Improving our Defense

[OldSchool101]

I think we should get one Veteran Edge in FA, similar to the Peppers move in 2014, then another with one of our first 3 picks.

Brian Burns? Reminds me of a young Cam Chamcellor and he’s not gonna be gone top 15.

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Then I’d like to resign Mo if that $5M range is still feasible.
I’d also like to see us get an upgrade at ILB opposite Martinez. That’s been a long time coming and Jake Ryan, why serviceable, is not someone who will ever light up the highlight reels. I do still think Clay would be better served moving inside if he takes a substantial pay cut. Our Defense was markedly better within weeks of him in the middle a few years ago. He was able to play both sides of the field much better and I dinstinctly remember him playing sideline to sideline on multiple back to back plays. He can still effective on delayed blitz packages from there.
Otherwise if he won’t re-negotiate? let’s move along. We have the draft capital to get ‘er done and I’m getting bored with kicking old worn tires.

 

[brandon2348]

I think we should get one Veteran Edge in FA, similar to the Peppers move in 2014, then another with one of our first 3 picks.
Brian Burns? I’d also like to see us get an upgrade at ILB opposite Martinez. I still think Clay would be better served moving inside if he takes a substantial pay cut.
Otherwise let’s move along. We have the draft capital to get ‘er done

Anything more then the vet minimum would be too much for Clay. In fact I'm not sure he is even worth the vet min. The Packers can do better and I would like to see them get someone faster along Blake. I'm pretty sure though there gonna give Burks every opportunity to develop at that spot.

 

[brandon2348]

Rush 4 and get pressure and this defense would rock! We don't need anymore damn db's.

Clay isn't part of that equation in any way, shape or form. Not unless you wanna see more late hits and overpursing all over the field.

 

[OldSchool101]

So... Brandon. What do ya think about Clay?

 

[brandon2348]

So... Brandon. What do ya think about Clay?

I think bye bye forever. Wanted him gone two years ago actually. But Noooooooooo! 26 million dollars later and we have a serious liability that nobody wants. He has like zero trade value even at a vet minimum.

The guy I would like to see them pursue is Dee Ford. He is 27 and can get off the ball in a hurry. Rather pay him 12-15 mill then broken down Clay Matthews.

 

[SD Cheesehead]

clay inside, fackrell outside...tramon or breeland to safety, or both. new secondary coach that actually teaches technique and contain.

I think this is pretty spot on. I think on 1st and second down we stick with Burks and Martinez but on big third downs I’d like to see a form of the old NASCAR package with Gilbert and Perry outside and clay roaming the middle and shooting a gap. I think if our corners get healthy Tramon would be a great a move to safety. He’s lost a lot of speed but if he could roam free and use his smarts in the back end he would be a huge upgrade from Brice. Our corners would still be Kigng, Alexander, Breeland, and Jackson. Even Brown made a few nice plays at corner when he was in if he can just clean up the dumb penalties. I’ve said it all year but our defense has lots of potential but we just need to get it meshing.

 

[SD Cheesehead]

I also really wonder if we’ve explored any trades. I feel like Gute is always our looking to deal. I’ve seen a couple of ideas and think a trade for Jerry Hughes makes a ton of sense. I’m sure he wants out of Buffalo and is on the last year of his contract. Moving on to next year I think our draft needs are definitely Edge, Safety, MLB, and then OL depth. I honestly wouldn’t hate two edges in the first and get rid of either clay and or Perry if they don’t take some decent pay cuts

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You can't just put the "Green and Gold" on somebody and expect him to be an all-star.

Both the Vikings and the Jags have spent considerable capital on edge and overall front seven people.

I bring up Belichick because under his system those guys would be long gone. Eat the dead $ and move on or trade or come at em and cut there contract in half. It's called "cutting the fat" instead of "swimming in it".

The Vikings and Jaguars are struggling on defense as well with Minnesota even ranking behind the Packers in that category.

Belichick wouldn't have been able to release Perry this offseason either based on the structure of his deal. He mostly likely wouldn't have signed him toa similar contract though.

We have the worst set of starting LBers in the NFL.

All of them need to be replaced.

Matthews will be gone next year, hopefully Perry as well. Martinez isn't very good; and there is no depth worthy of consideration for elevation into the starting lineup.

The only player I'd consider for a roll moving forward would be Gilbert, but he is pretty limited too.

Burks will be given a chance to develop, but he seems to be so lacking in instincts, that it is unlikely he'll ever be a player.

What's needed is a complete overhaul of the LB position.

Your weekly "we have to get rid of everyone" post is getting annoying.

I do still think Clay would be better served moving inside if he takes a substantial pay cut. Our Defense was markedly better within weeks of him in the middle a few years ago. He was able to play both sides of the field much better and I dinstinctly remember him playing sideline to sideline on multiple back to back plays. He can still effective on delayed blitz packages from there.

Matthews was an average inside linebacker at best several seasons ago. The reason the defense improved at that point was the Packers having Perry and Peppers rushing from the edge with Clay pressuring the quarterback from inside. He isn't any good defending the run or in coverage lining up at ILB.

I think if our corners get healthy Tramon would be a great a move to safety. He’s lost a lot of speed but if he could roam free and use his smarts in the back end he would be a huge upgrade from Brice.

Williams is definitely a smarter player than Brice at this point in his career but his lack of speed prevents the Packers from lining him up as a single high safety.

 

[Mondio]

Moving Matthews a couple years ago made some sense because we had Perry and Peppers and Clay and nobody at ILB. Get our best on the field. Despite what people think of him now, Clay is our best OLB. He's not our best ILB. Moving him now just means we're essentially staying equal (give or take a bit either way) at one position and taking a fairly big difference (in the wrong direction) at another. The sum total is less. Not a smart move.

 

[brandon2348]

The Vikings and Jaguars are struggling on defense as well with Minnesota even ranking behind the Packers in that category.

Belichick wouldn't have been able to release Perry this offseason either based on the structure of his deal. He mostly likely wouldn't have signed him toa similar contract

I actually wanted the Packers to sign Perry but never thought he was gonna be some world beater. If we remember the edge position in free agency was pretty slim pickens that year so he was gonna get paid. The main problem is paying Clay Matthew's huge $ to pretty much do nothing. It's just a poor allocation of resources any way you cut it. And now people wanna pay a washed up player almost 12 million dollars to hide him inside where I suspect he will get exposed there as well.

I believe Perry to be maxed out but still could be more effective if had a guy like Dee Ford(who we could of snagged in 2014 draft) on the other side. Harold Landry(who we could of snagged last draft) is also showing promise and he would have been a nice pick to compliment on the outside to develop.

Our big answer to the position problem is Vince Biegel(no longer on team) and even that year we could of snagged Carl Lawson.

The players have been there so people can't blame draft position or not having big $ to throw around.

#DBFEVER

 

[Zeker40]

My football friends and I (who've all played in either high school or college) call this period the "Thompson Hangover Effect" for defensive player drafts. Thompson was checked out the last few years of drafts in GB and he straight up sucked in the draft. Clay Matthews should've been traded 4-5 years ago when we still could've gotten a 1st or 2nd for him but to no avail. Better drafts then on offensive and defensive lines wouldve made everyone look better today. Gutey will make things better but couldnt possibly fix today. THat will take time and hopefully enough for Rodgers to do something with.

 

[brandon2348]

So... Brandon. What do ya think about Clay?

I could give you 26 million reasons why I don't think he is worth the salt which is what he has been paid last two years but that might make for a pretty lengthy post.

The Packers could of gotten out of this deal two years ago without taking too big a hit which is the real head scatcher. Instead they chose to pay him while they try to build the "secondary of the ages" which hasn't panned out.

 

[Zeker40]

Also, I know Gutey personally. Great head on his shoulders. If anyone can bring us better players through sensible means, it's him. Great hire for GB.

 

[brandon2348]

My football friends and I (who've all played in either high school or college) call this period the "Thompson Hangover Effect".

It's worse then the cheapest Vodka available.

 

[Zeker40]

It's worse then the cheapest Vodka available.

Agreed!

 

[Packer96]

It isn't just us, the NFL has become almost unwatchable for me except the Packers. The cap setup almost dooms teams like us with HOF QB's. Not enough left over for the rest of the team. It would be nice to have a $15M stud edge rusher, a stud MLB and great safety but it's tough to do and pay Arod at the same time. Be able to run the ball and keep the D off the field.

 

[brandon2348]

It isn't just us, the NFL has become almost unwatchable for me except the Packers. The cap setup almost dooms teams like us with HOF QB's. Not enough left over for the rest of the team. It would be nice to have a $15M stud edge rusher, a stud MLB and great safety but it's tough to do and pay Arod at the same time. Be able to run the ball and keep the D off the field.

That's right so why keep drafting all these defensive players with high picks when there is just so many moving parts to having an elite defense? Go look at the Seahawks payroll when there D was rocking. Its never gonna happen here in Green Bay in the Rodgers era.

That's why I have been saying for years to spend your top capital to compliment your elite QB. Its working for the chiefs and they have the worst defense in the NFL.

Throw in all the rule changes and is there really even a shut down corner anymore? You basically can't even touch the QB. Its called "Score Points"

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I actually wanted the Packers to sign Perry but never thought he was gonna be some world beater. If we remember the edge position in free agency was pretty slim pickens that year so he was gonna get paid. The main problem is paying Clay Matthew's huge $ to pretty much do nothing. It's just a poor allocation of resources any way you cut it. And now people wanna pay a washed up player almost 12 million dollars to hide him inside where I suspect he will get exposed there as well.

I believe Perry to be maxed out but still could be more effective if had a guy like Dee Ford(who we could of snagged in 2014 draft) on the other side. Harold Landry(who we could of snagged last draft) is also showing promise and he would have been a nice pick to compliment on the outside to develop.

Our big answer to the position problem is Vince Biegel(no longer on team) and even that year we could of snagged Carl Lawson.

The players have been there so people can't blame draft position or not having big $ to throw around.

#DBFEVER

There's no doubt the Packers currently don't have enough talent at edge rusher because the team has allocated too much of its cap space to Matthews and Perry with them not performing up to their contracts as well as their draft picks at the position not having developed as expected. The front office ignoring the position aside of signing Peppers some years ago hasn't helped either.

Without using hindsight Thompson made the right decision to re-sign both Matthews and Perry at the time they were headed for free agency though.

It isn't just us, the NFL has become almost unwatchable for me except the Packers. The cap setup almost dooms teams like us with HOF QB's. Not enough left over for the rest of the team. It would be nice to have a $15M stud edge rusher, a stud MLB and great safety but it's tough to do and pay Arod at the same time.

Go look at the Seahawks payroll when there D was rocking. Its never gonna happen here in Green Bay in the Rodgers era.

That's why I have been saying for years to spend your top capital to compliment your elite QB. Its working for the chiefs and they have the worst defense in the NFL.

The Packers actually allocated the second most cap space in the entire league towards the defensive side of the ball from 2014-16.

 

[brandon2348]

There's no doubt the Packers currently don't have enough talent at edge rusher because the team has allocated too much of its cap space to Matthews and Perry with them not performing up to their contracts as well as their draft picks at the position not having developed as expected. The front office ignoring the position aside of signing Peppers some years ago hasn't helped either.

Without using hindsight Thompson made the right decision to re-sign both Matthews .

Not so sure about Matthew's. Call it a coincidence but his play started dropping at about the same time he was being investigated for PED's. In Perry's case the Packers are stuck in that contract so he isn't going anywhere. Can only hope getting pressure from others might free him up more


My point is the Packers could of moved on a couple years ago from Matthew's and eaten a small amount of dead $ compared to what he has gotten paid for minimal production. At that time a plan could of been put in place to re-load the position that wouldn't of included Vince Biegel or Kyler Fackrell as desperation.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not so sure about Matthew's. Call it a coincidence but his play started dropping at about the same time he was being investigated for PED's. In Perry's case the Packers are stuck in that contract so he isn't going anywhere. Can only hope getting pressure from others might free him up more


My point is the Packers could of moved on a couple years ago from Matthew's and eaten a small amount of dead $ compared to what he has gotten paid for minimal production. At that time a plan could of been put in place to re-load the position that wouldn't of included Vince Biegel or Kyler Fackrell as desperation.

There's no denying the Packers have made mistakes evaluating the outside linebacker position over the past few years. There's no moving on from either Matthews or Perry at this point of the season though.

There might be a slim chance Gutekunst will be able to acquire a decent edge rusher on a reasonable deal before the deadline.

Upgrading the position should be the top priority next offseason though.

 

[rmontro]

The Packers actually allocated the second most cap space in the entire league towards the defensive side of the ball from 2014-16.

Wow, talk about getting no bang for the buck.
Who was first?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Wow, talk about getting no bang for the buck.
Who was first?

The Bengals spent the most cap space on defense from 2014-16.

 

[easyk83]

Not so sure about Matthew's. Call it a coincidence but his play started dropping at about the same time he was being investigated for PED's. In Perry's case the Packers are stuck in that contract so he isn't going anywhere. Can only hope getting pressure from others might free him up more


My point is the Packers could of moved on a couple years ago from Matthew's and eaten a small amount of dead $ compared to what he has gotten paid for minimal production. At that time a plan could of been put in place to re-load the position that wouldn't of included Vince Biegel or Kyler Fackrell as desperation.

Matthews play up until recently was tied closely to the secondary. In 10 he had his best statistical year and managed double digit sacks in his first two seasons. In 11 with the loss of Collins and we boasted one of the worst pass defenses in the league Matthews managed only 6 sacks, yet he scored a high number of pressures and knockdowns. Conclusion Matthews was an effective rusher albeit the safety play was so awful that it didn't matter. In 2012 the secondary improved somewhat and Matthews again produced 13 sacks, he had another good year in 14 with 11. Since then injuries bad secondary play and age have taken a toll. I for one believe that they're all using PEDs.

Now on one hand he has made impact plays in most of our games. 2 of them received horseshit penalties and prompted the league to throttle down its roughing the passer enforcement. However, I cant help but notice that right now Matthews is messing up things that have nothing to do with physical ability, that miss on Garcon was just baffling. If he pulls up on Trubisky he made a great play that forced an early throw and incompletion. I wonder if he isn't 1 foot out in retirement right now.

 

[Packer Brother]

Honestly, it's gotten a bit ridiculous. The defense has been thrash for 8 years now. Thompson is responsible for most of this mess. Yet, Murphy wanted to keep him in the organization for some reason.

Start selling off/buying out the likes of Matthews, Cobb, & whoever else.

 

[PackAttack12]

It's going to take another year, possibly two, to remove the stink of Ted Thompson from this team. Gutekunst did in one offseason what Thompson failed to do in multiple offseasons recently which is address the cornerbacks deficiency.

Continuity with Pettine, along with drafting/acquiring more impact players over the next year or two and you will see the defense improve by a landslide.