Joe Barry is our new DC

[Heyjoe4]

I agree there's no reason to consider hiring Barry as an awful move at this point by any means.

And it was good to wait. Barry had an up and down season, strong early, weak later, and a very strong finish. There were also a lot of injuries. I was happy with what he did, especially after all those years of Capers.

Now Barry is likely the envy of his peers. Barring injury, this will be the real test of his coaching abilities. Having a ton of talent is one thing. Deploying it properly week after week is another. I expect he'll succeed. And that's timely because it seems the O is gonna take a step back at least early and until Rodgers can connect with these new WRs. Oh, and we need a TE.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And Barry had a schizophrenic first season. Roughly the first half the D was great, giving up about 14 ppg. Then in the second half that ballooned to 27 ppg. Then there was that awesome recovery where the D kept the Niners out of the end zone in the playoffs.

You need to slow you roll and look at stats closer and not just grab numbers out of thin air. In the first 8 games of the 2021 season the Packers defense gave up 167 points. In the next 8 games....167 points. The 17th game was against Detroit and I think we can throw that one out, given that starters sat out a good part of the game.

Now if one wants to break it down game by game and look at the offenses that the defense faced, as well as injuries, weather, etc....we would learn even more.

Personally, I thought Barry and his defense improved as the season went, despite mounting injuries to key players.

 

[Heyjoe4]

You need to slow you roll and look at stats closer and not just grab numbers out of thin air. In the first 8 games of the 2021 season the Packers defense gave up 167 points. In the next 8 games....167 points. The 17th game was against Detroit and I think we can throw that one out, given that starters sat out a good part of the game.

Now if one wants to break it down game by game and look at the offenses that the defense faced, as well as injuries, weather, etc....we would learn even more.

Personally, I thought Barry and his defense improved as the season went, despite mounting injuries to key players.

Well I guess all that's important is that the D ended strong, in spite of injuries. They did seem to sag a bit mid-year after a strong start. It doesn't matter actually so there's no point in debating it.

The D should only get better this year, and I mean Top 5 better. The team certainly didn't fail last year because of the D. I don't remember the last time we could say that. Bottom line is Barry had done a very good job.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Had to eat crow on this one. I was adamantly opposed to Barry at DC and he vastly exceeded my expectations. I do think people are going overboard on the defense though. Football Outsiders adjusts for opponent strength and the defense was 22nd last year in DVOA; i think fans forget that the packers didn’t face a lot of good offenses last season (Seattle, Rams, and 49ers were about it, though they played well against those teams).

I do expect the defense to be very good this season, I’m just hesitant to believe they’ll be a top-5 defense.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Had to eat crow on this one. I was adamantly opposed to Barry at DC and he vastly exceeded my expectations. I do think people are going overboard on the defense though. Football Outsiders adjusts for opponent strength and the defense was 22nd last year in DVOA; i think fans forget that the packers didn’t face a lot of good offenses last season (Seattle, Rams, and 49ers were about it, though they played well against those teams).

I do expect the defense to be very good this season, I’m just hesitant to believe they’ll be a top-5 defense.

Yeah there's the D on paper, and then what the D did at the end of the season. Looks like a Top 5 D. Gotta play the games though.

 

[OldSchool101]

If we fare well on the injury front, I think we might have a chance at cracking top 5 Defense in scoring allowed.
I see us as finishing #6-10 overall this season in scoring allowed.
Plus or minus.

For once it will be the Offense in question. If they get some mojo by mid season Offensively? We could be very formidable by Postseason. This team reminds me of a young version of 2020 Tampa

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

i think fans forget that the packers didn’t face a lot of good offenses last season (Seattle, Rams, and 49ers were about it, though they played well against those teams).

You left out Bengals, Cardinals, Vikings (twice) and Ravens. I'm going off of PPG scored.

The worst offense that the Packer faced was the Bears (twice). However, there were 5 teams worse than them, none of who the Packers played. So I wouldn't say that the Packers didn't face good offenses. Even the Saints, until injuries hurt them, were a good offense in week 1.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Had to eat crow on this one. I was adamantly opposed to Barry at DC and he vastly exceeded my expectations. I do think people are going overboard on the defense though. Football Outsiders adjusts for opponent strength and the defense was 22nd last year in DVOA; i think fans forget that the packers didn’t face a lot of good offenses last season (Seattle, Rams, and 49ers were about it, though they played well against those teams).

I do expect the defense to be very good this season, I’m just hesitant to believe they’ll be a top-5 defense.

I'm usually with you Sunshine but I think the Packers faced their fair share of tough offenses last year. Poker spells some of em out.

It was just one year, the performance of the D was a little bit up and down, and they played their best game against the Niners when it really counted. So with the players resigned, the additions of Quay and Wyatt - this looks on paper like a Top 5 D. Now they gotta prove it.

And I'll eat a little crow with you. I didn't like the Barry pick. It seemed rushed and he din't have a stellar resume. But a new environment and a new and bright HC can make a difference, as can Lambeau field. I attribute at least some of Barry's success to the coaching of MLF.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'm usually with you Sunshine but I think the Packers faced their fair share of tough offenses last year. Poker spells some of em out.

It was just one year, the performance of the D was a little bit up and down, and they played their best game against the Niners when it really counted. So with the players resigned, the additions of Quay and Wyatt - this looks on paper like a Top 5 D. Now they gotta prove it.

And I'll eat a little crow with you. I didn't like the Barry pick. It seemed rushed and he din't have a stellar resume. But a new environment and a new and bright HC can make a difference, as can Lambeau field. I attribute at least some of Barry's success to the coaching of MLF.

I've seen a few people say this, so I'll just post offensive DVOA ranks for last season's opponents below:

Saints - 23rd
Lions - 29th
49ers - 5th
Steelers - 25th
Bengals - 18th
Bears - 26th
Washington - 21st
Cardinals - 15th
Chiefs - 3rd
Seahawks - 7th
Vikings - 16th
Rams - 8th
Ravens - 17th
Browns - 14th


They played 4 top-10 offenses, and generally did pretty well against them. They played 8 teams that were average or worse; so they played 11 games against subpar offenses (since the NFC North is trash outside of Green Bay). I think the Packers will field a good defense this season, with the Jaire coming back and the addition of the rookies, but I'm just not willing to say they're an elite defense quite yet.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I've seen a few people say this, so I'll just post offensive DVOA ranks for last season's opponents below:

Saints - 23rd
Lions - 29th
49ers - 5th
Steelers - 25th
Bengals - 18th
Bears - 26th
Washington - 21st
Cardinals - 15th
Chiefs - 3rd
Seahawks - 7th
Vikings - 16th
Rams - 8th
Ravens - 17th
Browns - 14th


They played 4 top-10 offenses, and generally did pretty well against them. They played 8 teams that were average or worse; so they played 11 games against subpar offenses (since the NFC North is trash outside of Green Bay). I think the Packers will field a good defense this season, with the Jaire coming back and the addition of the rookies, but I'm just not willing to say they're an elite defense quite yet.

Point made. You can't call them an elite D based on last year's opponents, as you outline.

Now with Alexander back, Campbell, Douglas, and P. Smith resigned, and the additions of Quay and Walker - on paper that looks like an elite, Top 5 D. On paper. They have to play the games first. Trust but verify, as Reagan used to say.

 

[Schultz]

I've seen a few people say this, so I'll just post offensive DVOA ranks for last season's opponents below:

Saints - 23rd
Lions - 29th
49ers - 5th
Steelers - 25th
Bengals - 18th
Bears - 26th
Washington - 21st
Cardinals - 15th
Chiefs - 3rd
Seahawks - 7th
Vikings - 16th
Rams - 8th
Ravens - 17th
Browns - 14th


They played 4 top-10 offenses, and generally did pretty well against them. They played 8 teams that were average or worse; so they played 11 games against subpar offenses (since the NFC North is trash outside of Green Bay). I think the Packers will field a good defense this season, with the Jaire coming back and the addition of the rookies, but I'm just not willing to say they're an elite defense quite yet.

Is this their end of season ranking or their ranking at the time they played GB? I also believe a few of those games were against back up QBs.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Is this their end of season ranking or their ranking at the time they played GB? I also believe a few of those games were against back up QBs.

Good question. The Saints put up 38 points against GB in week 1, but are ranked 23. I believe the Saints went downhill from there. My guess is that these are end of season rankings, but Sunshine will know.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think it’s fair to express skepticism as well.
Making a bold definitive statement that the hire was awful, plain and simple puts him on a limb of questionable strength 30 feet off the ground. Some of us have long memories and will not hesitate to laugh hysterically and chide him if that limb breaks.
Stuff like that is how we end up with threads like “Front office under fire” and “Fire Gute” junk. Knee jerk nonsense from the cheap seats.

I don't know if I commented on it. I wasn't happy with the selection of Barry. I was wrong. It happens to all of us and sometimes it's best to wait. He's done a fine job and I expect even better things ahead.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Is this their end of season ranking or their ranking at the time they played GB? I also believe a few of those games were against back up QBs.

End of season

 

[GB psyco]

Chiding you for your ridiculously worded post, and laughing hysterically at this post. Yes, it's ok to be critical, but only if your prognosis is correct.

Not my best effort, I'll give you that. Point being in a sober state that of mind is I hated the hire a year ago. Now it appears its not so bad, I'll try to do better in the future

 

[PikeBadger]

Not my best effort, I'll give you that. Point being in a sober state that of mind is I hated the hire a year ago. Now it appears its not so bad, I'll try to do better in the future

agree. Thanks for the mea culpa. Keyboards and alcohol are a poor mix.

 

[OldSchool101]

agree. Thanks for the mea culpa. Keyboards and alcohol are a poor mix.

Just ask Brett Favre.
Of course it was probably more a mixture of alcohol, barbiturates and his phone camera. Lol

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Yeah? Please explain

No you.

 

[PikeBadger]

No you.

So you think you know who is capable of being a successful DC under LaFleur???

 

[ARPackFan]

The 2020 defense under Pettine was ranked 13th in points, 9th in yards allowed.
The 2021 defense under Barry was ranked 13th in points, 9th in yards allowed.


The defense looked better to me but the overall results appear much the same. Not exactly overwhelming evidence that proves Barry is any better/worse than Pettine. Capers in his first two years was able to produce a top 10 & top 5 defense before falling into mediocrity.

So when did having an opinion (right or wrong) become taboo on this board? Dragging up a thread with the last post over 14 months to do a "in you face" appears a bit childish IMO.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/index.htm

 

[longtimefan]

The 2020 defense under Pettine was ranked 13th in points, 9th in yards allowed.
The 2021 defense under Barry was ranked 13th in points, 9th in yards allowed.


The defense looked better to me but the overall results appear much the same. Not exactly overwhelming evidence that proves Barry is any better/worse than Pettine. Capers in his first two years was able to produce a top 10 & top 5 defense before falling into mediocrity.

So when did having an opinion (right or wrong) become taboo on this board? Dragging up a thread with the last post over 14 months to do a "in you face" appears a bit childish IMO.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/index.htm

What was missing between both seasons?

z smith , alexander hardly played

so to me, 2021 probably would blown 2020 off the chart of healthy

that's like comparing offense stats with Rodgers and with out

he may not have known it was an older post. I have searched for users or key words. Find what I wanted and quoted it with out knowing when it was posted

doesn't happen a lot, but that could be the case here.

or he could be just calling him out ..lol

 

[gopkrs]

So when did having an opinion (right or wrong) become taboo on this board? Dragging up a thread with the last post over 14 months to do a "in you face" appears a bit childish IMO.

I like it for a bit of reality check. You should own what you said. And I think we were more aggressive defensively last year. Pettine let us get nickled and dimed to death imho. 3 man rushes. Giving up 1sts on 3rd downs because of loose D. Shows to me again that you can pick and choose stats but they only tell the story the person picking wants them to tell. Also, I wonder how much that Saints' game last year affected stats. A couple of outliers can affect the outcome if you don't throw them out. But should you throw them out?

 

[PikeBadger]

The 2020 defense under Pettine was ranked 13th in points, 9th in yards allowed.
The 2021 defense under Barry was ranked 13th in points, 9th in yards allowed.


The defense looked better to me but the overall results appear much the same. Not exactly overwhelming evidence that proves Barry is any better/worse than Pettine. Capers in his first two years was able to produce a top 10 & top 5 defense before falling into mediocrity.

So when did having an opinion (right or wrong) become taboo on this board? Dragging up a thread with the last post over 14 months to do a "in you face" appears a bit childish IMO.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/index.htm

Opinions are fine. Wording matters. I think it's fair for interested posters to get an idea of which posters run fast and loose with their keyboard and have a history of knee jerk declarations and try to disguise it as fact. On a personal basis, it helps me to decide which posters bring thought provoking credibility to the table. I figure it might help others too. If that is childish, so be it.

 

[PikeBadger]

What was missing between both seasons?

z smith , alexander hardly played

so to me, 2021 probably would blown 2020 off the chart of healthy

that's like comparing offense stats with Rodgers and with out

he may not have known it was an older post. I have searched for users or key words. Find what I wanted and quoted it with out knowing when it was posted

doesn't happen a lot, but that could be the case here.

or he could be just calling him out ..lol

Lol, the latter I'm afraid. Guilty.

 

[PikeBadger]

The 2020 defense under Pettine was ranked 13th in points, 9th in yards allowed.
The 2021 defense under Barry was ranked 13th in points, 9th in yards allowed.


The defense looked better to me but the overall results appear much the same. Not exactly overwhelming evidence that proves Barry is any better/worse than Pettine. Capers in his first two years was able to produce a top 10 & top 5 defense before falling into mediocrity.

So when did having an opinion (right or wrong) become taboo on this board? Dragging up a thread with the last post over 14 months to do a "in you face" appears a bit childish IMO.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/index.htm

The defense under Barry and through Campbell took on a very different character than what I've seen for the last 10 years imo. It just looked, felt and smelled different. Much more proactively aggressive. I really like it and want to see more of it. I still believe we need one more turnover creating ballhawk that believes the endzone belongs to him.