Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez

Pokerbrat2000

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Not an excuse for BM's play at all, but I honestly didn't even notice Goodson on the field until the 3rd quarter, he was THAT invisible.


Goodson only played 7 snaps (all second half I believe) and I think it was Pettine's last ditch effort to stop the bleeding that was happening in the center of the field.

I get your notion that Blake M. isn't all that good, but as I have said in other posts, I think a lot of that has to do with the guys playing around him. The DL wasn't particularly good last night and Casper the Friendly Ghost was playing next to Blake at the other ILB spot.

Will this get fixed when Burks comes back? Maybe a bit, but I think its over relying on the idea that a 2nd year player, that wasn't all that great at the position in his first year, is all of a sudden going to be a solid starter.
 

GleefulGary

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Goodson only played 7 snaps (all second half I believe) and I think it was Pettine's last ditch effort to stop the bleeding that was happening in the center of the field.

I get your notion that Blake M. isn't all that good, but as I have said in other posts, I think a lot of that has to do with the guys playing around him. The DL wasn't particularly good last night and Casper the Friendly Ghost was playing next to Blake at the other ILB spot.

Will this get fixed when Burks comes back? Maybe a bit, but I think its over relying on the idea that a 2nd year player, that wasn't all that great at the position in his first year, is all of a sudden going to be a solid starter.

What do the guys around him have to do with his inability to take on blocks?

What do the guys around him have to do with his poor pass coverage?

What, pray tell, is he actually good at?

I think he's got a great knowledge of the scheme. Smart player. Slow. Doesn't attack downfield well. Gets washed out too easily. Doesn't take on blocks well. Pass coverage is subpar. Meh speed. Rarely ever makes an impact play.

So tell me, what does that have to do with the guy next to him?
 

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The DL wasn't particularly good last night and Casper the Friendly Ghost was playing next to Blake at the other ILB spot.
I agree with this. More later

Look guys, the Packers' run defense was exposed on Thursday night and it's frustrating but, I still believe this defense is much better than last year and a whole lot better than the later Capers defenses. It's still a passing league and this is one of the best pass defenses I've seen here in a long time and Blake Martinez is one of the reasons. I'm not smart enough to know about salary cap considerations and such but, I'd like to see him extended! My earlier comments about the need for more stout ILBs is a plea for a complement to Martinez rather than a replacement. Burks and Martinez have very similar skills.

Rashan Gary might as well change his name to Rashan Smith as he is a physical twin of the Smiths. AT THE MOMENT, the pick of Gary in the 1st round looks puzzling in light of Gute's dip into the free agent market. That doesn't mean I don't like Gary as he has Myles Garrett potential. A reminder: he's a very young rookie as was Kenny Clark. However, as Pokerbrat mentioned, we have enough "stop the run on the way to the quarterback" types in the front seven. What is needed is a few "read, react, and fill the gaps" types in the DL. I'm hoping the wake-up call against the Eagles will lead to an attitude change during this mini-bye week. Also, I want to see more Montravius Adams and less Dean Lowry. Bottom line folks, I'll take 3-1 every month in this division!
 

Pokerbrat2000

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What do the guys around him have to do with his inability to take on blocks?

What do the guys around him have to do with his poor pass coverage?

What, pray tell, is he actually good at?

I think he's got a great knowledge of the scheme. Smart player. Slow. Doesn't attack downfield well. Gets washed out too easily. Doesn't take on blocks well. Pass coverage is subpar. Meh speed. Rarely ever makes an impact play.

So tell me, what does that have to do with the guy next to him?

What do the guys around Martinez have to do with how he plays? Are you kidding with this question? Defense isn't a man on man thing. If your DL isn't taking on blockers, maintaining their lanes and allowing the ILB's to stay relatively clean, you are probably screwed. If the OL can free up a player to take out your ILB, even worse . If you have 2 ILB's and one of them isn't covering their area, you are screwed. We have seen a combination of all 3 things this season. Blake Martinez isn't a Pro Bowl player, but he isn't as bad of a player as you want to think, he just needs a few better players around him, one next to him and one in front of him.
 
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What do the guys around Martinez have to do with how he plays? Are you kidding with this question? Defense isn't a man on man thing. If your DL isn't taking on blockers, maintaining their lanes and allowing the ILB's to stay relatively clean, you are probably screwed. If the OL can free up a player to take out your ILB, even worse . If you have 2 ILB's and one of them isn't covering their area, you are screwed. We have seen a combination of all 3 things this season. Blake Martinez isn't a Pro Bowl player, but he isn't as bad of a player as you want to think, he just needs a few better players around him, one next to him and one in front of him.
I truly believe that if Blake played adjacent to a “Roquon Smith” type he’s going to completely hold his own. He can’t cover the entire middle alone, there’s maybe 5 or so ILB’s in this league that can be entrusted with that type responsibility.

These fans labeling him as poor after watching him take on 2 FT jobs is a knee jerk reaction out of frustration. They called him out, so I’m calling them out.
 
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My earlier comments about the need for more stout ILBs is a plea for a complement to Martinez rather than a replacement. Burks and Martinez have very similar skills.

Martinez and Burks have opposing skill sets that might complement each other pretty well if Burks is able to perform at a decent level. Unfortunately I'm not convinced about him being able to do that.
 

GleefulGary

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What do the guys around Martinez have to do with how he plays? Are you kidding with this question? Defense isn't a man on man thing. If your DL isn't taking on blockers, maintaining their lanes and allowing the ILB's to stay relatively clean, you are probably screwed. If the OL can free up a player to take out your ILB, even worse . If you have 2 ILB's and one of them isn't covering their area, you are screwed. We have seen a combination of all 3 things this season. Blake Martinez isn't a Pro Bowl player, but he isn't as bad of a player as you want to think, he just needs a few better players around him, one next to him and one in front of him.

Yeah, you didn't actually respond to anything I said. Read it again, and try again.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Yeah, you didn't actually respond to anything I said. Read it again, and try again.

I'm all set. You obviously didn't understand my answer or anyone else's and how it relates to your assumptions and conclusions that you draw from them. :coffee:
 

TomBrownFan40

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Martinez and Burks have opposing skill sets that might complement each other pretty well if Burks is able to perform at a decent level. Unfortunately I'm not convinced about him being able to do that.

OK, I should have said physical attributes instead of skills:

Oren Burks: Age:24 6'3" 233 lbs
Blake Martinez: Age:25 6'2" 237 lbs
 

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Blake did not have a good game. So many of the big plays the Eagles had, he was in the wash, running the wrong way, or completely neutralized by a blocker. Even when he had a free run to hit the RB at the 1, the RB won for the TD. He got taken out by a "pick" play on that Howard pass down the left sideline and that was clearly his man left wide open. It happens, but so many other plays he just didn't look good at all last game and when presented with opportunities to make good plays, he didn't make those this game either, which only made it worse.

oh, and Light had a terrible game. WOW. Now I know why we struggled later in the game.
 

GleefulGary

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I'm all set. You obviously didn't understand my answer or anyone else's and how it relates to your assumptions and conclusions that you draw from them. :coffee:

Lol.

I didn't ask what the guys in front of him have to do with his play. I've talked about that, A LOT. They're the reason he accumulates stats.

What I asked, was what the guy lined up next to him has to do with inability to take on blocks. Then I asked, specifically, what it is that he does well. As in, what makes him an above-average or upper tier LB? Because if he can't succeed without really good players around him, then, he just ain't that good. He shouldn't be any teams best LB, and we certainly shouldn't pay him like he is.
 

GleefulGary

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Let's try this again:

What impact plays does Blake make?

How often does he successfully shed a block and make a play downhill?

That's what good LB's do. Our LB's don't do that.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Let's try this again:

What impact plays does Blake make?

How often does he successfully shed a block and make a play downhill?

That's what good LB's do. Our LB's don't do that.

Guessing you are basing your opinion on one game, the last one. If that is how you want to evaluate players, I can't stop you, not many of the Packers had a good game on Thursday night, should we start looking for their replacements too?

After 3 games this year, here is a little bit better evaluation and less narrow minded opinion of Blake than the one you have. Once again, if you do not see how talent around an ILB effects their play, I can't do much more to help you out.

https://www.packers.com/news/blake-martinez-excelling-as-packers-field-general-on-defense
 

Mondio

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I do see how talent affects it and I think Blake benefits greatly by the talent in front of him and if they aren't excelling at their jobs, he doesn't look good at his. If they're just doing ok at their jobs, he will look somewhere around average or lower. There are players that make others look better and players that need others to make them look good. I think Blake is more in the latter category.

He's not a scrub, but if he's behind an average defensive line, he's like every other starting ILB out there or worse. I'm not using just the last game to judge him. I've felt he's overrated here for quite a while. But I don't like to argue it too much, because he's not a terrible player or something and I don't want it to sound like that's what I'm saying, but He doesn't make many plays that are impact plays. And the few he makes are generally because the people around him allowed to happen. I have rarely seen him play downhill, beat a guy and make a play.

Lots of chase tackles or open to a runner. If that's all you can make, it's solid, but it's not any better than average really. and he had an open shot to stop a RB at the 1, and didn't. those plays stand out to me and it's not the only one.
 

Heyjoe4

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Lets get some extensions going for these two. The Pack does have a few nice young players. Just trying to stay positive. I really like these two young players.
I’m ok extending Clark, in fact, it s/b a priority. As for Martinez, extend him if the value is there. He’s a great tackler, but a lot of those tackles are downfield.
 

GleefulGary

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Guessing you are basing your opinion on one game, the last one. If that is how you want to evaluate players, I can't stop you, not many of the Packers had a good game on Thursday night, should we start looking for their replacements too?

After 3 games this year, here is a little bit better evaluation and less narrow minded opinion of Blake than the one you have. Once again, if you do not see how talent around an ILB effects their play, I can't do much more to help you out.

https://www.packers.com/news/blake-martinez-excelling-as-packers-field-general-on-defense

Yes, my opinion is clearly based on the last game! Which is why I've been saying the same things about Blake the past two years. It's easy to find, if you want.

I'll ask you again: how does the player next to Blake affect his ability (or lack thereof) to take on blocks? How does the player next to Blake affect his poor coverage IN HIS OWN ZONE?

Lastly, you cited an article from the official Packers website. Do you truly think that's less biased than me? Like...do you think they're going to say anything bad?! Wes Hod isn't a bad writer, but he's being paid to be a puff piece writer for the Packers!


I've said it for the past two years, and I'll continue to say it. Blake is an average LB. He's mediocre in coverage. He's mediocre at shedding blocks. He's got below average speed. He's a smart player, knows the playbook and well and communicates well. He shoots unblocked gaps pretty well. He rarely makes plays behind the LOS that are not schemed.

Now, instead of finding things to refute anything I say, you just talk about his teammates. Which, really, is exactly my point! He only succeeds when those around him do well. He's a product of those around him, not a playmaker. He's fine as a #2 LB, but he shouldn't be a #1, and he shouldn't be paid like it.

Now, I will say (and have said) that he's playing better than he did last year. But still, I just don't think he's anything better than average.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Didn't want to start a whole new thread on him, since he is 1/2 this thread. But curious to get other peoples opinion of Kenny Clark this season.

Is it just me or does he seem to be having an off year? Contract year for him too. If he is having an off year, is he playing not to get injured, playing safe, so he doesn't lose out on a big second contract? Haven't focused a lot on him, but seems like he has been pretty quiet and kind of a non-factor.
 

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Didn't want to start a whole new thread on him, since he is 1/2 this thread. But curious to get other peoples opinion of Kenny Clark this season.

Is it just me or does he seem to be having an off year? Contract year for him too. If he is having an off year, is he playing not to get injured, playing safe, so he doesn't lose out on a big second contract? Haven't focused a lot on him, but seems like he has been pretty quiet and kind of a non-factor.
the game is won in the trenches and on both sides of the ball we are not strong. the smith brothers can only do so much on defence. even on the offensive of side of the ball we get pressured on 4 man pass rush easily.
 

Dantés

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Didn't want to start a whole new thread on him, since he is 1/2 this thread. But curious to get other peoples opinion of Kenny Clark this season.

Is it just me or does he seem to be having an off year? Contract year for him too. If he is having an off year, is he playing not to get injured, playing safe, so he doesn't lose out on a big second contract? Haven't focused a lot on him, but seems like he has been pretty quiet and kind of a non-factor.

He's been on the injury report a time or two. I am assuming that he's playing through an injury. That's the only thing that makes sense.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Up until tonight I think he’s been having a pretty good year.


Yeah I think people looking to evaluate players solely on their performance today are looking in the wrong place. I am hoping we will be able to look back and call today an anomaly. If nothing else a great teaching moment of what happens when you walk on to a field and expect to win. Motivation to practice and prepare harder for each and every game.

However, with Clark I am looking at his whole season. He started out strong, but seems to have slid backwards or something. Again, I don't keep a close eye on him and he isn't a guy that is suppose to be getting the big stats and splashy plays, but just seems like whatever is happening between the tackles on defense has really gotten soft and he might be a part of that?

I can see a situation when a player like him is on the brink of a big pay day, doing anything and everything he can to avoid injury. Probably not the case, but could be.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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He's been on the injury report a time or two. I am assuming that he's playing through an injury. That's the only thing that makes sense.


So I am not crazy and his play has dropped off? Again, this is just a gut feel, I don't have any stats, facts or film to back it up.
 
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