It’s now OFFICIAL!!! Rodgers has been traded to the Jets.

[longtimefan]

This snapping the ball with 1 second on the play clock seemed to happen under MLF. If it happened in the McCarthy era, it was in the last year or 2, I don't remember it happening all that much earlier in the McCarthy era.

Happened with Mike a ton

 

[Firethorn1001]

You don't tell the generational all time greats to handicap themselves and the team because you don't like it.

Sorry, I didn't have Aaron's number to personally tell him.

Even if I did, not like he would have answered the call anyways.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For all we know, it had as much to do with all the Oline and weapons changes and the HC wanting to give them time to recognize and catch up before the snap. and MLF seems to like to run a slowed down offense IMO. I always got the sense he wanted to limit the number of plays they ran and more was not always better from him. Efficiency over quantity.

That's an interesting take. The Packers rank 12th in the league in seconds it took to snap the ball per play in 2017 at 27.57 seconds and 8th in '18 (27.16) in the last two seasons with McCarthy being the head coach. Since MLF took over they finished 28th in 2019 (28.86), 32nd in '20 (31.09) and '21 (30.54) as well as 31st last season (30.21).

 

[PikeBadger]

Love's performance will have a huge impact on the Packers winning games though. Therefore I expect Love has worked out pretty well if the team continues to be successful.

Approximate Value | Pro-Football-Reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

As I have mentioned I'm well aware it's far from perfect but I don't have access to a better method.



First of all I used Pro Football Reference (PFR) to come up with that ranking. It's fine if you want to put the work in to include all the things you suggested to evaluate draft success since 2018 but I don't want to.



Overall, including free agency I would grade Gutekunst with a B so far. The one thing I'm most impressed with is his ability to find gems for cheap deals like he did with Campbell, Douglas and Nixon. In addition I like that he's being active in free agency all season long.

Ok, I looked through the page from the link you sent. It looked to me like a way to break everything into data. It doesn't address draft positions, salary cap considerations, coaching effectiveness etc.
For me, I'll stick with things like eye test, wins/losses, player development and behavior. For me it's a little early to have great confidence in grading Gutekunst but I'd probably be in the A-/B+ neighborhood from what I've seen and read. I'm not an easy grader either. I firmly believe that when grading drafts, there should be as many F's given out as A's, as many D's as B's. The reason I believe that is because we all know that the D and F performing GM's are getting fired inside of 3 years.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ok, I looked through the page from the link you sent. It looked to me like a way to break everything into data. It doesn't address draft positions, salary cap considerations, coaching effectiveness etc.
For me, I'll stick with things like eye test, wins/losses, player development and behavior. For me it's a little early to have great confidence in grading Gutekunst but I'd probably be in the A-/B+ neighborhood from what I've seen and read. I'm not an easy grader either. I firmly believe that when grading drafts, there should be as many F's given out as A's, as many D's as B's. The reason I believe that is because we all know that the D and F performing GM's are getting fired inside of 3 years.

As I mentioned repeatedly the metric is far from perfect. But while you might be able to fairly evaluate the Packers' draft picks I'm all but certain you don't have as much information about most other teams in the league making it close to impossible to compare them. Therefore I consider their numbers to be better than the eye test of a fan of a specific team.

 

[PikeBadger]

As I mentioned repeatedly the metric is far from perfect. But while you might be able to fairly evaluate the Packers' draft picks I'm all but certain you don't have as much information about most other teams in the league making it close to impossible to compare them. Therefore I consider their numbers to be better than the eye test of a fan of a specific team.

If I'm right those numbers are past performance numbers. That doesn't tell me to what degree the coaches are affecting individual and positional results. Something I think that is very understated in all these discussions are draft position in each round. There are big differences in picks 1-3 and 2-35 compared to 1-29 and 2-62. Yet people seem to compare team's 1st and 2nd round players as if they are equal in level of natural ability, talent and skill.

 

[longtimefan]

Sorry, I didn't have Aaron's number to personally tell him.

Even if I did, not like he would have answered the call anyways.

He couldnt answer. Recall he doesn't get service? only does face time

 

[OldSchool101]

He couldnt answer. Recall he doesn't get service? only does face time

It’s one of the funnier things I’ve heard from his corner.

 

[OldSchool101]

If I'm right those numbers are past performance numbers. That doesn't tell me to what degree the coaches are affecting individual and positional results. Something I think that is very understated in all these discussions are draft position in each round. There are big differences in picks 1-3 and 2-35 compared to 1-29 and 2-62. Yet people seem to compare team's 1st and 2nd round players as if they are equal in level of natural ability, talent and skill.

Very true and as Packer fans we witness picking later rounds regular. If there was a league measurement in success rates they should use a points system. That way each draft pick would be scored by their draft points value and you’d get an equal comparison. Doing it by “round” will get us an idea, but doing it by a draft points value assigned to each selection would make it infallible.

I’d love to know that information. I’m not doing it by shorthand because it would take hours and it’s changing every draft. My Step brother is a legit Programmer and he likes the Pack simply because of me. I’ll ask if he could write a program on this so we can track it in here. If I can get him to do it I’ll display that info in here

 

[gopkrs]

Very true and as Packer fans we witness picking later rounds regular. If there was a league measurement in success rates they should use a points system. That way each draft pick would be scored by their draft points value and you’d get an equal comparison. Doing it by “round” will get us an idea, but doing it by a draft points value assigned to each selection would make it infallible.

I’d love to know that information. I’m not doing it by shorthand because it would take hours and it’s changing every draft. My Step brother is a legit Programmer and he likes the Pack simply because of me. I’ll ask if he could write a program on this so we can track it in here. If I can get him to do it I’ll display that info in here

Well yes but infallible? Please. Also, what they rarely take into consideration are trades and players received or lost no matter what year. How often do you see a F grade because a team had no 1st round pick but they ended up with an xlnt player? Absurd. It's not like the writers are lazy. More like just stupid.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well yes but infallible? Please. Also, what they rarely take into consideration are trades and players received or lost no matter what year. How often do you see a F grade because a team had no 1st round pick but they ended up with an xlnt player? Absurd. It's not like the writers are lazy. More like just stupid.

I agree I don’t grade like sports writers. If you averaged all the Experts’ letter grades for a Draft you’d get a leaguewide B+ average.

If “average” GM in any given year is a B+ Grade ?? then that “A” letter grade for a team is truly a B- because there’s a strong curve.

What I meant by using a Draft points grade is the draft placement should be applied. That’s the fair way to approach it as someone else in here already eluded to. A GM picking
#2 overall
2 (#34)
3 (#66)
4-2(#102)
verses a GM picking
#30 overall
2(62)
3(95)
4(130)

Shouldn’t just be graded against each other only by success in each Round

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If I'm right those numbers are past performance numbers. That doesn't tell me to what degree the coaches are affecting individual and positional results. Something I think that is very understated in all these discussions are draft position in each round. There are big differences in picks 1-3 and 2-35 compared to 1-29 and 2-62. Yet people seem to compare team's 1st and 2nd round players as if they are equal in level of natural ability, talent and skill.

There's no metric to evaluate how coaching affects individual performance. Actually there's no way of knowing for anyone.

As I have mentioned before, feel free to put in the work to include draft position in evaluating how Gutekunst has done compared to the rest of the league, I don't want to put in the work.

 

[PikeBadger]

Very true and as Packer fans we witness picking later rounds regular. If there was a league measurement in success rates they should use a points system. That way each draft pick would be scored by their draft points value and you’d get an equal comparison. Doing it by “round” will get us an idea, but doing it by a draft points value assigned to each selection would make it infallible.

I’d love to know that information. I’m not doing it by shorthand because it would take hours and it’s changing every draft. My Step brother is a legit Programmer and he likes the Pack simply because of me. I’ll ask if he could write a program on this so we can track it in here. If I can get him to do it I’ll display that info in here

That would be awesome and an extremely valuable service to this forum that could very easily be used for every team in the league.

 

[Poppa San]

My Step brother is a legit Programmer and he likes the Pack simply because of me. I’ll ask if he could write a program on this so we can track it in here. If I can get him to do it I’ll display that info in here

Maybe use the Jimmy Johnson or similar draft value chart and some type of results ranking by say PFF or PFR or some other statistical nerds. Bonus for All-Pro seasons.

 

[Voyageur]

That would be awesome and an extremely valuable service to this forum that could very easily be used for every team in the league.

Love the idea!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Old tweet, but I just saw this for the first time. If it was already mentioned and discussed, apologies. I didn't know the Patriots were trying to trade for Rodgers and he refused to go there. I could see him not wanting to be coached by Belichick for sure.

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[rmontro]

Old tweet, but I just saw this for the first time. If it was already mentioned and discussed, apologies. I didn't know the Patriots were trying to trade for Rodgers and he refused to go there. I could see him not wanting to be coached by Belichick for sure.

Yes, and not only that, I'm sure that would open an entire kettle of fish Rodgers would not want to open (comparisons with Brady). And for a third reason, I doubt Belichick would sign up his buddies either.

 

[milani]

Yes, and not only that, I'm sure that would open an entire kettle of fish Rodgers would not want to open (comparisons with Brady). And for a third reason, I doubt Belichick would sign up his buddies either.

And we will never know what if.

 

[Mavster]

You guys are overthinking this (as always). Why on Earth would Rodgers want to play for NE? I don't think the Jets are that great, but they at least have some young weapons on offense along w/ a quality defense. NE is flat out not very good so I don't blame him for not wanting to go there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You guys are overthinking this (as always). Why on Earth would Rodgers want to play for NE? I don't think the Jets are that great, but they at least have some young weapons on offense along w/ a quality defense. NE is flat out not very good so I don't blame him for not wanting to go there.

Definitely a possibility, but IMO the 2 bigger reasons were Brady and Belichick. I just can't see Rodgers wanting to put himself directly in the shadow of Tom Brady. Nor can I imagine him wanting to have Belichick as his coach. All just a guessing game and even if the Patriots were trying to trade for Rodgers and you asked Rodgers to go on record, as to why he refused the trade (if he did), you wouldn't get a straight answer.

 

[OldSchool101]

You guys are overthinking this (as always). Why on Earth would Rodgers want to play for NE? I don't think the Jets are that great, but they at least have some young weapons on offense along w/ a quality defense. NE is flat out not very good so I don't blame him for not wanting to go there.

I just think it’s more about friendships he’s made (respect) with Tom Brady. I think those 2 have an alliance of sorts. They’ve been friends off the field going back awhile now. Rodgers picks and chooses his friends carefully and he does give loyalty to the very few. Brady is one of those and I’ve said it before that Aaron won’t step on Tom nor would Tom step on Aaron’s turf (play for GB etc) Ain’t happening.

On top of that the NY fit was just much more appealing across the board.

 

[longtimefan]

You guys are overthinking this (as always). Why on Earth would Rodgers want to play for NE? I don't think the Jets are that great, but they at least have some young weapons on offense along w/ a quality defense. NE is flat out not very good so I don't blame him for not wanting to go there.

Hackett

 

[rmontro]

Brady is one of those and I’ve said it before that Aaron won’t step on Tom nor would Tom step on Aaron’s turf (play for GB etc) Ain’t happening.

On top of that the NY fit was just much more appealing across the board.

At Brady's age, would anyone in GB even want him to play here? I suppose there might be some.

I'm curious to see what Rodgers can do in NY, they have some talent. And if Rodgers succeeds, he can be a hero there. NE wasn't going to be impressed by anything short of a Super Bowl win.

 

[OldSchool101]

At Brady's age, would anyone in GB even want him to play here? I suppose there might be some.

I'm curious to see what Rodgers can do in NY, they have some talent. And if Rodgers succeeds, he can be a hero there. NE wasn't going to be impressed by anything short of a Super Bowl win.

There was a brief moment during Trade talks that rumors of Brady coming out of retirement were circulating. As an example, Brady signing with NY could’ve meant a nightmare for us. I just don’t think those 2 QB’s would do anything to create animosity was more my point. So that thought or concern was dispelled pretty quickly.

I very much agree on Rodgers. I’m also very curious. As much as I support our new QB, I do want Aaron to be successful. Looking across that roster and linking him with an OC he has full buy in with? it spells a league average Offense area or better. Great RB (if he’s healthy) Great mix of old a young WR. If that NY Defense resembles 2022, the Jets will cause all sorts of problems in the AFC. That AFC conference has been put on notice. They finally shake Brady and they get Mahommes and Rodgers. Rodgers will always be a Packer, even if he finishes up elsewhere. This is a better, fresh scenario for him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm still mad Corey Davis wasn't involved in this trade....or minimum Mims.

Sounds like the Jets are releasing Mims, if they can't find a trade partner. Maybe you will get your wish

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