Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez

[Mondio]

good for their rankings, if I had to put players on the field right now today? Kendricks, Barr, and most definitely R.Smith would be take well ahead of Martinez. he's solid give or take depending on a play. I can't believe anyone, after seeing the Bears up close and personal would think Martinez is better than Smith, and he's only in year 2.

 

[Mondio]

PFF grades are trash. They prove weekly that they really don't know what they're doing.

Ironically enough, someone just posted a PFF graphic proving this.

 

[gbgary]

PFF grades are trash. They prove weekly that they really don't know what they're doing.

fine.

 

[felix145]

PFF grades are trash. They prove weekly that they really don't know what they're doing.

I always thought PFF grades are at least a little bit reliable, but I've seen today that Jaire is on #53, because he had a penalty and was partially responsible for a TD. This is insane.

 

[Dantés]

fine.

Not saying Martinez isn't good or that they shouldn't make an effort to keep him. But I'm sure as shooting not going to try to use PFF to make that case. They are be-clowning themselves weekly. I've never been a big fan, but it's been worse than ever this season. I am wondering if they've diluted their pool of qualified analysts by growing so fast.

 

[greengold]

hmmm. I liked PFF for a while. Haven’t renewed my subscription though. I like gathering info from multiple sources to get a more open minded opinion.

The eye test is best.

 

[GleefulGary]

Kenny Clark is elite, and is gonna get paid.

Blake Martinez is solid. He started out good against the Vikings, but he was gassed in the 4th. He accumulates a lot of tackles because of scheme, and who he plays behind. Seriously, Kenny Clark makes Martinez a much better player than what he really is. He just doesn't make a lot of plays at the LOS, although I will say I think he looks better this year than he has before.

I really hate the idea of paying him a lot of money, but I'm not real sure we have another choice.

 

[gbgary]

Not saying Martinez isn't good or that they shouldn't make an effort to keep him. But I'm sure as shooting not going to try to use PFF to make that case. They are be-clowning themselves weekly. I've never been a big fan, but it's been worse than ever this season. I am wondering if they've diluted their pool of qualified analysts by growing so fast.

i hear ya but the thing about pff is they're consistent. they apply the same standard for everyone without bias. as mentioned above this particular week alexander is rated low but it's early in the year and one bad play can affect things. by the end of the year you'll have a fair, overall, assessment.

 

[Dantés]

i hear ya but the thing about pff is they're consistent. they apply the same standard for everyone without bias. as mentioned above this particular week alexander is rated low but it's early in the year and one bad play can affect things. by the end of the year you'll have a fair, overall, assessment.

I actually totally reject that. It's not the same person or even same small group of people assessing each game.

I also don't know what consistency is supposed to do for me if it's consistency of stupidity.

 

[Dantés]

Kenny Clark is elite, and is gonna get paid.

Blake Martinez is solid. He started out good against the Vikings, but he was gassed in the 4th. He accumulates a lot of tackles because of scheme, and who he plays behind. Seriously, Kenny Clark makes Martinez a much better player than what he really is. He just doesn't make a lot of plays at the LOS, although I will say I think he looks better this year than he has before.

I really hate the idea of paying him a lot of money, but I'm not real sure we have another choice.

They could always sign a bridge guy and draft someone if he wants silly money.

 

[gbgary]

They could always sign a bridge guy and draft someone if he wants silly money.

but the bridge guy, if he's as good as martinez, will be the same price as martinez...and if he isn't they've downgraded an already dicey position group. i think martinez has them over a barrel.

 

[GleefulGary]

They could always sign a bridge guy and draft someone if he wants silly money.

They could, but the window with Rodgers isn't huge.

Or maybe he'll play well til he's 40 and I'm full of it.

 

[GleefulGary]

but the bridge guy, if he's as good as martinez, will be the same price as martinez...and if he isn't they've downgraded an already dicey position group. i think martinez has them over a barrel.

Not necessarily.

Martinez is propped up by good teammates, ie, he's not as good as his stats make him look.

An older vet on a small deal could easy by cheaper and provide similar output.

 

[gbgary]

Not necessarily.

Martinez is propped up by good teammates, ie, he's not as good as his stats make him look.

An older vet on a small deal could easy by cheaper and provide similar output.

last year was his best year and he had arguably the worst group of guys around him...matthews, perry, no safeties, compared to this year.

 

[GleefulGary]

last year was his best year and he had arguably the worst group of guys around him...matthews, perry, no safeties, compared to this year.

Oh? And tell me Gary, how would the safeties impact the majority of what Martinez does? The only argument for CM3 and Perry would be how they set the edge, which Perry was actually decent at, in terms of impacting Martinez.

Martinez benefits from having an outstanding DL in front of him that occupies blockers so he doesn't have to take on any/very few. Watch a game, and see how much Martinez can flow freely because he doesn't have to worry about OL on the second level. That, my friend, is how this team makes him look better than what he is. It's all the DL in front of him.

 

[Mondio]

last year was his best year and he had arguably the worst group of guys around him...matthews, perry, no safeties, compared to this year.

This must be why you're often wrong, you don't seem to understand football

Perry didn't even play for all intents and purposes, and OLB's are impt, but not nearly as important as Clark, Daniels, Lowery, Adams and while we're adding useless names, Mo Wilkerson, to the play of an ILB. The play behind him is better for sure, but they shouldn't be making him look better or worse if he's doing his job in the middle really. and are you assuming he'll have a worse year this year now that the players are better all around him?

 

[gbgary]

so the defense as a whole, and the players around martinez in particular, aren't better than last year's group when he had his best year...and for that matter the year before (when he also had a very good year). ok.

 

[Mondio]

so the defense as a whole, and the players around martinez in particular, aren't better than last year's group when he had his best year...and for that matter the year before (when he also had a very good year). ok.

so again you miss all the important stuff.

 

[GleefulGary]

so the defense as a whole, and the players around martinez in particular, aren't better than last year's group when he had his best year...and for that matter the year before (when he also had a very good year). ok.

Did you actually read what was said, or are you ignoring the words like you think Rodgers ignores WR's?

 

[gbgary]

so again you miss all the important stuff.

glee said his great teammates made him better. i'm saying they haven't been that great and he'll be even better this year. safeties coming down in the box do affect his play. we're better this year in that respect. better olb's/edges and hopefully at least a wash in the dt dept this year should make his year even better than the last two where he was very good.
who disagrees with this?

 

[GleefulGary]

It's like talking to a brick wall.

 

[Mondio]

glee said his great teammates made him better. i'm saying they haven't been that great and he'll be even better this year. safeties coming down in the box do affect his play. we're better this year in that respect. better olb's/edges and hopefully at least a wash in the dt dept this year should make his year even better than the last two where he was very good.
who disagrees with this?

you haven't been paying to the careers of Mike Daniels or the Evolution of the beast kenny Clark, or the play of Dean Lowry. Safeties coming down in the box might help the run defense, they aren't going to help him per say, the DLine does and when he's free he does a good job. He mostly runs around free. The guys in front of him are good, they were good. Our defense mostly suffered because of all the openings in the back end. The improvements on the back end will greatly help the defense of which Martinez is a part of, but they aren't really helping him look better as a player on a personal level.

If you watch Martinez, he's a solid player and he benefits greatly from our Dline, that for some reason you don't think is that good? or maybe you do which is why you brought up safeties and Perry and Matthews, the players least likely to have an influence over how he looks? I'm not sure what you're getting at?

 

[Dantés]

so the defense as a whole, and the players around martinez in particular, aren't better than last year's group when he had his best year...and for that matter the year before (when he also had a very good year). ok.

The point is that Martinez has had strong defensive line play in front of him, making his life a lot easier. This has been true even when the defense as a whole hasn't been playing particularly well.

To illustrate this point, look at Dalvin Cook's 75 yard touchdown. The interior defensive linemen were Tyler Lancaster and Montravius Adams. Lancaster is blocked out of his gap by the center without help, and Adams is essentially sealed off by the right tackle. This allows the right guard to climb to the second level without being impeded or needed elsewhere. He completely takes Martinez out of the play.

When Clark and Lancaster are playing in front of Martinez, that isn't happening.

 

[gbgary]

you haven't been paying to the careers of Mike Daniels or the Evolution of the beast kenny Clark, or the play of Dean Lowry. Safeties coming down in the box might help the run defense, they aren't going to help him per say, the DLine does and when he's free he does a good job. He mostly runs around free. The guys in front of him are good, they were good. Our defense mostly suffered because of all the openings in the back end. The improvements on the back end will greatly help the defense of which Martinez is a part of, but they aren't really helping him look better as a player on a personal level.

If you watch Martinez, he's a solid player and he benefits greatly from our Dline, that for some reason you don't think is that good? or maybe you do which is why you brought up safeties and Perry and Matthews, the players least likely to have an influence over how he looks? I'm not sure what you're getting at?

what? i was worried about the loss of daniels (see daniels thread). we all know how great clark is. lowery gets better every year, some of the others too. that's why i said i hoped the DT's are at least a wash after the loss of daniels. a much better D-line as a whole (which, vs run, includes edges/olbs) should make his east/west pursuit job easier. i think our front 6-7 this year, as a whole, are way better the last two years. martinez should thrive.

 

[GleefulGary]

what? i was worried about the loss of daniels (see daniels thread). we all know how great clark is. lowery gets better every year, some of the others too. that's why i said i hoped the DT's are at least a wash after the loss of daniels. a much better D-line as a whole (which, vs run, includes edges/olbs) should make his east/west pursuit job easier. i think our front 6-7 this year, as a whole, are way better the last two years. martinez should thrive.

Nobody is saying Martinez is playing bad.

What I'm saying is that Martinez isn't as good as his stats make him look because his teammates elevate his play. I don't know if I'd say the opposite is true.

I just don't want to pay him top tier money, when he's not a top tier ILB.