Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez

[OldSchool101]

I really do understand where you are coming from. In my eyes, I've been wondering if they haven't been grooming Ty to take over for Blake, keeping him out to watch what is happening out there, in essence, giving him half a season or so to learn the nuances of Pettine's D, then give him a go... It has been what we would have to consider a purposeful absence in play at ILB, for a guy who really is a pretty good player. Maybe I am overvaluing him. My eyes and the study I've done on him tell me differently.

PkrJones just alluded to Kwiatkowski. Their draft profiles are quite similar, yet Ty is vastly more athletic. Faster, stronger, better high jump, better long jump. Just an explosive athlete who played with a lot of fire at TCU.

Regardless, we will definitely see what they have in store to change their poor play in the middle. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but, I cannot see it getting any worse. I also agree that all of the defensive woes cannot be pinned on Martinez, but, he does account for many in both run D and pass D.

Our problems on D have been pretty wide ranging, not our positive play (over the past 6 weeks). Our sack totals are down significantly, our TOs have taken a big downturn. We are giving up a ton of explosive plays. I don't see us punching balls out or making many INTs. Our 3rd down D has been pretty poor.

Maybe some of this stuff turns around for the better. Good teams can slip in early going, then recover to finish out. We'll see.

I will say Ibraeheim Campbell is likely our best short term answer chance in the middle. He has adequate experience and he is known for his aggressive style. He was one of our top ST players last year but has also been competing with Burks at the other LB spot. He’s more an ideal fit for being aggressive on run D and fast enough to shadow receivers out of the backfield. My only concern isn’t his athleticism, but his health and how quickly he can get back to 100%. I think he could develop into a pretty good compliment to Blake.

Also we need a better plan of attack at the LOS. I noticed we often move both Smiths up as DE types. Then opponents run it up the middle and take them out of the play. Maybe keep one back with Campbell a little more and increase the ILB blitz a tad more. Just one idea, but likely it’ll take some variance in roles to plug the LOS and confront RBs in the backfield verses waiting for the play to develop and gain steam. You don’t want Christian getting a head of steam. He needs to be gang tackled and that takes more of a commitment to the A & B gaps and anticipation of the screens and short passes that develop from out of the Flat area.

Also, by this time of the season, Ty Summers (5.45 draft grade) should be prepared to step in for Martinez “IF” he’s not performing. That’s what he’s here for. This might be the one time we can afford to try him out and see where’s he’s at. I’m not enthused about waiting until 2020 to see if he has potential. He’s got play calling experience on his resume if that’s a future concern. We don’t have to play Ty all day every day, but let’s get a look at him at some point other than ST.

KC’s Anthony Hitchens (4.95 draft grade) is an example and was also a depth LB (presumed priority FA) when he came out day 3 in 2014 and quickly developed into a very good starter when forced to play because of injuries at LB in Dallas. I remember watching him and he was a complete surprise and looked like a starter almost immediately.

 

[HardRightEdge]

He’s got some game Joneser...

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Kwiatkoski and Travathan are both in their contract years. I would not be surprised if K. is a Bears priority and we'll be exchanging 100 posts on the pros and cons of T. It's just too early.

 

[HardRightEdge]

For anybody who plans to watch LSU vs. Alabama tomorrow you might want to keep an eye on:

• Jacob Phillips, one of LSU's 3-4 ILBs. He's a Junior but might be coming out.

• Anfernee Jennings, one of Alabama's 4-3 OLBs ("Jack" LB), who is getting at least one mention as a possible ILB projection.

I watched this game despite the fact I rarely watch college football. Anyway, as for these players:

• Jennings should not be an ILB projection in anybody's book. He's an edge player who plays hand in the dirt or stands-up, moves inside standing up on occasion and drops in short coverage on occasion, what edge players with any versatility do in the NFL. That's how he'll be drafted.

• Nothing particularly dramatic from Phillips. He was spotlighted on a couple of short coverages near the goal line but that's about it. The box score shows 7 tackles which seems generous. 1/2 sack. It did seem Alabama was playing away from his side of the field which might say something. I didn't see enough of him to make a judgment on speed or punch but he does show up on some ILB prospect lists.

• Phillip's partner at ILB, Patrick Queen, is an interesting player. He's a junior but we know how that might go. Some sites project him at OLB, but at about 225 lbs. he's more a hybrid ILB type, and that's where they played him in this game. He had a couple of nice plays in downfield coverage, an INT in zone on a savvy read and very good coverage on a RB sideline route TD where that RB simply made a teriffic catch. Good speed and he can do some hitting. Along with Phillips this is a guy to keep an eye on if he comes out for the 2020 draft.

It was really a QB and receiver pitch and catch game, and not a particularly clean one on Alabama's side of the ball.

 

[Scotland Yard]

Your eyes should tell you one thing. As bad as the ILB position currently is, Ty Summers getting zero snaps on defense through 9 games, completes the picture as to where he currently is, in the Packers coaches eyes.

You may be right. However, I'm compelled to point out that coaches are not always right about these things...

Last year, MM was trotting out Ty Montgomery at RB when he should have been using Jones/Williams (when healthy of course).

TE Adam Shaheen of the Bears. For three seasons they've been deluding themselves that he has something because he was 2nd round pick, but, the dude can't play. Josh Jackson of the Packers looks like a similar situation to me (2nd round pick)...although the Packers seem to be faster learners than the Bears because they have Sullivan, Redmond and Brown all playing in front of him now.

Majik Man was starting ahead of Favre until he got hurt. I remember well when they traded for Favre not many Packer fans liked that deal and never thought he'd never amount to anything. Favre also rode the bench his rookie year in Atlanta.

If you thought Favre couldn't play because his coaches didn't use him his rookie season you were dead wrong.

Anyway, the point is that Ty Summers can still emerge if given a chance.

 

[Scotland Yard]

For anybody who plans to watch LSU vs. Alabama tomorrow you might want to keep an eye on:

• Jacob Phillips, one of LSU's 3-4 ILBs. He's a Junior but might be coming out.

• Anfernee Jennings, one of Alabama's 4-3 OLBs ("Jack" LB), who is getting at least one mention as a possible ILB projection.

What a game!

Anyway, I was most impressed by the LSU LB's Chaisson & Queen. Chaisson can probably play OLB or ILB in Green Bay's defense (would surely play ILB given the current roster), and Queen is exactly what we need as far as a cover ILB to stay with RB's & TE's on pass defense. Chaisson is NFL ready today...don't know if he's coming out 2020 or 2021.

But, in the 2020 draft I'd also be looking at ALA WR's Jeudy or Ruggs. Or one of the two RB's, Najee Harris of 'Bama or Clyde Edwards-Helaire of LSU. Helaire is a thicker version of A. Jones, and we haven't seen a RB like Harris in GB since Eddie Lee Ivory.

OLB Jennings is huge and fits the mold we have in the Smith Bros. & R. Gary if the Packers want another one. Great game with 2 sacks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You may be right. However, I'm compelled to point out that coaches are not always right about these things...

Last year, MM was trotting out Ty Montgomery at RB when he should have been using Jones/Williams (when healthy of course).

TE Adam Shaheen of the Bears. For three seasons they've been deluding themselves that he has something because he was 2nd round pick, but, the dude can't play. Josh Jackson of the Packers looks like a similar situation to me (2nd round pick)...although the Packers seem to be faster learners than the Bears because they have Sullivan, Redmond and Brown all playing in front of him now.

Majik Man was starting ahead of Favre until he got hurt. I remember well when they traded for Favre not many Packer fans liked that deal and never thought he'd never amount to anything. Favre also rode the bench his rookie year in Atlanta.

If you thought Favre couldn't play because his coaches didn't use him his rookie season you were dead wrong.

Anyway, the point is that Ty Summers can still emerge if given a chance.

Not sure why you are comparing Ty Summers to Brett Favre? The Packers traded a first round pick for Favre, Summers was a 7th round pick.

Again, given the fact that Ty Summers has played zero defensive snaps this season, I would be willing to wager that he would be more likely to fail, if given a chance in 2019.

So, give me the speech that you would give MLF and Pettine as to why you think Sommers should start ahead of Martinez. Such speech should not start with "Martinez sucks", since that has no baring on how good of a football player Summers is.

 

[XPack]

Such speech should not start with "Martinez sucks", since that has no baring on how good of a football player Summers is.

If Summers is in discussion then by default there's a view that he sucks less than Blake. And if He's still in team, then coaches do see some value.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Summers is in discussion then by default there's a view that he sucks less than Blake. And if He's still in team, then coaches do see some value.

Of course some are thinking he sucks less than Blake, but you could say that about a number of backups and still not be correct. Again, Blake's inadequacies don't necessary equate to Sommers being a better option by default. Sommers not being put on the field for one defensive snap tells me what the coaches currently think of him.

As far as why he is still on the team, much the same as other backups, the coaches see value in him as a special teamer and potentially as a FUTURE ILB. One could play this game every season, wanting "their guy" to take over for a starter that isn't playing up to starting quality football in their eyes. Hell, I remember some fans screaming that Jeff Janis deserved more playing time over other WR's, players that had way more experience and talent than JJ.

If the Packers were 2-8, I would understand this dialogue of "give Sommers a chance to prove himself".

 

[Scotland Yard]

Not sure why you are comparing Ty Summers to Brett Favre? The Packers traded a first round pick for Favre, Summers was a 7th round pick.

Again, given the fact that Ty Summers has played zero defensive snaps this season, I would be willing to wager that he would be more likely to fail, if given a chance in 2019.

So, give me the speech that you would give MLF and Pettine as to why you think Sommers should start ahead of Martinez. Such speech should not start with "Martinez sucks", since that has no baring on how good of a football player Summers is.

Come on Pokerbrat, you know I wasn't comparing Summers to Favre. I provided several examples of players that were misjudged by their coaches. Favre was wrongly evaluated by ATL and Glanville so he rode the bench and was traded. The point is that if coaches/organizations could be that far wrong about Favre, is it not possible the Packers - Pettine in particular - might be wrong about giving Summers a chance despite the fact he is a rookie?

However, I accept your demand not to start the speech with "Martinez sucks". If you watched the game yesterday, you already know that would be an insult to the word "sucks". It would be overly generous to Martinez to say he "sucks". He is probably the worst ILB the Packers have ever kept on the field more than a couple of games...including the 1970-1980's. Time and again Martinez had a clean shot in the hole vs. CAR, the D-line had done its job and held up the O-line, and Martinez didn't even touch the RB...he just spun and watched the RB go by. Turnstiles at least slow someone down a little.

A four-year veteran in a contract year that can't sniff out a clean hole is worthless. His regression this season is astonishing. It is over for Martinez.

Summers had 319 tackles at TCU. Four-year starter for Gary Patterson, who is the one coach in the Big 12 that knows defense. I freely admit Summers will not be any better than Martinez in coverage (they should use I. Campbell on passing downs). However, at this point I believe Summers will be an upgrade on early downs. Summers played downhill at TCU as evidenced by his tackles for loss and a few sacks and I believe he will be more likely to step up behind Kenny Clark and stick that RB in the hole.

Summers is faster. His forty was 4.51. Blake's was 4.71.

Summers 27 bench. Martinez 22.

Summers vertical 36 in. Martinez 28.5.

Summers broad jump 123 in. Martinez 113.

Their 3-cone & 20yd shuttles were almost identical.

Summers has a degree in communications, so, I expect he can wear the headset and call the defense.

 

[XPack]

Jeez, this is harsh. I really missed some of those and in the clips, just plain awful!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

And then he also does this...

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

No wonder he's such a divisive figure.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My repeated and final words on the whole "Why isn't Martinez being benched for Ty Summers?"

Ty Summers been given zero snaps on defense in the regular season, not 1 not 2, but zero. So either the coaches are extremely wrong and ignorant on his current abilities or some posters just aren't willing to admit that he may just not be ready to play. This isn't about how bad Martinez is playing, its just about Summers not being ready to play in the coaches eyes.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Mondio]

Jeez, this is harsh. I really missed some of those and in the clips, just plain awful!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

And then he also does this...

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

No wonder he's such a divisive figure.

I think #1 is more accurate than #2

and it's funny, #2 uses a play against the Bronco's as a + for the player Blake Martinez is, and #1 shows it as a negative. I watched part of the 2nd first and was scratching my head about that one, as the QB just scrambled for a 1st down. Not really a + play, anyway. Then I watched the 2nd. Well parts I guess.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think #1 is more accurate than #2

and it's funny, #2 uses a play against the Bronco's as a + for the player Blake Martinez is, and #1 shows it as a negative. I watched part of the 2nd first and was scratching my head about that one, as the QB just scrambled for a 1st down. Not really a + play, anyway. Then I watched the 2nd. Well parts I guess.

Agreed and I don't think Gute, Pettine or the other coaches are completely blind to the fact that Martinez isn't a very good ILB right now. However, I do think there is some correlation between his play and the other players around him. If the season ended today, Blake should not be resigned, unless it was at a very low price. I do think he is the best ILB that the Packers have right now, but that isn't really saying much at all.

 

[GleefulGary]

Agreed and I don't think Gute, Pettine or the other coaches are completely blind to the fact that Martinez isn't a very good ILB right now. However, I do think there is some correlation between his play and the other players around him. If the season ended today, Blake should not be resigned, unless it was at a very low price. I do think he is the best ILB that the Packers have right now, but that isn't really saying much at all.

I'd say this is spot on.

 

[Dantés]

It's funny... no matter how critical I am of a player, there is always someone extreme enough to make me defend that same player. I kind of hate it.

 

[longtimefan]

Final goal line stand ..Blake moved frackle to right spot

 

[Scotland Yard]

Final goal line stand ..Blake moved frackle to right spot

If Martinez had actually made some tackles when he was unblocked one-on-one vs. the RB throughout the game that goal line stand wouldn't have been necessary...it would have been a blowout.

 

[OldSchool101]

My repeated and final words on the whole "Why isn't Martinez being benched for Ty Summers?"

Ty Summers been given zero snaps on defense in the regular season, not 1 not 2, but zero. So either the coaches are extremely wrong and ignorant on his current abilities or some posters just aren't willing to admit that he may just not be ready to play. This isn't about how bad Martinez is playing, its just about Summers not being ready to play in the coaches eyes.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Ty was on the field against the Panthers but suffered a concerning head injury. I didn’t remember seeing it so maybe he ran off the field under his own power?
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/packers-ty-summers-suffers-possible-head-injury/

 

[Mondio]

I did not notice him on the field on defense, but then I never take a note of every player on a particular snap unless i'm watching that position specifically or they do somethingg worth seeing

 

[OldSchool101]

I did not notice him on the field on defense, but then I never take a note of every player on a particular snap unless i'm watching that position specifically or they do somethingg worth seeing

idk. That may have been on ST?
Maybe that article was meant to be snaps in practice? I’m not seeing any registered snaps on D. Wishful thinking. He’s back to being a ZERO

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ty was on the field against the Panthers but suffered a concerning head injury. I didn’t remember seeing it so maybe he ran off the field under his own power?
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/packers-ty-summers-suffers-possible-head-injury/

I did not notice him on the field on defense, but then I never take a note of every player on a particular snap unless i'm watching that position specifically or they do somethingg worth seeing

idk. That may have been on ST?
Maybe that article was meant to be snaps in practice? I’m not seeing any registered snaps on D. Wishful thinking. He’s back to being a ZERO

Yup.......The "Count" remains the same for Ty on offense.....But at least now, people can say "he isn't playing on defense, because he is injured".

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SummTy00/fantasy/2019

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[longtimefan]

If Martinez had actually made some tackles when he was unblocked one-on-one vs. the RB throughout the game that goal line stand wouldn't have been necessary...it would have been a blowout.

Yup.

But he should be credited for noticing the play

 

[Scotland Yard]

Yup.

But he should be credited for noticing the play

O.K. Credit for that.

But, go back and watch the play. If CAR OG Van Roten hadn't stopped McCaffrey himself, McCaffrey probably scores with Martinez standing upright in the endzone looking at it.

 

[OldSchool101]

O.K. Credit for that.

But, go back and watch the play. If CAR OG Van Roten hadn't stopped McCaffrey himself, McCaffrey probably scores with Martinez standing upright in the endzone looking at it.

The part I don’t get is this. Why would any ILB wait for the RB to come to him past the goal line in a goal line stand? That makes absolutely zero sense.

You should have both stuff at least 1 hole on either side of the center at full speed anticipating right/left and high/low and meeting the RB well before they reach the LOS, much less the Goal Line.

Fackrell did a nice job of shooting his gap and he was basically off balance due to the quick snap, but yet being proactive paid off. Martinez should’ve similarly hit the hole on the opposite side IMO. I’m not sure what the reasoning is behind waiting and tackling guys who have already scored a TD? It wasn’t just Blake either, Preston tackled him in the Endzone previous drive. I must be missing something?
In goal line. Wed be better off having a couple bigger bodies (Keke and Gary) get a running start and hit the gaps full steam at the LOS and lower their pads and assault someone William Fridge Perry Style.

 

[longtimefan]

O.K. Credit for that.

But, go back and watch the play. If CAR OG Van Roten hadn't stopped McCaffrey himself, McCaffrey probably scores with Martinez standing upright in the endzone looking at it.

Yes I know..lord.I was just admitting he put a guy in right spot.

He sucks and shouldn't be there..but give him credit with out making another jab at him