It’s now OFFICIAL!!! Rodgers has been traded to the Jets.

rmontro

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Interesting. I hadn’t heard that.
Here's one of the links below. I don't know how reliable the source is, but it makes sense depending on the timeline. Once the Jets had traded for a couple of his buddies, I'm sure Aaron was sold on going there. I do remember the rumors about the Patriots being involved in the trade discussions though.

https://www.khon2.com/sports/sports...-says-aaron-rodgers-vetoed-trade-to-patriots/

When they faced each other both AR and BB were complimentary. Nothing but respect and praise. But, of course, in an actual working relationship it could have resulted much differently.
Oh yeah, I have no doubt they respect each other. But I still can't see them working together.
 

Schultz

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I see what you mean there. There’s lots of factors so I can see that.
I also agree it shouldn’t affect it, but this is Aaron Rodgers we’re talking about and he’s a ‘complicated fella’ to use someone else’s experiences. I just think Aaron was tough to work with and once he lobbied to get our GM fired? he pretty much set the course for sailing away on himself.

Ask yourself something. If a subordinate that was well respected tried to get you fired.. would you support them going forward? I’d say that Employee could be harmful to the company if you are Running the show as position of GM (key Executive). If you are a Colonel, would you let a Master Sergeant try to go rogue on you with mutiny?
It’s dangerous to the Brigade and even more dangerous to becoming Brigadier and that doesn’t change if they are one heck of an enlisted soldier.

That snow ball got rolling before his last contract though. What’s odd is that you project how we should’ve been in “Win Now” mode with Rodgers every other post. Then in this post you say we should NOT have been in “”Win Now” mode? (Not using every financial resource to retain and add players each season) You can’t take both positions. Now either you just innocently slipped up there, or you can’t stand Brian Gutenkunst. It’s another unwarranted attack on him.

Let’s get this out in the open. What are your thoughts on our GM, Brian Gutenkunst? How would you letter grade him?
Unless of course we are talking about Achilles. IMO.
 

pacmaniac

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Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but have you heard the reports that Rodgers blocked a trade to the Patriots before he ended up with the Jets? Assuming that is true:

I'm sure he didn't want to face all those comparisons to Tom Brady playing in New England. The fans there would likely boo him loudly when the offense stalled. I also can't imagine him playing for Belichick, seems like those two would be butting heads like crazy. It would be like the irresistable force and the immovable object.
Definitely would be a lose-lose situation for Rodgers to go to the Patriots, where he'd definitely be compared to Brady. Belichick would also tire of Rodgers going rogue and trying to play hero ball instead of taking what the defenses gave him like Brady always did. It's better for him to go to a franchise that hasn't won a Super Bowl in 54 years and try to become their savior.
 
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That snow ball got rolling before his last contract though. What’s odd is that you project how we should’ve been in “Win Now” mode with Rodgers every other post. Then in this post you say we should NOT have been in “”Win Now” mode? (Not using every financial resource to retain and add players each season) You can’t take both positions. Now either you just innocently slipped up there, or you can’t stand Brian Gutenkunst. It’s another unwarranted attack on him.

I have absolutely no idea what prompted you to believe that me mentioning it's not a smart way to handle the cap to have a player not on the roster anymore counting $40 million against it should be considered that I advocated for the Packers to not be in a win now mode while Rodgers was still around. In addition I don't understand why anyone would consider it to be an attack on Gutekunst either :eek:

Let’s get this out in the open. What are your thoughts on our GM, Brian Gutenkunst? How would you letter grade him?

At this point incomplete as I have no idea how the selection of Love works out. With that being said I believe that overall he has done a pretty good job so far. But like it or not he will mainly be remembered for how Love ends up performing.
 

milani

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Here's one of the links below. I don't know how reliable the source is, but it makes sense depending on the timeline. Once the Jets had traded for a couple of his buddies, I'm sure Aaron was sold on going there. I do remember the rumors about the Patriots being involved in the trade discussions though.

https://www.khon2.com/sports/sports...-says-aaron-rodgers-vetoed-trade-to-patriots/


Oh yeah, I have no doubt they respect each other. But I still can't see them working together.
Both hard headed.
 

milani

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I have absolutely no idea what prompted you to believe that me mentioning it's not a smart way to handle the cap to have a player not on the roster anymore counting $40 million against it should be considered that I advocated for the Packers to not be in a win now mode while Rodgers was still around. In addition I don't understand why anyone would consider it to be an attack on Gutekunst either :eek:



At this point incomplete as I have no idea how the selection of Love works out. With that being said I believe that overall he has done a pretty good job so far. But like it or not he will mainly be remembered for how Love ends up performing.
I like Gute as well. However, he was not able to capitalize on the final portion of Rodgers career in Green Bay. He certainly tried. And responsibility for that is shared. The chance to win a SB in his career may never come again. With that said if he is here as long as Ted Thompson was we can give him his fair due.
 
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At this point incomplete as I have no idea how the selection of Love works out. With that being said I believe that overall he has done a pretty good job so far. But like it or not he will mainly be remembered for how Love ends up performing.
Fair enough. Obviously he’s still a relatively young GM.
We don’t really know about Love yet I think we all agree on that. I’d also put Walker and Wyatt and any 2023 Draft picks in that category also.

If we look at all Draft picks from 2018-2021, plus all FA signings and possibly weight then by Draft order or $$ spent (FA). Then looking at Coaching hirings etc..
*We could argue that Savage was a wasted pick, but he’s still here and he was a bonus selection. We could argue we could’ve used a #30 selection or 4th in 2020. So let’s just say we struck out at #30 in 2020, because it’s true we’ve gotten very little value to date.

how would you letter grade Gute this far? Against peers from 2018-2021
 
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milani

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Fair enough. Obviously he’s still a relatively young GM.
We don’t really know about Love yet I think we all agree on that. I’d also put Walker and Wyatt and any 2023 Draft picks in that category also.

If we look at all Draft picks from 2018-2021, plus all FA signings and possibly weight then by Draft order or $$ spent (FA)
how would you letter grade Gute?
After 5 seasons I would give him a B. After Ted Thompson's first 5 seasons I would give him a C. Thompson had only 2 playoff appearances and one NFC Championship appearance. Gute has 3 playoffs and 2 NFC Championship appearances. Both had a HOF QB on the roster although TT had 2 different ones.
 

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Definitely would be a lose-lose situation for Rodgers to go to the Patriots, where he'd definitely be compared to Brady. Belichick would also tire of Rodgers going rogue and trying to play hero ball instead of taking what the defenses gave him like Brady always did. It's better for him to go to a franchise that hasn't won a Super Bowl in 54 years and try to become their savior.
And come up just short like Favre? Hate to say it, and I mean no ill will when I say this, but Rodgers seems to have become an expert on coming up short.

Remember all the conversations that would speculate on how many championships Rodgers would have had if he was on the Patriots? It's still an interesting question, but of course no one can really answer it.
 
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After 5 seasons I would give him a B. After Ted Thompson's first 5 seasons I would give him a C. Thompson had only 2 playoff appearances and one NFC Championship appearance. Gute has 3 playoffs and 2 NFC Championship appearances. Both had a HOF QB on the roster although TT had 2 different ones.
I’d say a B+ Average being a C grade. Obviously I agree that the Love draft selection will be heavily weighted. I say that because we did walk a HOF QB to go completely opposite direction. He’s our Tour guide now and Brian is saying this jungle path is a short cut with Amazing views. If we fall off a cliff or even have to backtrack or get lost? It’ll damage his reputation as a Tour Guide, but not ruin it.
That 1 selection with either put him at A+ or C-
In addition, who knows what becomes of Walker, Watson, LVN, Reed, Kraft, our bonus 2024 Day 1 draftee etc.. Some of those were also gained assets from losing Davante and Rodgers and should be factored into his report card in a couple years.

If we see amazing views and see incredible waterfalls and rare, beautiful plants springing up along the way, maybe get to our vacation destination a little faster than expectations? everyone will suddenly want Gute to take them on Exotic tours.
 
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pacmaniac

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And come up just short like Favre? Hate to say it, and I mean no ill will when I say this, but Rodgers seems to have become an expert on coming up short.
I would not be surprised at all if the Jets lose in the conference championship game. Unless the Jets' defense can pitch a shutout, which it certainly could.
 

milani

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I’d say a B+ Average being a C grade. Obviously I agree that the Love draft selection will be heavily weighted. I say that because we did walk a HOF QB to go completely opposite direction. He’s our Tour guide now and Brian is saying this jungle path is a short cut with Amazing views. If we fall off a cliff or even have to backtrack or get lost? It’ll damage his reputation as a Tour Guide, but not ruin it.
That 1 selection with either put him at A+ or C-
In addition, who knows what becomes of Walker, Watson, LVN, Reed, Kraft, our bonus 2024 Day 1 draftee etc.. Some of those were also gained assets from losing Davante and Rodgers and should be factored into his report card in a couple years.

If we see amazing views and see incredible waterfalls and rare, beautiful plants springing up along the way, maybe get to our vacation destination a little faster than expectations? everyone will suddenly want Gute to take them on Exotic tours.
At least Gute likes to pull the trigger. His predecessor had a tendency to leave his weapon in its holster.
 

rmontro

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I would not be surprised at all if the Jets lose in the conference championship game. Unless the Jets' defense can pitch a shutout, which it certainly could.
That would be a big improvement for the Jets, for sure.
 
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I like Gute as well. However, he was not able to capitalize on the final portion of Rodgers career in Green Bay. He certainly tried. And responsibility for that is shared. The chance to win a SB in his career may never come again. With that said if he is here as long as Ted Thompson was we can give him his fair due.

If Love doesn't work out I highly doubt Gutekunst will be the team's general manager as long as Thompson. Especially considering there will be a new president in charge in 2025.

If we look at all Draft picks from 2018-2021, plus all FA signings and possibly weight then by Draft order or $$ spent (FA). Then looking at Coaching hirings etc..
*We could argue that Savage was a wasted pick, but he’s still here and he was a bonus selection. We could argue we could’ve used a #30 selection or 4th in 2020. So let’s just say we struck out at #30 in 2020, because it’s true we’ve gotten very little value to date.

how would you letter grade Gute this far? Against peers from 2018-2021

As I posted in another thread the Packers rank 19th in PFR's approximate value added in the draft since 2018. Therefore I would grade Gutekunst with a C in the draft so far.
 

milani

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If Love doesn't work out I highly doubt Gutekunst will be the team's general manager as long as Thompson. Especially considering there will be a new president in charge in 2025.



As I posted in another thread the Packers rank 19th in PFR's approximate value added in the draft since 2018. Therefore I would grade Gutekunst with a C in the draft so far.
Gute will be the GM so long as the Packers can win football games regardless of what happens to Love. Thompson kept the job because the team won games. In fact he had 2 HOF QBs his entire tenure but made only one SB appearance despite that. The Packers could win a SB without a HOF QB. Many teams have and still do.
 

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If Love doesn't work out I highly doubt Gutekunst will be the team's general manager as long as Thompson. Especially considering there will be a new president in charge in 2025.



As I posted in another thread the Packers rank 19th in PFR's approximate value added in the draft since 2018. Therefore I would grade Gutekunst with a C in the draft so far.
I'd really like to know their formula and understand it before I'd commit to using them as a reference for grading the GM.
 

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I have no idea on the formula, where I see Gute as much above average is in finding real playmakers. He's picked some great ones in a couple years. His use of trades to increase values is above average IMO. His use of FA has mostly been hits without crippling anything when time to go etc.

But he's had some whiffs and that dang 3rd round just kills him and brings it back down to earth or more average in any grading scales I imagine. Have to take the good and the bad.
 
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As I posted in another thread the Packers rank 19th in PFR's approximate value added in the draft since 2018.
PFF is likely a raw number that’s grading each drafted player individually (naturally weighting early picks heavier) and then combining the sum of those selections per franchise. So with all due respect that draft letter grade is skewed with just 1 selection alone. As an example Darnell Savage was acquired with a 3rd Rounder, do they specifically factor him as such? Very Doubtfully. Using raw grades he’s a #21 overall on the surface. He’s factored where’s he’s drafted. So we need to peel the PFF onion grade a little there and get his real value based on a later 3rd Rounder. Christian Watson (natural #59 overall was spent but he’s graded at #33 etc. Quay Walker, Musgrave and next years Day1 will all similarly be “bonus” draft picks either partially or wholly. In my mind those should offset or compensate for 3rd round draft misses etc. Does PFF consider that into the ranking equation? Maybe they do, but I’d highly doubt it. If we draft 13 players and another team drafts 6 players, How are they weighting that? Is PFF factoring we acquired some draft capital through careful maneuvering of Compensatory capital or from trade back moves? Who knows right?

Also. We were grading Brian Gutenkunst, not grading the draft. I’m not sure how that got spun into draft grade only. The overlook is almost too convenient.

Za’Darius Smith?
Preston Smith?
Billy Turner?
Adrian Amos?
Rasul Douglas?
DeVondre Campbell?
Keisean Nixon?
Matt LaFleur?

This is a pretty impressive list off the top of my head. Where does it rank? How many teams have hired a more impressive list at HC and FA since 2019? What happened there?
 
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Gute will be the GM so long as the Packers can win football games regardless of what happens to Love.

Love's performance will have a huge impact on the Packers winning games though. Therefore I expect Love has worked out pretty well if the team continues to be successful.

I'd really like to know their formula and understand it before I'd commit to using them as a reference for grading the GM.


As I have mentioned I'm well aware it's far from perfect but I don't have access to a better method.

PFF is likely a raw number that’s grading each drafted player individually (naturally weighting early picks heavier) and then combining the sum of those selections per franchise. So with all due respect that draft letter grade is skewed with just 1 selection alone. As an example Darnell Savage was acquired with a 3rd Rounder, do they specifically factor him as such? Very Doubtfully. Using raw grades he’s a #21 overall on the surface. He’s factored where’s he’s drafted. So we need to peel the PFF onion grade a little there and get his real value based on a later 3rd Rounder. Christian Watson (natural #59 overall was spent but he’s graded at #33 etc. Quay Walker, Musgrave and next years Day1 will all similarly be “bonus” draft picks either partially or wholly. In my mind those should offset or compensate for 3rd round draft misses etc. Does PFF consider that into the ranking equation? Maybe they do, but I’d highly doubt it. If we draft 13 players and another team drafts 6 players, How are they weighting that? Is PFF factoring we acquired some draft capital through careful maneuvering of Compensatory capital or from trade back moves? Who knows right?

First of all I used Pro Football Reference (PFR) to come up with that ranking. It's fine if you want to put the work in to include all the things you suggested to evaluate draft success since 2018 but I don't want to.

Also. We were grading Brian Gutenkunst, not grading the draft. I’m not sure how that got spun into draft grade only. The overlook is almost too convenient.

Za’Darius Smith?
Preston Smith?
Billy Turner?
Adrian Amos?
Rasul Douglas?
DeVondre Campbell?
Keisean Nixon?
Matt LaFleur?

This is a pretty impressive list off the top of my head. Where does it rank? How many teams have hired a more impressive list at HC and FA since 2019? What happened there?

Overall, including free agency I would grade Gutekunst with a B so far. The one thing I'm most impressed with is his ability to find gems for cheap deals like he did with Campbell, Douglas and Nixon. In addition I like that he's being active in free agency all season long.
 
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Love's performance will have a huge impact on the Packers winning games though. Therefore I expect Love has worked out pretty well if the team continues to be successful.




As I have mentioned I'm well aware it's far from perfect but I don't have access to a better method.



First of all I used Pro Football Reference (PFR) to come up with that ranking. It's fine if you want to put the work in to include all the things you suggested to evaluate draft success since 2018 but I don't want to.



Overall, including free agency I would grade Gutekunst with a B so far. The one thing I'm most impressed with is his ability to find gems for cheap deals like he did with Campbell, Douglas and Nixon. In addition I like that he's being active in free agency all season long.
I agree. That’s about where I have Gutey also. I gave the grade a plus because he came out crafty in that J’aire trade and he finally got bold in FA
 

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It's going to be very interesting to me to see ARod's demeanor if the O causes a few losses. Will it be the blame/trust game? And also to see how many seconds are on the clock when the ball gets hiked. It's hard for me to see this as a real comfortable situation for the head coach.
 

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And also to see how many seconds are on the clock when the ball gets hiked. It's hard for me to see this as a real comfortable situation for the head coach.

Hopefully the ball is snapped quicker for the Packers this season. If the days of 'wait til there is 1 second left on the clock' are over, I will not miss them. I get the assume rationale of it as it gives as much time to survey the defense as possible, but I'm not sure how that doesn't work both ways. Their are pros on the other side analyzing your offensive formations too so, I'm not sure how it doesn't work both ways. Plus, not to mention the unnecessary time out burns, generally slower pace and just frustrating to watch from an entertainment standpoint.
 

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Hopefully the ball is snapped quicker for the Packers this season. If the days of 'wait til there is 1 second left on the clock' are over, I will not miss them. I get the assume rationale of it as it gives as much time to survey the defense as possible, but I'm not sure how that doesn't work both ways. Their are pros on the other side analyzing your offensive formations too so, I'm not sure how it doesn't work both ways. Plus, not to mention the unnecessary time out burns, generally slower pace and just frustrating to watch from an entertainment standpoint.
This snapping the ball with 1 second on the play clock seemed to happen under MLF. If it happened in the McCarthy era, it was in the last year or 2, I don't remember it happening all that much earlier in the McCarthy era.
 
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It's going to be very interesting to me to see ARod's demeanor if the O causes a few losses. Will it be the blame/trust game? And also to see how many seconds are on the clock when the ball gets hiked. It's hard for me to see this as a real comfortable situation for the head coach.

I'm quite sure Saleh truly enjoys having Rodgers starting at quarterback compared to Zach Wilson, Mike White, Joe Flacco or Chris Streveler.

Hopefully the ball is snapped quicker for the Packers this season. If the days of 'wait til there is 1 second left on the clock' are over, I will not miss them. I get the assume rationale of it as it gives as much time to survey the defense as possible, but I'm not sure how that doesn't work both ways. Their are pros on the other side analyzing your offensive formations too so, I'm not sure how it doesn't work both ways. Plus, not to mention the unnecessary time out burns, generally slower pace and just frustrating to watch from an entertainment standpoint.

The Packers' offense definitely benefitted from Rodgers' ability to read a defense. While I would have liked him to snap the ball earlier on many occasions as well I think the unit will struggle in part because Love won't be able to analyze defensive schemes on a similar level in his first season as the starter.
 

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People may have been frustrated, that's fine. It was frustrating watching a gunsliger toss it too the wrong guy, but he sure was effective most times and pretty exciting otherwise. It was probably frustrating at times watching Barry lead the league in being tackled behind the LOS so many times, but sure was exciting all the other times. Rodgers greatest asset was his ability to know what was happening and what to do. We may never see another player that can read and recognize as well as the guy we just had. You don't tell the generational all time greats to handicap themselves and the team because you don't like it.

For all we know, it had as much to do with all the Oline and weapons changes and the HC wanting to give them time to recognize and catch up before the snap. and MLF seems to like to run a slowed down offense IMO. I always got the sense he wanted to limit the number of plays they ran and more was not always better from him. Efficiency over quantity.
 

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