Joe Barry is our new DC

[Heyjoe4]

The defense under Barry and through Campbell took on a very different character than what I've seen for the last 10 years imo. It just looked, felt and smelled different. Much more proactively aggressive. I really like it and want to see more of it. I still believe we need one more turnover creating ballhawk that believes the endzone belongs to him.

Agreed. The ILB position especially, from AJ Hawk to Blake Martinez, was manned by guys who could tackle, just not very often behind the LOS. They didn't create sacks. They didn't cover receivers or TEs.

And the NFL has changed. ILBs used to be pure headbangers back to the days of Nitschke. Now they have to be much more agile, big, and strong. They have to stop the run, drop into coverage, and still get after the QB. I hope Walker is the guy you describe. But yeah they need another ballhawk.

 

[Poppa San]

ILBs used to be pure headbangers back to the days of Nitschke. Now they have to be much more agile, big, and strong.

IIRC during the SB runs, Nitschke was physically one of the largest players on the roster, linemen included.

 

[Heyjoe4]

IIRC during the SB runs, Nitschke was physically one of the largest players on the roster, linemen included.

Yeah I mean the linemen in those days, back in the 60s, weren't much bigger than 250 lbs. if I recall correctly. Nitschke really stood out. Now the lineman are all 300 plus lbs and are starting to run sun 5 40s. Unreal how the game has changed and will keep changing.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You need to slow you roll and look at stats closer and not just grab numbers out of thin air. In the first 8 games of the 2021 season the Packers defense gave up 167 points. In the next 8 games....167 points. The 17th game was against Detroit and I think we can throw that one out, given that starters sat out a good part of the game.

Now if one wants to break it down game by game and look at the offenses that the defense faced, as well as injuries, weather, etc....we would learn even more.

Personally, I thought Barry and his defense improved as the season went, despite mounting injuries to key players.

The Packers actually ranked third in points allowed over the first 10 games of the season (18.0) but dropped to 28th over the last seven games (27.3).

Overall, Barry did a better job than I expected considering Z and Alexander missed most of the season.

I also believe a few of those games were against back up QBs.

The Packers had two games against backup quarterbacks last season vs. the Ravens (Tyler Huntley) and the second one against the Vikings (Sean Mannion).

Also, I wonder how much that Saints' game last year affected stats.

The Packers ranked ninth in points as well as 11th in yards allowed after week 1 last season.

 

[Sanguine camper]

While the defense only played two back up qb's, they played a lot of below average qb's in Fields, Goff, Heinicke, Gorappalo, an ailing Rothlisberger, Wilson and a horrible Mayfield. That's 11 games out of 17 with qb's that don't scare you. 12 if you include Jamis Winston who they managed to allow a 130 qb rating. The hefty run of below average offenses had a lot to do with their success though they had good games against KC and Az. While I also think the defense appeared to play more aggressive than Petine's units, perhaps they were lucky in seeing a lot of below average qb's or injured star qb's. The points allowed and yards per game appears to be less impressive when viewed in context of their oppossing qb's.

 

[Mondio]

Most teams don't have great QB's. Most teams play the majority of their schedule against barely average QB's or worse. That goes for the "best" teams and the "worst" teams.
GB faced some bad teams, they faced some good teams, they generally did pretty well against the better teams they faced especially on defense.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

One advantage the Packer defense has over other teams is that they don't have to Aaron Rodgers.

And that they do get to practice against him.

 

[gopkrs]

The Packers ranked ninth in points as well as 11th in yards allowed after week 1 last season.

I'm surprised it wasn't worse than that. I guess it was just sitting and watching the Saints on offense most of the day. Seemed like an awful lot of first downs.

 

[PikeBadger]

Most teams don't have great QB's. Most teams play the majority of their schedule against barely average QB's or worse. That goes for the "best" teams and the "worst" teams.
GB faced some bad teams, they faced some good teams, they generally did pretty well against the better teams they faced especially on defense.

Excellent point that is seldom made. No one is ever running a gauntlet of great QB's every week in any year in the NFL. This narrative of facing lousy competition is just an old stand by for negative Nancy's trying to diminish the Packers on field successes. Happens every year on this forum.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Excellent point that is seldom made. No one is ever running a gauntlet of great QB's every week in any year in the NFL. This narrative of facing lousy competition is just an old stand by for negative Nancy's trying to diminish the Packers on field successes. Happens every year on this forum.

Another thing to consider is that teams, even poor teams, step it up for the Packers. Beating Rodgers can be a high point in an otherwise disappointing season.

Competition tends to rise (and sometimes fall) based on the opponent. I think the Packers usually get the best from whomever they play.

 

[Sanguine camper]

I would assert that in a lot of seasons the Packers face good quarterbacks more than 30% of the time that they did last year with usually predictable results. Not to say the defense is garbage or trending in the wrong direction, its just that last year's defense needs to be compared in context rather than through rose colored glasses.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I would assert that in a lot of seasons the Packers face good quarterbacks more than 30% of the time that they did last year with usually predictable results. Not to say the defense is garbage or trending in the wrong direction, its just that last year's defense needs to be compared in context rather than through rose colored glasses.

I thought the Packer defense did a pretty fair job against the Super Bowl champion Rams last season - The Rams only possessed the football a little over 20 minutes and had three turnovers.

I would think Stafford qualifies as a good quarterback, no?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I thought the Packer defense did a pretty fair job against the Super Bowl champion Rams last season - The Rams only possessed the football a little over 20 minutes and had three turnovers.

I would think Stafford qualifies as a good quarterback, no?

Yeah. Stafford just needed a good team to play with. The Rams gave up a lot for him, but they got their Lombardi trophy. Hope that happens in GB.

 

[PikeBadger]

I thought the Packer defense did a pretty fair job against the Super Bowl champion Rams last season - The Rams only possessed the football a little over 20 minutes and had three turnovers.

I would think Stafford qualifies as a good quarterback, no?

Exactly. The defense played very tough ball against good teams last year. They fought hard and were able to make crucial stops. A few more turnovers this year would certainly be a welcome sight.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Exactly. The defense played very tough ball against good teams last year. They fought hard and were able to make crucial stops. A few more turnovers this year would certainly be a welcome sight.

Yep. Too bad they couldn't match the Niners in points off turnovers. Well the D should be even better this year. Good things on the way.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

So you think you know who is capable of being a successful DC under LaFleur???

As mentioned in the thread I was open-minded to having a linebacker coach as DC. Not sure what you're getting at reviving old posts and not mentioning all their posts in the same thread.

 

[Sanguine camper]

I thought the Packer defense did a pretty fair job against the Super Bowl champion Rams last season - The Rams only possessed the football a little over 20 minutes and had three turnovers.

I would think Stafford qualifies as a good quarterback, no?

Certainly Stafford is one of the upper echelon qb's. Good enough to lead his team to a SB win. Even though be throws too many picks for my preference, the Rams were still able to put up 28. Glad he doesn't play in the North division any more.

 

[OldSchool101]

Something else to consider. Pettine should be judged by a full line of work in his tenure at GB (verses using his final season ranking only) Rounded off he was 15th in points allowed and 15th in yards.

Joe came in his first season here at 13th allowed and 9th yards

Conceivably he should improve very slightly with similar personnel. However we’ve added 2 Day selections and possibly have J’aire back also.

I believe this D ceiling is Top 5 area in scoring.
I see the 2022 D floor at around Top 12 range in scoring.
The over/under is #8 overall.

Just my guesses.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While the defense only played two back up qb's, they played a lot of below average qb's in Fields, Goff, Heinicke, Gorappalo, an ailing Rothlisberger, Wilson and a horrible Mayfield. That's 11 games out of 17 with qb's that don't scare you. 12 if you include Jamis Winston who they managed to allow a 130 qb rating. The hefty run of below average offenses had a lot to do with their success though they had good games against KC and Az. While I also think the defense appeared to play more aggressive than Petine's units, perhaps they were lucky in seeing a lot of below average qb's or injured star qb's. The points allowed and yards per game appears to be less impressive when viewed in context of their oppossing qb's.

For the record, the starting quarterback the Packers faced last season combined to put up a passer rating of 95.22, above the league average of 90.77.

I'm surprised it wasn't worse than that. I guess it was just sitting and watching the Saints on offense most of the day. Seemed like an awful lot of first downs.

Just to clarify, the Packers were ranked ninth in points and 11th in yards allowed from week 2 until week 18. While they gave up a lot of points against the Saints they didn't allow a ton of yards in that game (actually slightly below their average for the entire season).

 

[Heyjoe4]

Something else to consider. Pettine should be judged by a full line of work in his tenure at GB (verses using his final season ranking only) Rounded off he was 15th in points allowed and 15th in yards.

Joe came in his first season here at 13th allowed and 9th yards

Conceivably he should improve very slightly with similar personnel. However we’ve added 2 Day selections and possibly have J’aire back also.

I believe this D ceiling is Top 5 area in scoring.
I see the 2022 D floor at around Top 12 range in scoring.
The over/under is #8 overall.

Just my guesses.

Those are reasonable guesses. I'll be happy if the D is more consistent than last year. Aside from the Saints game, it seemed they started fast, then regressed, then really came on strong in the lone playoff appearance.

Now last year they missed Alexander for 13 games, Stokes was a rookie (a good one), and Clark was pretty much alone on the iDL. The play of Campbell and then Douglas offset some of that. Anyway, they should be better this year, especially if Walker and Wyatt live up to their first-round billing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No one is ever running a gauntlet of great QB's every week in any year in the NFL. This narrative of facing lousy competition is just an old stand by for negative Nancy's trying to diminish the Packers on field successes. Happens every year on this forum.

As they say...."On any given Sunday." I originally just grabbed the points given up per game, as a quick comparison. But those don't take into account a whole lot of things, which people have brought up (injuries for both teams, weather, location, etc.). For me it was the overall eye test of the defense and the 2021 defense looked better and more cohesive than the defenses we have seen for some time. That doesn't mean they will shut down every team, but as long as they keep creating and getting turnovers, this defense is going to be one that will actually win us some games.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Excellent point that is seldom made. No one is ever running a gauntlet of great QB's every week in any year in the NFL. This narrative of facing lousy competition is just an old stand by for negative Nancy's trying to diminish the Packers on field successes. Happens every year on this forum.

Part of the problem is that people can cherry-pick stats to "prove" whatever they want. I don't care for stats. I care for what I see every week, and of course I care about wins. Seems the Packers have been doing very well since MLF came on board, Gluten has managed personnel well overall, and the D showed a big improvement last year and should be better this year.

Yeah the WR and TE groups look shaky, but no team can master all positions in a season. The WRs and TEs are critical for production. I think that is still being worked on, and I'm not ready to say that it's gonna doom the Packers this year. The team has more talent across the board than I've seen in years.

 

[OldSchool101]

Part of the problem is that people can cherry-pick stats to "prove" whatever they want. I don't care for stats. I care for what I see every week, and of course I care about wins. Seems the Packers have been doing very well since MLF came on board, Gluten has managed personnel well overall, and the D showed a big improvement last year and should be better this year.

Yeah the WR and TE groups look shaky, but no team can master all positions in a season. The WRs and TEs are critical for production. I think that is still being worked on, and I'm not ready to say that it's gonna doom the Packers this year. The team has more talent across the board than I've seen in years.

I can see that. Although I generally support using stats.

As you said, the most important stat is Wins vs Losses.

For me, the 2nd most important stat is Points scored. I say that because whoever scores the most points wins the game. It’s more important to have points than yards. We can take the ball 90 yards down the field, but if we don’t come away with points? We actually missed our goal. That’s why finishing in the Red Zone is so important.

I also like that stats give a general indicator for areas of improvement. We will notice that the teams who win Championships (ultimate goal) tend to have the best overall stats. we’d be hard pressed to find a Champion caliber team who’s stats we’re not good. Going back through historic statistical records, nearly every SB Champion was top half of the league on both Offense AND Defensive scoring with very rare exception.

Stats are a tool that should not be discounted entirely. But as with probability, sometimes coaches similar to your “feel” have to use their “flow of the game” to decide how to win. So occasionally, we go contrary to what the numbers tell us.

So how I’ve witnessed it, is its a combination of the eye test and stats combined that work best. I’d really like to see Joe Barry crack the top #8 on Defense in Scoring because that absolutely will improve our odds of going the distance. Net Turnover ratio is another complimentary stat that is nearly always consistent with Winners.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I can see that. Although I generally support using stats.

As you said, the most important stat is Wins vs Losses.

For me, the 2nd most important stat is Points scored. I say that because whoever scores the most points wins the game. It’s more important to have points than yards. We can take the ball 90 yards down the field, but if we don’t come away with points? We actually missed our goal. That’s why finishing in the Red Zone is so important.

I also like that stats give a general indicator for areas of improvement. We will notice that the teams who win Championships (ultimate goal) tend to have the best overall stats. we’d be hard pressed to find a Champion caliber team who’s stats we’re not good. Going back through historic statistical records, nearly every SB Champion was top half of the league on both Offense AND Defensive scoring with very rare exception.

Stats are a tool that should not be discounted entirely. But as with probability, sometimes coaches similar to your “feel” have to use their “flow of the game” to decide how to win. So occasionally, we go contrary to what the numbers tell us.

So how I’ve witnessed it, is its a combination of the eye test and stats combined that work best. I’d really like to see Joe Barry crack the top #8 on Defense in Scoring because that absolutely will improve our odds of going the distance. Net Turnover ratio is another complimentary stat that is nearly always consistent with Winners.

I completely agree and did not mean to dismiss stats at all. There are stats that I watch as well. You mentioned red zone efficiency. That's big. Driving 90 yards and coming away with no points (another huge stat) puts the yardage gained in perspective.

Another in-game stat I watch is Time of Possession. If a team dominates here, the opposing D is likely to be very fatigues in Q4. That can certainly drive the play calling.

Anyway, stats are important. I'm hoping for a top 5 D this year. I'll take top 8!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I completely agree and did not mean to dismiss stats at all. There are stats that I watch as well. You mentioned red zone efficiency. That's big.

The Packers significantly regressed on offense in red zone efficiency last season. While they led the league in points scored per opportunity in 2020 they dropped to 19th last season.