Contract Details	Year
DT	Ryan Pickett	Signed a four-year, $14 million contract	2006
CB	Charles Woodson	Signed a seven-year, $52.7 million contract	2006
LB	Brandon Chillar	Signed a two-year, $5 million contract	2008
C	Jeff Saturday	Signed a two-year, $7.75 million contract	2012
RB	Cedric Benson	Signed a one-year, $825,000 contract	2012
DE	Julius Peppers	Signed a three-year, $30 million contract	2014
DT	Letroy Guion	Signed a one-year, $825,000 contract	2014
TE	Jared Cook	Signed a one-year, $2.75 million contract	2016
TE	Martellus Bennett	Signed a three-year, $21 million contract	2017

 

[PikeBadger]

Are you referring to Free Agent signings? While Thompson was more active than people remember or give him credit for, I would say Gute has been more active and I think successful with his FA signings.

As far as drafting goes, like I said, way too early to evaluate Gutes 5 drafts, outside the 2018 one.

TT's major FA signings:

Position	Name	Contract Details	Year
DT	Ryan Pickett	Signed a four-year, $14 million contract	2006
CB	Charles Woodson	Signed a seven-year, $52.7 million contract	2006
LB	Brandon Chillar	Signed a two-year, $5 million contract	2008
C	Jeff Saturday	Signed a two-year, $7.75 million contract	2012
RB	Cedric Benson	Signed a one-year, $825,000 contract	2012
DE	Julius Peppers	Signed a three-year, $30 million contract	2014
DT	Letroy Guion	Signed a one-year, $825,000 contract	2014
TE	Jared Cook	Signed a one-year, $2.75 million contract	2016
TE	Martellus Bennett	Signed a three-year, $21 million contract	2017

I was referring to all transactions, drafts, free agents pickups of all types. Some of Thompson's best moves were not big name players but in-season transactions during the 2010 season when were getting bludgeoned by injuries in rapid succession.

 

[Mondio]

What about Ryan Grant? I suppose that was a beginning of season trade for a 6th? 7th? rounder

 

[Heyjoe4]

Not at all. I had a 2nd/3rd round grade on him personally, but felt he was a 3rd round target.

I don't know guys. I'm not kidding when I said I liked the Dillon pick when it was made, although I had to look into his history first cause I had never heard if the dude.

What impressed me was that he was an Eddy Lacy without the fat. (Remember that camp picture of Lacy where he looks like a 300 lb G?) I mean Dillon's waist is probably smaller than his quads. And there was no fat on him that I could see. Well sure, he probably has like 8 to 10% body fat, but for a guy that big, that's amazing.

I certainly didn't like the Love pick and enough has been said about that. I didn't like the Deguarra pick but he's growing on me. He ****ing better.

Other reasons Dillon made sense in rd 2 - 1) He wasn't gonna be there in rd 3, 2) he was a great insurance policy if Gluten couldn't come to terms with Jones. Later we found out he could catch the ball. My point - there were reasons to like him when he was picked, and more reasons appeared when he started to play.

 

[Schultz]

Totally the wrong thread but I'm curious to unpack the Deguara hatred?

I like the Dillon pick was a massive fan of his but not at that round. Where does your disdain lie for the selection?

It was the 3rd pick in a row that did nothing to address improving the team for the upcoming season. I can't remember now but I am sure there was a player I was high on at a position of what IMO was a need available at the time.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I just don't think running backs in general are worth day 1 or 2 picks (running backs just don't provide the value that other positions do). The Deguara pick just baffled me; how many 6'2" tight ends out there are good tight ends? I can think of one, Jonnu Smith. Deguara is, if anything, a fullback and nobody can convince me that a fullback is worth a day 2 pick.

Normally I agree with you on RBs. 3rd round should be the earliest. They have short shelf lives, and the Packers have proven that good backs can be found in rds 5 and 6.

But Dillon was an exception. Gluten saw it and it may be the only good pick he made in that draft. DeGuarra? Jury's out.

 

[tynimiller]

It was the 3rd pick in a row that did nothing to address improving the team for the upcoming season. I can't remember now but I am sure there was a player I was high on at a position of what IMO was a need available at the time.

So it was purely based on the upcoming season impact for you not the player, abilities or projection of him or his production - interesting and valid

 

[tynimiller]

Normally I agree with you on RBs. 3rd round should be the earliest. They have short shelf lives, and the Packers have proven that good backs can be found in rds 5 and 6.

But Dillon was an exception. Gluten saw it and it may be the only good pick he made in that draft. DeGuarra? Jury's out.

How is the jury out already on Deguara? He has played one season due to the injury his rookie year and closed out the second half of the season last year very nicely.

Will he turn into a guy I think justified a third honestly no. But he is projecting towards producing like a TE2 which isn’t terrible at all

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Normally I agree with you on RBs. 3rd round should be the earliest. They have short shelf lives, and the Packers have proven that good backs can be found in rds 5 and 6.

But Dillon was an exception. Gluten saw it and it may be the only good pick he made in that draft. DeGuarra? Jury's out.

Dillon is very good but I would take a running back 80% as good as Dillon on day 3 of the draft and be able to draft a more productive position in round 2. Keep in mind that running backs also have the shortest shelf life of any position. While I'm against running backs before day 3, I'm still glad the guy the Packers drafted has been so good.

 

[Mondio]

How is the jury out already on Deguara? He has played one season due to the injury his rookie year and closed out the second half of the season last year very nicely.

Will he turn into a guy I think justified a third honestly no. But he is projecting towards producing like a TE2 which isn’t terrible at all

because when a Jury is out, they're still deliberating. no consensus has been reached. When the Jury is in, then you know the verdict This jury is still out.

 

[tynimiller]

because when a Jury is out, they're still deliberating. no consensus has been reached. When the Jury is in, then you know the verdict This jury is still out.

LoL completely misread lol

 

[tynimiller]

Dillon is very good but I would take a running back 80% as good as Dillon on day 3 of the draft and be able to draft a more productive position in round 2. Keep in mind that running backs also have the shortest shelf life of any position. While I'm against running backs before day 3, I'm still glad the guy the Packers drafted has been so good.

2018 source but probably not crazy different…I was shocked that running backs weren’t the shortest by a lot in comparison to the second and third spot…

How Long Is the Average Career of an NFL Player?

The career of the average NFL player tends to be short. The National Football League is extremely competitive, so players must compete hard to keep their jobs against new players entering the league every year. The injury rate among NFL players is also extremely high.

careertrend.com

 

[Heyjoe4]

How is the jury out already on Deguara? He has played one season due to the injury his rookie year and closed out the second half of the season last year very nicely.

Will he turn into a guy I think justified a third honestly no. But he is projecting towards producing like a TE2 which isn’t terrible at all

Don't get me wrong, he showed great progress last year and did have the ACL tear. So I think it's fair to say "the jury's out" until he puts a complete season together and gets to that TE2 position. It's just a saying and I meant to say "we need to see more."