Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez

[HardRightEdge]

This has probably been posted before. Consider it a refresher:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/inside-linebacker/

Burks: 38 defensive snaps in the last 5 games, virtually invisible.

Goodson and Burks have combined for 25 defensive snaps in the last two games one of which involved the dire threat posed by Matt Moore.

Down 15 with a faint glimmer of hope with 6:21 to go with SD on their own 35, Pettine opted for Martinez alone in single ILB sets. He couldn't even see fit to put a DB in the box who wasn't following a motion receiver. You knew San Diego would run the ball to burn clock, run and burn they did, a foregone conclusion.

I said "burn the tape", but this has been bugging me. It's like Pettine threw in the towel wanting to avoid the big play in order to keep the score down. Mission accomplished! The "Money Badger" missed the 44 yard FG!

Whatever Martinez's shortfalls in the run game, it might actually help to try do something about it when the run is obvious.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I thought this was a pretty good write up about Martinez, his issues and his future.

https://dairylandexpress.com/2019/11/07/green-bay-packers-blake-martinez-era-end/

 

[rodell330]

I like Kenny Clark don’t get me wrong..but it seems as tho he’s taken a step back. I don’t see him blowing up plays in the backfield and being a big factor in the run game as much as I’d like to on a consistent basis. He isn’t even commanding a double team. I’ve always said he’s probably more suited to play a DE role in this scheme vs DT. They definitely need to address that D line in the off-season.

 

[GleefulGary]

For about the 50th time, he's hurt and playing too many snaps.

 

[Dblbogey]

Well, this was a short discussion as GleefulGary summed it up concisely.

 

[gbgary]

For about the 50th time, he's hurt and playing too many snaps.

leading the league for dt's actually...with no one of consequence next to him also.

 

[greengold]

Clark has the most snaps played of any DL in the NFL, plus, he's played through 2 injuries. Personally, I think he's being overused, and should get a breather from that high snap round. Figure Montravius Adams was out with an injury early, accounting for high snap counts a bit I would imagine. Hoping to get a bigger dose of Adams and Keke moving forward to spell him a bit.

Injuries to the legs, the wheels, has an effect on any lineman on either side of the ball. Clark could use a rest. The bye will be welcome.

 

[XPack]

I thought this was a pretty good write up about Martinez, his issues and his future.

https://dairylandexpress.com/2019/11/07/green-bay-packers-blake-martinez-era-end/

Doesn't look good at all. I think he will get better in FA than with us and we won't offer anything that'd make him want to stay here. ILB would be a priority draft/FA then making another year with a high defensive pick

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Decent article on Kenny Clark and why his production is down this season. The Packers are definitely going to need to get him some help on the DL next year and I don't know if that is going to be in the form of Lowery, Keke, Lancaster or Adams, none of them seem to be getting much done this year. Lowery was signed to a pretty significant contract though, so can't see him not being on the roster in 2020. Would be great if one of the younger guys stepped up, so the Packers don't have to invest more resources into a Defense that definitely is in dire need of help at ILB.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...-solid-despite-more-attention-from-opponents/

 

[Mavster]

Clark is in a tough spot.

He's the only good dlineman we have on the roster. You don't play him and that position group is completely awful. Hence why he's always on the dang field.

Pettine needs to figure something out quick.

 

[Mondio]

Decent article on Kenny Clark and why his production is down this season. The Packers are definitely going to need to get him some help on the DL next year and I don't know if that is going to be in the form of Lowery, Keke, Lancaster or Adams, none of them seem to be getting much done this year. Lowery was signed to a pretty significant contract though, so can't see him not being on the roster in 2020. Would be great if one of the younger guys stepped up, so the Packers don't have to invest more resources into a Defense that definitely is in dire need of help at ILB.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...-solid-despite-more-attention-from-opponents/

Montravious has been his normal self, teases with talent, but not really making any impact. I think Lowery is having a good year and is doing his job for the most part on that line. I don't think Lancaster has improved really, he was a nice surprise last year, but you have to develop and improve and I don't think he has. He's not bad, he's going to be on a roster and play his role, but it's just a role.

I do think Keke will be a good player for us, but he has to develop, years 2 and 3 are going to be much better for him I think.

and for all of you Big Mike fans, he wasn't going to help either. We'd be paying him 10 million dollars to rehab his foot, which was the reason he was cut in the first place. It's still the right move.

 

[HardRightEdge]

2011 Similarities:

• Injuries not withstanding, Clark's productivity has fallen off with three seasons of high snap counts as with Raji who never again provided the impact of his first two season.
• Hawk followed his very solid 2010, earning a new contract, with the beginning of his decline, hanging back for mop up tackling and exploited in coverage.
• ***-for-tat big plays on offense and defense if not so extreme in 2019.
• The 2011 defense held it together with 38 takeaways making for a +28 turnover differential while the red zone performance was mediocre but at least better than the large chunks of air yardage surrendered. The 2019 defense splits the difference: not as many turnovers as that route-jumping, ball-yanking group but with better red zone performance.
• In both cases the winning looks somewhat suspect from the standpoint of how repeatable it can be in the playoffs.

 

[GleefulGary]

Lowry* is okay. Nothing special.

I think the Adams experiment has reached it's end. He gets washed out too easily.

Lancaster is pretty meh. Decent backup.

KeKe flashes. He needs to improve, or he'll go down the same road as Adams. Sometimes he looks like our best interior pass rusher, other times he's on the ground.

I'd like to see more talent added there next year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

For anybody who plans to watch LSU vs. Alabama tomorrow you might want to keep an eye on:

• Jacob Phillips, one of LSU's 3-4 ILBs. He's a Junior but might be coming out.

• Anfernee Jennings, one of Alabama's 4-3 OLBs ("Jack" LB), who is getting at least one mention as a possible ILB projection.

 

[Mondio]

I never spell his name right, and it's not even on purpose.

I don't think Keke goes down the Adams path, i see much better effort. He'll have to learn to keep his feet, leverage and gain some more strength, but I think he's going to be pretty good for us down the line.

We do need to add some to the group next year though, i agree. Adams isn't going to be what they thought or hoped for. lancaster never moved past what he was and Dean is good for what he is, but not a difference maker. I will now call him Dean, I can probably manage that most times.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I never spell his name right, and it's not even on purpose.

You mean this guy?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

As for myself, I keep thinking it's Keke Kingsley, not the other way around, and it took me about 5 years to spell Bakhtiari without looking it up first.

I don't expect much, but "defence" in a thread title, as in "Mike Pettine's Defence", is sad.

 

[Pkrjones]

He doesn't get many snaps in Chicago but I like Nick Kwiatkoski at ILB and see that he's a 27 yr old UFA in '20. Time to find some tape on the guy...

 

[greengold]

I agree with this and I don't think that the Packers currently have players on their roster that are going to fair any better than Blake. All due respect, to the posters thinking Ty Summers is the immediate answer, I highly doubt it. Nor do they have someone currently on the team that will probably be better on the DL to keep blockers off of Blake. So with the Trade Deadline passing, the Packers are left with trying to get better internally or try to find someone on the street or another teams PS to improve the DL and/or ILB. My guess is they will stay pat, unless there is an injury or 2.

As frustrating as it was for me to watch the Packers open the season with the current ILB's and Safeties to play the hybrid, I think they will have to ride it out in 2019 with Martinez. Hope Clark gets healthier, hybrid S's can help and the rest of the guys upfront do a better job of keeping BM clean.

Hey Pokerbrat2000, I understand Ty had ONE horrific preseason game for all the Packer world to see v. BAL, but, should that one bad day make him a non consideration?

Ty did wind up leading the NFL in tackles during preseason play despite having one of the poorest showings of his career. He also had a pick 6. He is definitely on the same level as Martinez intellectually and motivationally, calling the D for TCU 3 out of 4 years, and TCU is highly regarded by NFL DCs. I strongly believe Ty’s instincts at the position are better than Blake’s. And, Ty plays with a fierce motor.

If you look at his stats in comparison to both Devins who were top draft picks, they are quite similar. He’s a former QB who understands coverages, never played LB prior to his agreeing to play there on scholarship.

Dips in his Junior & Senior year stats were due to his heavy involvement playing DE due to his versatility and athleticism, and injuries TCU suffered there. Look at his Sophomore year stats at TCU where he played nothing but ILB in just his 2nd year for his pure stats at the position. Only player other than Gary to have ELITE scores in both SPARQ & RAS. Ty is a superior athlete.

I think it is quite possible Ty Summers would provide us better ILB play, and I don’t see any harm in trying him there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hey Pokerbrat2000, I understand Ty had ONE horrific preseason game for all the Packer world to see v. BAL, but, should that one bad day make him a non consideration?

I think it is quite possible Ty Summers would provide us better ILB play, and I don’t see any harm in trying him there.

I like yours and others optimism on Ty Summers, but there is a reason he was a 7th round pick in the 2019 draft, he was lacking skills to be viewed as an instant starter. This isn't saying that he someday won't develop into a good player, just that he probably isn't ready to be one in his rookie season. I don't get too excited over preseason stats, so many factors can contribute to a guy looking great in preseason and then terrible when the best players in the NFL are out there against him.

As far as the harm in trying him. I think the odds of seeing him play in the regular season similar to how he played in Baltimore are probably higher than what we saw at other times in preseason. So the harm would be having worse results than what we see out of Martinez.

If the Packers are ever involved in a blow out this season, it is than that I wouldn't mind seeing Ty playing against better players, to see what he can do at the next level.

 

[greengold]

He doesn't get many snaps in Chicago but I like Nick Kwiatkoski at ILB and see that he's a 27 yr old UFA in '20. Time to find some tape on the guy...

He’s got some game Joneser...

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[greengold]

I like yours and others optimism on Ty Summers, but there is a reason he was a 7th round pick in the 2019 draft, he was lacking skills to be viewed as an instant starter. This isn't saying that he someday won't develop into a good player, just that he probably isn't ready to be one in his rookie season. I don't get too excited over preseason stats, so many factors can contribute to a guy looking great in preseason and then terrible when the best players in the NFL are out there against him.

As far as the harm in trying him. I think the odds of seeing him play in the regular season similar to how he played in Baltimore are probably higher than what we saw at other times in preseason. So the harm would be having worse results than what we see out of Martinez.

If the Packers are ever involved in a blow out this season, it is than that I wouldn't mind seeing Ty playing against better players, to see what he can do at the next level.

Yeah, I can understand that rationale, but, aren’t we suffering much the same, willingly, with Martinez, who is virtually a non-factor in coverage or in stopping runs at or behind the LOS?

That’s where I’m coming from. We are currently near the bottom of the NFL on D over the last 6 games, and much of that can be pinned on our failures in the middle.

I’d rather throw Ty in, and let him learn at a higher level. Maybe we get more of those hustle plays we all have been looking for.

Not like keeping Blake there will improve our greatest weaknesses on D. I mean, we must improve there to have a legit chance. I struggle to see that happening with Blake staying as starter.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not like keeping Blake there will improve our greatest weaknesses on D. I mean, we must improve there to have a legit chance. I struggle to see that happening with Blake staying as starter.

I think you are viewing this in a bubble. "What happens when we remove one piece and replace it with a different one?"

I don't think the Packer coaches have completely pinned all of the defenses failures on Blake Martinez. Some of the blame is being put on a DL that isn't keeping Blake clean, as well as not having a complimentary ILB/hybrid S playing well next to him. None of those components will change when you insert Ty for Blake.

Again, it comes down to "Is Ty a better ILB than Blake Martinez?" At this time, I don't think so and I think the coaches must feel that way or he would be out there getting more than the 0 snaps that he has gotten on defense thus far in the regular season.

 

[greengold]

I really do understand where you are coming from. In my eyes, I've been wondering if they haven't been grooming Ty to take over for Blake, keeping him out to watch what is happening out there, in essence, giving him half a season or so to learn the nuances of Pettine's D, then give him a go... It has been what we would have to consider a purposeful absence in play at ILB, for a guy who really is a pretty good player. Maybe I am overvaluing him. My eyes and the study I've done on him tell me differently.

PkrJones just alluded to Kwiatkowski. Their draft profiles are quite similar, yet Ty is vastly more athletic. Faster, stronger, better high jump, better long jump. Just an explosive athlete who played with a lot of fire at TCU.

Regardless, we will definitely see what they have in store to change their poor play in the middle. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but, I cannot see it getting any worse. I also agree that all of the defensive woes cannot be pinned on Martinez, but, he does account for many in both run D and pass D.

Our problems on D have been pretty wide ranging, not our positive play (over the past 6 weeks). Our sack totals are down significantly, our TOs have taken a big downturn. We are giving up a ton of explosive plays. I don't see us punching balls out or making many INTs. Our 3rd down D has been pretty poor.

We can point to some injuries, early losing Burks, Greene, Brown, Hollman for extended periods, along with Montravius, and recently with King playing through a groin or hammy, I forget, and Savage with the ankle. Every team experiences those. I see some slipping with both Lancaster and Lowry, though they have had positive moments too. Getting the extension, I did expect more good, consistent play from Lowry. Can't say we've had that. Z and Preston have been keeping us in games, if not with sacks, with pressures. Gary is getting limited snaps, around 15 per game. That looks like a purposeful plan too.

Maybe some of this stuff turns around for the better. Good teams can slip in early going, then recover to finish out. We'll see.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In my eyes, I've been wondering if they haven't been grooming Ty to take over for Blake, keeping him out to watch what is happening out there, in essence, giving him half a season or so to learn the nuances of Pettine's D, then give him a go... It has been what we would have to consider a purposeful absence in play at ILB, for a guy who really is a pretty good player. Maybe I am overvaluing him. My eyes and the study I've done on him tell me differently.

Your eyes should tell you one thing. As bad as the ILB position currently is, Ty Summers getting zero snaps on defense through 9 games, completes the picture as to where he currently is, in the Packers coaches eyes.

 

[GleefulGary]

Your eyes should tell you one thing. As bad as the ILB position currently is, Ty Summers getting zero snaps on defense through 9 games, completes the picture as to where he currently is, in the Packers coaches eyes.

Exactly!

If they were "grooming" him to take over for Martinez, then they would actually give him, you know, snaps.

He's not playing over Martinez, Goodson, Burks, or whichever safety Pettine wants to use. It's not just Martinez he can't play over, it's freaking Goodson and Burks!

Summers has been an ok ST's player, but somebody has an unhealthy obsession with him.