Josh Jackson.

[rodell330]

What’s going to happen with this guy? They’ve got him listed as the 4th corner on the depth chart. Idk how he can’t beat out Tramon Williams...because tbh I don’t want to see Tramon Williams on the field at all this season.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Josh Jackson followed up a poor rookie season by going AWOL. He's missed the entire training camp so his injury must be substantial. I agree, Williams is too old and Jackson's absense hurts the team.

 

[Mondio]

he had pretty good coverage last night considering he's missed most of the offseason and preseason.

 

[PackerDNA]

Article today at cbssports.com, 6 players who need position changes. Jackson is one of them. Says he's much better off in zone than man to man.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Josh Jackson followed up a poor rookie season by going AWOL. He's missed the entire training camp so his injury must be substantial. I agree, Williams is too old and Jackson's absense hurts the team.

Jackson had a "foot injury".

In general, not specific to Jackson, the range of possibilites in that phrase is quite wide, maybe wider than any other injury. It could be a painful toe stub on the bedpost that takes a couple are weeks to come around to the point where a guy can actually play NFL football. It could be a more serious sprain. Certain ankle sprains sometimes get tossed into the "foot injury" category. It could be a condition that's borderline operative with the guy trying to play through pain. It could be a career ender, a Lisfranc injury, a microfracture surgery that didn't take or even a turf toe that refuses to heal. There is a lot of delicate machinery in the foot and ankle. Hands and wrists as well, but you're not running and pounding on those.

Some guys have an excess of athleticism, football talent, smarts and experience, All Pro type players, that play through pain and impairment without missing a beat. Woodson had a chronic turf toe where he rarely practiced for a couple of years and probably played through pain all the way to Defensive Player of the Year in 2009. To my eye he should have won it again in 2010 when again he was rarely practicing. Guys without all those exessives of talent and intangilbes can't do that. Put it on a spectrum of talents divided by severity.

Enough of that. We don't know the nature of Jackson's injury. He went on the non-football injury list at the end of July and was back playing last night. It could have been that toe on the bedpost. Regardless, he got some snaps last night after about 3 or 4 weeks on hiatus. He didn't look the worse for wear but that doesn't mean he isn't playing with some pain. Dunno and nobody's going to tell us.

What we did see, which remains a concern, is it didn't take long for him to be guessing wrong and and chasing on that sideline deep ball, playing catch up without getting his head around. He was lucky it wasn't a well thrown ball allowing him to break it up. Getting beat and chasing happens to the best of them; nobody is burn proof. The issue is that this is the kind of play that concerned us with Jackson last season and it didn't take long to see it again. Having been out for most of camp sure didn't help in his making the frequently uncommon but always hoped for second year jump in the offseason optimism.

He's still a young player. The book is open. But are you going to start him in week 1? I don't think so.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Article today at cbssports.com, 6 players who need position changes. Jackson is one of them. Says he's much better off in zone than man to man.

The zone vs. man question has crossed my mind. There's a lot less flip, run, track-the-ball in dowfield routes in zone. It takes more smarts than one-on-one coverage. You have to read and then react (accurately) before the ball is thrown, otherwise you are just a tackler and not a pass defender. That's true of safeties in general, another purported fit for Jackson coming from some quarters.

Frankly, I wouldn't know if those would be better fits without seeing him trying it over a couple of games. Zone is not Pettine's bread and butter and we're not going to see Jackson at safety this year. Who knows, his light could go on in this defense before the year is out. So, these alternative roles or positions are questions for a later date.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The question mark on Jackson coming out of Iowa was his ability to play man coverage in the NFL and the people questioning it so far are correct. He is safe to make the team IMO, but still needs a lot of work on technique. However, I do think with his speed and ball hawking skills, he is fine playing when the Packers go into some form of zone coverage. Should he be converted to Safety? He wouldn't be the first DB in Green Bay that was being played out of position.

 

[rodell330]

Article today at cbssports.com, 6 players who need position changes. Jackson is one of them. Says he's much better off in zone than man to man.

I’ve been saying this same thing in here since last year. I believe in the right zone system you’re looking at a guy who could get 5/6 ints a season.

 

[PikeBadger]

I’ve been saying this same thing in here since last year. I believe in the right zone system you’re looking at a guy who could get 5/6 ints a season.

Agree and that may be possibly underestimating. He’s similar to Micah Hyde but imo has better natural ability and instincts. Actually reminds me more of Darren Sharper who the Packers also played out of position for at least one year. Essentially, we’ve had GM’s that could identify talent and DC’s that could find a way to misuse the talent for the entire 21st century.

 

[Mondio]

Or maybe they think has enough natural ability, but hasn't been taught or asked to do the other stuff? It's like anything else in life, you don't know how good your are until you try. Messing with a golf swing might screw you up for a good while and make your game look worse, but once you master it, you're shooting in the mid 70's instead of mid 80's? Or I can play a hell of a lot of songs with G,C,D chords on a guitar, but spending time working on embellishments and variations make a song come alive. Or be a great between the tackles ground and pound running back, but can't catch. Spend some time on the hands and suddenly the entire offense comes grows exponentially.

Maybe Jackson can get by with instincts and zone in college, maybe he has skills to play the rest of the game. I'm not going to pretend anyone on here is remotely qualified to make that determination. Just like a QB that throws lots of int's early, but becomes great because he learned and grew his game rather than doing what he was always good at, Jackson could be the same. The best learn by failure. I've seen him run with enough guys to know he can do it. I've seen him play the ball well enough to know he can do it. This stuff isn't learned in a season.

 

[El Guapo]

Maybe Jackson can get by with instincts and zone in college, maybe he has skills to play the rest of the game.

I think this is a commonly overlooked aspect of pro athletes maturation. Most have excelled at every level and didn't need to put in the effort. The players that experience the "2nd year jump" are the ones that figured out they won't get by on talent alone. Unfortunately, major sports are littered with immature players that couldn't figure this out before the team/league moved passed them.

I see Jackson in this sense. He's got the tools but I haven't seen the improvement. I'd bet money that the coaches are trying, but you can't push the horse to water and Jackson doesn't seem thirsty enough.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think he had poor year last year by any means, and he in his defense, last week was basically his preseason thus far. Going to take a week or 2 to catch up to everyone else. Even vets suffer from not practicing.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think this is a commonly overlooked aspect of pro athletes maturation. Most have excelled at every level and didn't need to put in the effort. The players that experience the "2nd year jump" are the ones that figured out they won't get by on talent alone. Unfortunately, major sports are littered with immature players that couldn't figure this out before the team/league moved passed them.

I see Jackson in this sense. He's got the tools but I haven't seen the improvement. I'd bet money that the coaches are trying, but you can't push the horse to water and Jackson doesn't seem thirsty enough.

There are more factors in play than just effort.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think this is a commonly overlooked aspect of pro athletes maturation. Most have excelled at every level and didn't need to put in the effort. The players that experience the "2nd year jump" are the ones that figured out they won't get by on talent alone. Unfortunately, major sports are littered with immature players that couldn't figure this out before the team/league moved passed them.

I see Jackson in this sense. He's got the tools but I haven't seen the improvement. I'd bet money that the coaches are trying, but you can't push the horse to water and Jackson doesn't seem thirsty enough.

Yes and you have to wonder if some of that comes down to not having the right coaches in place. This seems to be an ongoing issue with the Packer Secondary, talented guys coming in and under-performing. I was glad to see Whitt finally jettisoned, but I hope Simmons, who worked under Whitt and his new staff have a better ability at getting their players to step up and become better players. I guess we will see.

 

[rodell330]

Yes and you have to wonder if some of that comes down to not having the right coaches in place. This seems to be an ongoing issue with the Packer Secondary, talented guys coming in and under-performing. I was glad to see Whitt finally jettisoned, but I hope Simmons, who worked under Whitt and his new staff have a better ability at getting their players to step up and become better players. I guess we will see.

I know you weren’t a big fan of Joe Whitt, but Sam Shields And Tramon Williams turned into pretty good corners under him. Not to mention Charles Woodson who turned into a first ballot hall of famer when he got to Green Bay.

I just think Gute drafted two completely different corners when he took Alexander in the first and Jackson in the 2nd. Their style of play is like night and day. If Pettine is ging to play a lot of man in his scheme then they should’ve taken a man corner in the 2nd instead of Jackson. Unless they plan on using him as a safety like I’ve been saying.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know you weren’t a big fan of Joe Whitt, but Sam Shields And Tramon Williams turned into pretty good corners under him. Not to mention Charles Woodson who turned into a first ballot hall of famer when he got to Green Bay.

I just think Gute drafted two completely different corners when he took Alexander in the first and Jackson in the 2nd. Their style of play is like night and day. If Pettine is ging to play a lot of man in his scheme then they should’ve taken a man corner in the 2nd instead of Jackson. Unless they plan on using him as a safety like I’ve been saying.

Yeah, many of us have had this discussion countless times. I will give Whitt some credit for Shields, although some of that credit should probably be given to the other players that Shields played behind and that you mentioned (Woodson and Williams) for being there to help with the project. Giving Whitt any credit for Woodson is about as big of a stretch that one can make and Williams himself was pretty far along before Whitt came into his life.

 

[Mondio]

I know you weren’t a big fan of Joe Whitt, but Sam Shields And Tramon Williams turned into pretty good corners under him. Not to mention Charles Woodson who turned into a first ballot hall of famer when he got to Green Bay.

I just think Gute drafted two completely different corners when he took Alexander in the first and Jackson in the 2nd. Their style of play is like night and day. If Pettine is ging to play a lot of man in his scheme then they should’ve taken a man corner in the 2nd instead of Jackson. Unless they plan on using him as a safety like I’ve been saying.

I don't think he'd make a better safety than either they have their right now. I think Savage has a much higher ceiling than he has in that regard.

But the defense isn't a finished product and though never will be because it's the NFL, it won't be fully implemented and run smoothly until guys have 2-3 seasons in it. Pettine reportedly likes to use combinations of zone and man. You can't have one guy play zone all the time and one play man all the time because an offense can beat that when they know what it is.

But if you can show man and play zone, or show zone and play man and change the parts of the field it happens on out of the same alignments at the snap of the ball, you create confusion and turnovers. They are different types of DB's, but it doesnt' mean one can't get better at something he's done very little of at all in his football career and allow Pettine to use him in a way that will maximize his skills within the entire defense.

 

[GleefulGary]

The problem with Josh Jackson at safety is that he's an abhorrent tackler.

 

[El Guapo]

I'd much rather have Tramon at safety, because he doesn't have his speed anymore.

 

[OldSchool101]

IDK. I think we could very well be missing his calling. He’s obviously got the instincts to play either CB or Safety. His experience comes in a zone environment.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/...-jackson-crowded-cb-room-contribute-at-safety

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

IDK. I think we could very well be missing his calling. He’s obviously got the instincts to play either CB or Safety. His experience comes in a zone environment.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/...-jackson-crowded-cb-room-contribute-at-safety

Although the article is from over 15 months ago, a lot of it rings true. Starting to wonder if Gute pulled a TT like move with drafting Jackson. Too good of a deal to pass up, whether he fit the system or not and maybe too much confidence in being able to change him so that he did fit eventually into that system.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I see Jackson in this sense. He's got the tools but I haven't seen the improvement. I'd bet money that the coaches are trying, but you can't push the horse to water and Jackson doesn't seem thirsty enough.

I have a hard time understanding fans questioning Jackson's work ethic because he hasn't been able to fully grasp the pro game after only one season when it was pretty obvious he was extremely raw coming out of college.

I'd much rather have Tramon at safety, because he doesn't have his speed anymore.

Williams lack of speed would be an issue at free safety as well.

 

[Mondio]

why do people think he can't play DB? he had a fairly good year last year as a rookie despite being a very raw player. That article's best reasoning to move him to safety? to move Josh Jones or Burks off the field because they presumed KIng, Jaire, and WIlliams were taking the top 3 DB spots and Jackson was too good to be the 4th guy off the bench. There wasn't one thing in there that makes me think he can't be a very good DB.