Joe Whitt

[adambr2]

When Capers was let go, the exodus of several defensive coaches was expected, to say the least. However, at least based on performance, one that you would have expected to see jettisoned, Joe Whitt Jr, was actually promoted to what amounts to assistant DC, and was inexplicably (at least to me), considered for the DC position.

My question is, what am I missing on this guy that the Packers see in him? Sam Shields and Tramon Williams, is that really it? The development of these guys is a good 7+ years in the rearview mirror, and he's had almost nothing to show for it since then. Sure, other UDFAs have cracked the roster like Gunter and Pipkins, but with almost non-existent impact. Numerous early picks have been invested in corners. Randall was a disaster until finally coming around in his 3rd year, and he has gotten absolutely zero out of Quinten Rollins. Every year we hear a piece in camp on how a corner looks like they're ready to make an impact and lead the secondary, and every year it turns out to be nothing but fluff. This past season that player was supposed to be Rollins.

King's rookie season was essentially a lost one. You can't blame Whitt for injuries, but we also cannot afford to invest heavily in corners in the draft and not even expect to see impact until near the end of their rookie deals.

Whitt's biggest blunder was probably failing to get anything at all out of Hayward's 3rd and 4th seasons when he was healthy again, then watching him leave for San Diego and become one of the premiere NFL corners. Worse, Whitt was obviously involved in the evaluation process where it was determined that Hayward was limited to being a slot corner, not an outside corner, an evaluation which was miserably incorrect.

Someone please help me understand what we see so much in Joe Whitt to want his continued presence as one of our highest level defensive coaches even at a time with so much significant internal overhaul among our coaches.

 

[GB2016]

Great question...will also be interested in seeing replies.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

Whitt could have been handcuffed by Capers. There's also the team morale factor...guys might really enjoy playing for him and that goes a long way.

 

[Mondio]

I'd say you can't ignore the success of shields or Williams. I'd say you're being a bit unfair with Randall and Rollins. Rookie seasons, EVERYBODY thought we had something. Then they were both hurt. Randall bounced back. Even if he stays where he is, he's a good DB, and I don't think he's the most easily coached kid in the world. Rollins has been mostly hurt. he's had a few brief stints since his rookies season where he wasn't out with injury, but i'm not drawing any conclusions from that. and being a position coach and teaching technique only to have them thinking too much and blowing coverages from scheme confusions could be on him or it could be on the big picture coach.

The guy has been well respected in this org, and others for a while. He's had success, i'm guessing he knows what he's doing. I think people discount what it means to have so much rotation and injury and not being able to practice and how that is going to affect the overall look of a position group or defense in general.

Their evaluation of Hayward could have had as much to do with seeing if their 2 young investments could make him expendable or not as it did thinking he couldn't play on the outside. It could also been nothing more than Dom's schemes asked the DB's to do different things and Hayward couldn't do those things well on this defense, but they used him differently in SD. He's still not that fast, and I hardly watched any Chargers games last year, but in the 15 minutes total I probably saw of them, I saw him give up 2 pretty bad TD's. Most of GB's woes have been in blown coverages, week after week.

 

[n4t]

Whitt is highly respected among both players and coaches. The actions this off season continue to support this narrative. CWood himself hosted an internet page promoting him for the Packers DC.

What a fan thinks about an assistant coach is irrelevant. You have to actually know something to have a valuable opinion.

 

[gopkrs]

I can't imagine keeping a def backfield coach. I would hope the new coordinator would have position coaches in mind.

 

[PackAttack12]

I think what the team has concluded is that, schematically, Capers left a lot to be desired. Getting rid of Capers and promoting the guy that was in charge of the corner backs tells me that they think they were being misused within the scheme. The emergence of guys like Hyde and Hayward as pro bowlers would support that hypothesis.

Great topic for discussion.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

When Capers was let go, the exodus of several defensive coaches was expected, to say the least. However, at least based on performance, one that you would have expected to see jettisoned, Joe Whitt Jr, was actually promoted to what amounts to assistant DC, and was inexplicably (at least to me), considered for the DC position.

My question is, what am I missing on this guy that the Packers see in him? Sam Shields and Tramon Williams, is that really it? The development of these guys is a good 7+ years in the rearview mirror, and he's had almost nothing to show for it since then. Sure, other UDFAs have cracked the roster like Gunter and Pipkins, but with almost non-existent impact. Numerous early picks have been invested in corners. Randall was a disaster until finally coming around in his 3rd year, and he has gotten absolutely zero out of Quinten Rollins. Every year we hear a piece in camp on how a corner looks like they're ready to make an impact and lead the secondary, and every year it turns out to be nothing but fluff. This past season that player was supposed to be Rollins.

King's rookie season was essentially a lost one. You can't blame Whitt for injuries, but we also cannot afford to invest heavily in corners in the draft and not even expect to see impact until near the end of their rookie deals.

Whitt's biggest blunder was probably failing to get anything at all out of Hayward's 3rd and 4th seasons when he was healthy again, then watching him leave for San Diego and become one of the premiere NFL corners. Worse, Whitt was obviously involved in the evaluation process where it was determined that Hayward was limited to being a slot corner, not an outside corner, an evaluation which was miserably incorrect.

Someone please help me understand what we see so much in Joe Whitt to want his continued presence as one of our highest level defensive coaches even at a time with so much significant internal overhaul among our coaches.

For what it's worth, Charles Woodson and Jason Wilde seem to be on the same page on this one:

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay...-Packers-new-defensive-coordinator--113085241



Do they know something we don't know?

Probably......

 

[Dantés]

The move to keep him tells me that McCarthy places the blame for the issues mentioned above squarely on Capers and/or Thompson (i.e. personnel).

I'm not saying that's right. But that's the reasoning as to why you would see Capers let go and Whitt promoted. I guess we will see what happens.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Perry was also retained. We might conclude that the brain trust sees the problem as one of scheme. Let's hope Capers did not confuse them beyond repair.

 

[Dantés]

Perry was also retained. We might conclude that the brain trust sees the problem as one of scheme. Let's hope Capers did not confuse them beyond repair.

Great coaches are great teachers. It's entirely possible that McCarthy sees Whitt, Perry, and Moss as good teachers who were merely being asked to teach bad curriculum. Who knows. Hopefully they pick up Pettine's scheme in a hurry so they're able to adequately communicate it to the team.

My understanding is that Patrick Graham has been hired to coach linebackers even though he was the DL coach in NY. I'm hoping that they bring in at least one position coach with history under Pettine to help teach the defense. Anthony Weaver would be ideal, but they'd have to give him a promotion, or Houston would have to willingly let him go.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Great coaches are great teachers. It's entirely possible that McCarthy sees Whitt, Perry, and Moss as good teachers who were merely being asked to teach bad curriculum. Who knows.

Nobody knows. It's the biggest question mark going into next season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I do agree with most everyone here.....and was equally confused with Whitt even being interviewed for the DC job, I immediately saw that as "The Packers are happy with the guy and even if he didn't get the DC job, they would try to retain him". How stupid would it have looked had they interviewed him for the DC job, not given it to him and then fired him at a lesser position?

My hope is Whitt currently has guys that he can now work better with under the new DC and we don't have to go all in on Free Agents and the draft at the position once again.

All that being said, I am fully on board with turning this into a "Fire Whitt" thread if we don't start seeing better play out of the secondary.

 

[Dantés]

Nobody knows. It's the biggest question mark going into next season.

Yes, personally I am most interested to see what happens on that side of the ball. I personally think the personnel is pretty good. They certainly have needs, but they have a lot of talent as well-- at least that's my opinion of the roster. But I could be wrong.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yes, personally I am most interested to see what happens on that side of the ball. I personally think the personnel is pretty good. They certainly have needs, but they have a lot of talent as well-- at least that's my opinion of the roster. But I could be wrong.

I don't think you're wrong but I could be wrong.

There's a lot of young draft capital sunk in that D-backfield and I don't think they're going to dive in at those positions in the upper rounds. WR, edge is where I'd be looking.

 

[Dantés]

I don't think you're wrong but I could be wrong.

There's a lot of young draft capital sunk in that D-backfield and I don't think they're going to dive in at those positions in the upper rounds. WR, edge is where I'd be looking.

I'm of the same mind.

TE and CB make a lot of sense as free agent acquisitions. They have very little money tied up in corners, while they have a ton at EDGE. The pass rush needs help, but ideally in the form of a rookie contract. The only veterans I'd be looking at there are buy-low lottery tickets like Trent Murphy.

If they cut one of the receivers, I wouldn't mind taking a swing on a potential value FA like Brice Butler or Marqise Lee.

 

[BrokenArrow]

To the OP, to put it in a tiny nutshell, whose scheme was Whitt required to teach? Position coaches don't design schemes. They do what they are told by the DC. Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Perry was also retained.

Just wondered where you found info. regarding Perry staying with the Packers? I saw a report that he would interview with the Texans.

Thanks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just wondered where you found info. regarding Perry staying with the Packers? I saw a report that he would interview with the Texans.

Thanks.

I read the same thing, that Perry is interviewing with the Texans, which means he either hasn't been offered the job in GB or he is weighing his options.

Pettine has quite a few other positions to fill as well. The following positions and coaches were vacated.

• defensive line coach Mike Trgovac
• assistant defensive line coach Jerry Montgomery
• assistant linebackers coach Scott McCurley
• defensive quality control coach Tim McGarigle
• Linebackers coach Winston Moss isn’t expected to return.

 

[XPack]

Randall was a disaster until finally coming around in his 3rd year, and he has gotten absolutely zero out of Quinten Rollins. Every year we hear a piece in camp on how a corner looks like they're ready to make an impact and lead the secondary, and every year it turns out to be nothing but fluff. This past season that player was supposed to be Rollins.

King's rookie season was essentially a lost one. You can't blame Whitt for injuries, but we also cannot afford to invest heavily in corners in the draft and not even expect to see impact until near the end of their rookie deals.

I think Corner is one of the 2nd toughest position to coach for, probably next in difficulty to QB.

Not just reading coverage, but reaction, anticipation, speed, flexibility...it's a combination of different skills...made more difficult by the reactive nature of the job. Add in the factor that you'll end up facing the elite playmakers of the opponent and it's a very specialized role.

Perhaps he was instrumental in Randall's progress last season. But then again, they could just be waiting for new Mike to make his decision.

 

[sschind]

Whitt is highly respected among both players and coaches. The actions this off season continue to support this narrative. CWood himself hosted an internet page promoting him for the Packers DC.

What a fan thinks about an assistant coach is irrelevant. You have to actually know something to have a valuable opinion.

Just because a guy is highly respected doesn't necessarily mean he is a good coach or would make a good coordinator. When your defensive backfield is as bad as ours was it is a perfectly legitimate question to wonder why the coach of that unit is held in such high regard.

That said I'm perfectly willing to accept MMs decision to keep him around. If it was indeed all Capers' fault then perhaps he is what we all thought he was.

 

[sschind]

Perhaps he was instrumental in Randall's progress last season. But then again, they could just be waiting for new Mike to make his decision.

It would be interesting to know if, since the hiring of Holmgren, the packers have employed a disproportionately high number of coaching personnel named Mike. Not interesting enough for me to actually look it up but interesting none the less.

OK I did look it up. Looks like since 1990 there have been 6 Mikes, 5 Joes, 5 John/Jon/Johnny and 5 Jim/James. Certainly as far as the top dog is concerned the Mikes have it. Now that I am armed with that information I have no idea what I am going to do with it. Promptly forget it is my guess.

Another name related question would be has any team ever lined three people with the same first name in the backfield (QB, RB, RB). This is assuming the Rodgers, Jones and Ripkowski ever lined up together. I don't know if they did.

 

[Dantés]

Go get Kris Richard

 

[OldSchool101]

The longstanding argument of "Scheme vs Talent" (or lack thereof) has been answered by recent events. First we have not one but 2 secondary players excel in other schemes during the same year. I don't remember the source, but I recall recently where there was a comment between Hyde and Hayward to the effect that "isn't it great to be allowed to play to your ability" (not necessarily those exact words but you get the sentiment) That is slight on the DC if ever there was one. Then to back it up Dom Capers is gone within weeks of that report.
I guess what I'm saying is that we know the scheme was obviously the larger issue at hand and we don't even need to be football scholars to see that week in and week out, because as fans we each lived it. It was like a bad relationship that wouldn't end
It's apparent the front office really likes Whitt or he's shown some remarkable traits because yes, like you said he should've went down with the anchor being tied to this mess.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just because a guy is highly respected doesn't necessarily mean he is a good coach or would make a good coordinator. When your defensive backfield is as bad as ours was it is a perfectly legitimate question to wonder why the coach of that unit is held in such high regard.

That said I'm perfectly willing to accept MMs decision to keep him around. If it was indeed all Capers' fault then perhaps he is what we all thought he was.

Wouldn't this be our worst nightmare, if we found out it was actually all Joe Whitt's fault and Capers actually was a great DC?

It would be interesting to know if, since the hiring of Holmgren, the packers have employed a disproportionately high number of coaching personnel named Mike. Not interesting enough for me to actually look it up but interesting none the less.

OK I did look it up. Looks like since 1990 there have been 6 Mikes, 5 Joes, 5 John/Jon/Johnny and 5 Jim/James. Certainly as far as the top dog is concerned the Mikes have it. Now that I am armed with that information I have no idea what I am going to do with it. Promptly forget it is my guess.

Another name related question would be has any team ever lined three people with the same first name in the backfield (QB, RB, RB). This is assuming the Rodgers, Jones and Ripkowski ever lined up together. I don't know if they did.

First, I want what you have been drinking.

To answer your final question, if a team has lined up 3 guys with the same first name, my money is on all 3 of the guys names were either, Mike, Joe, John or Jim.