Free Agent Targets

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Certainly looks like Gute/Ball are playing the long game and gonna stick to the ol' Draft n Develop strategy. I'm not mad honestly, there were only a few FAs I was interested in and they were far too expensive for us to really have a shot at.

I don't expect any signings until the dust settles, so probably next month.

What scares me is the fact that while we have gotten some good players in the last 3 classes, Gute needs to absolutely nail this Draft if we don't sign anyone. Sure the Draft is always a crapshoot, but we have to come away with 4 immediate impact players out of the currently 10 stabs we have.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Certainly looks like Gute/Ball are playing the long game and gonna stick to the ol' Draft n Develop strategy. I'm not mad honestly, there were only a few FAs I was interested in and they were far too expensive for us to really have a shot at.

I don't expect any signings until the dust settles, so probably next month.

What scares me is the fact that while we have gotten some good players in the last 3 classes, Gute needs to absolutely nail this Draft if we don't sign anyone. Sure the Draft is always a crapshoot, but we have to come away with 4 immediate impact players out of the currently 10 stabs we have.

Well, we did sign the best player in free agency (Aaron Jones) /sarcasm.

I think the other route for improvement is making trades at the draft... But, we'll need Gutey to show his hand first and clear more cap space.

 

[gopkrs]

Certainly looks like Gute/Ball are playing the long game and gonna stick to the ol' Draft n Develop strategy. I'm not mad honestly, there were only a few FAs I was interested in and they were far too expensive for us to really have a shot at.

I don't expect any signings until the dust settles, so probably next month.

What scares me is the fact that while we have gotten some good players in the last 3 classes, Gute needs to absolutely nail this Draft if we don't sign anyone. Sure the Draft is always a crapshoot, but we have to come away with 4 immediate impact players out of the currently 10 stabs we have.

I don't look at it like that. As Sschind pointed out, you can go all in and be in cap hell sometime in the future. Or (in my words) you try and stay ahead of the game. i.e., get free agents when it is economically viable for both now and the future. But I definitely agree that we need to hit on the draft. The draft is and always has been extremely important. I just don't see our recent past (outside of TT for the most part) as "ol' Draft n Develop." We do what we can without mortgaging our future.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Well, we did sign the best player in free agency (Aaron Jones) /sarcasm.

I think the other route for improvement is making trades at the draft... But, we'll need Gutey to show his hand first and clear more cap space.

I don't look at it like that. As Sschind pointed out, you can go all in and be in cap hell sometime in the future. Or (in my words) you try and stay ahead of the game. i.e., get free agents when it is economically viable for both now and the future. But I definitely agree that we need to hit on the draft. The draft is and always has been extremely important. I just don't see our recent past (outside of TT for the most part) as "ol' Draft n Develop." We do what we can without mortgaging our future.

I don't look at it in a negative light, it just may be the best option right now. From my own valuation standpoint, I don't see many "marquee FAs" left that the Packers should be interested in. It may actually be in the best interest that the longer they wait, any FA they're interested in the price goes down as guys are trying to get into camps. The strategy may be to sign FAs to fill in holes that they were unable to fill in the Draft.

I'm not really concerned with cap hell, seeing as the largest contract on the team is likely to cease to exist is probably 3 years or less. We could be our own version of the 2018 Rams, I just hope Jordan Love isn't another Jared Goff.

 

[gopkrs]

I'm not really concerned with cap hell, seeing as the largest contract on the team is likely to cease to exist is probably 3 years or less. We could be our own version of the 2018 Rams, I just hope Jordan Love isn't another Jared Goff.

Yes, that sounds like a good point. I guess there is a reason that NOrleans has a problem and no longer have Brees. And it could be that Goff and Wentz were asked to be NFL QBs too fast.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I think the issue is that Goff and Wentz were never franchise QBs to begin with; but for some reason they still went 1st and 2nd Overall. I understand that the Rams and Eagles needed somebody, but they should have either signed a journeyman FA or traded for a low rent vet and tanked until 2017.

2016 QB Class:
1. Goff
2. Wentz
91. Brissett
100. Cook
135. Prescott
139. Jones
162. Hogan
187. Sudfeld
191. Rudock
201. Allen
207. Driskel
223. Doughty

2017 QB Class:
2. Trubisky
10. Mahomes
12. Watson
52. Kizer
87. Webb
104. Beathard
135. Dobbs
171. Peterman
215. Kaaya
253. Kelly

 

[GleefulGary]

Clearly those teams thought they were/could be a franchise QB when they drafted them. They didn’t take them just because they needed a QB.

 

[Mondio]

I think Wentz looked much better than he does now. And I think Goff learned how to throw in an offense but doesn’t really know how to play QB of that makes sense to anyone.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I think the issue is that Goff and Wentz were never franchise QBs to begin with; but for some reason they still went 1st and 2nd Overall. I understand that the Rams and Eagles needed somebody, but they should have either signed a journeyman FA or traded for a low rent vet and tanked until 2017.

2016 QB Class:
1. Goff
2. Wentz
91. Brissett
100. Cook
135. Prescott
139. Jones
162. Hogan
187. Sudfeld
191. Rudock
201. Allen
207. Driskel
223. Doughty

2017 QB Class:
2. Trubisky
10. Mahomes
12. Watson
52. Kizer
87. Webb
104. Beathard
135. Dobbs
171. Peterman
215. Kaaya
253. Kelly

When Wentz came out he was one of these sure-fire can't miss guys wasn't he? He's had some injuries and a bad relationship with Pederson to get through. I don't blame the Colts for giving him a go.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

What blew my mind is why someone considered to possibly be the 1st Overall Pick was playing at North Dakota State, and the other was 13-23 in the Pac-12. It blew my mind how everybody jus conveniently overlooked those two facts. Which is why I wouldn't touch Trey Lance with a 300ft pole.

But we should probably get back on topic with FAs.

 

[Pkrjones]

That's where most of you are completely wrong. The Packers converting Rodgers' base salary and signing bonus in a roster bonus this week wouldn't have made any difference on the total cap hit he would have accounted for no matter when the team decides to move on.

Let's take a look at the numbers if the Packers move on from him next season in both cases.

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The total cap hit allocated to him would be exactly the same but the Packers would have gained much needed $14 million in cap space for this season.

That is true for whenever the team actually decides to move on from him.



In total it wouldn't have made a difference.



I fully understand the way a signing bonus is accounted for.

You have to acknowledge the cap space saved this year as well instead of just taking a look at the increased dead money down the road though.

You don't fully understand how Signing Bonus affects the cap, apparently. You previously stated "Gutekunst not doing that makes absolutely no sense at all, especially considering the move wouldn't negatively affect the cap in any way no matter when the Packers actually move on from Rodgers."

You choose to split hairs by using total cap hit while completely ignoring Dead Money. If Gute creates '21 cap space by restructuring Aaron Rodger's contract the dead money DOES affect the '22 or '23 salary cap by reducing the amount of cap space available to spend in those years IF Gute ushers in the Jordan Love era. Creating space in '21 definitely does reduce the cap in '22 or '23 which IS contrary to your statements.

 

[GleefulGary]

What blew my mind is why someone considered to possibly be the 1st Overall Pick was playing at North Dakota State, and the other was 13-23 in the Pac-12. It blew my mind how everybody jus conveniently overlooked those two facts. Which is why I wouldn't touch Trey Lance with a 300ft pole.

But we should probably get back on topic with FAs.

Kinda like how the most talented QB in the NFL started out at a JUCO, everybody develops differently. Kinda like how Brett Favre played at a small, crappy school. Kinda like how Patrick Mahomes had a losing record at Texas Tech, in a ****** conference, but is still a good QB. Wins, and losses, are not a QB stat.

If you don’t think Trey Lance is good because he played at NDSU, I just can’t understand that. Jabril Cox played at NDSU, and was good. He transferred to LSU and walked in the doors as their best defensive player.

Talent is talent, no matter where they play.

 

[Dantés]

Kinda like how the most talented QB in the NFL started out at a JUCO, everybody develops differently. Kinda like how Brett Favre played at a small, crappy school. Kinda like how Patrick Mahomes had a losing record at Texas Tech, in a ****** conference, but is still a good QB. Wins, and losses, are not a QB stat.

If you don’t think Trey Lance is good because he played at NDSU, I just can’t understand that. Jabril Cox played at NDSU, and was good. He transferred to LSU and walked in the doors as their best defensive player.

Talent is talent, no matter where they play.

The Packers have really high end talent on their roster at QB, RB, WR, LT, DL, ED, and CB.

Those players went to Cal, Texas El Paso, Fresno State, Colorado, UCLA, Kentucky, and Louisville.

Helmet scouting is for chumps.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I agree, talent is talent; and talent can also develop differently. HOWEVER, what the two of you are forgetting is level of competition DOES matter. There's a reason why only a handful of D2, D3 "superstars" make it to the NFL every year and actually stick.

Rodgers went to a JUCO, then moved up to the then Pac-10, and had even greater success, same thing for Jabril Cox leaving NDSU for LSU.

Mahomes did things on a football field at Texas Tech that many NFL QBs could not. He also broke several Big 12 Records in addition to owning the FBS record for single game combined yardage and passing.

Favre birthed his "comeback kid" fame by beating then 6th Ranked Florida State his junior year and Alabama I believe his senior year. He was an exceptional passer by 1980s standards, but he still went in the 2nd Round.


I didn't say Goff and Wentz were trash, I just said they didn't deserve to be the 1st and 2nd Overall Picks. Now had they been drafted in the 3rd Round, the narrative on them would probably be somewhat different, but unfortunately they have to try to fill the big shoes that they were requested to fit.

Goff was unremarkable at Cal. He was "efficient", has some average athleticism to him, but that's about it. I also marked him negatively because he seemed like a "wimp" or one of those "private school passers", didn't seem like much of a leader or a guy who could get the locker room energized.

Wentz looked great at NDSU, but his only marquee wins were Kansas State and Iowa State. I had him ranked as a better QB than Goff, but still not worthy of 1st or 2nd Overall.

These two were just the best QBs in the 2016 Draft Class, and as such, because of the value of the position....that's what the Rams and Eagles were essentially "stuck" with. They could have punted on the decision, but I understand that both Front Offices would have probably considered that career suicide.

I haven't scouted Trey Lance at all, I admit. I was more interested in Zach Wilson. I did look at guys I thought would be Day 3 picks though(Because I knew Boyle was gone). But yes I admit, it's because of what happened with Wentz. He probably is a decent QB, but I'd feel sorry for the team who drafts him Top 5 and ends up snake bitten.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Its a trade off. Yeah he will count the same overall but whatever is gained this year will be lost next year. The salary cap is calculated every year not on average.

What you fail to consider is that teams are allowed to roll over cap space into the following season. Therefore restructuring Rodgers' deal wouldn't have negatively affected the Packers cap in any way.

Of course it's a different matter if the cap space saved this year would have been spent on a free agent but at this point the team still needs to make some moves to even be able to sign their draft class, practice squad and account for players #52 and #53 once the season starts.

Again, you are right the overall cap hit is the same but you simply can't gain cap space this year by converting salary to SB without losing cap space in the future. That's what puts teams like the Saints in cap hell this year. Pushing all the money out into future years. I'm not sure pushing every dollar possible into the future just to have more to spend now is the smartest thing to do.

With the cap expected to skyrocket in 2023 based on the new TV deal just signed and Rodgers' championship window closing it would have been smart to push as much cap space into future years as possible and finally go all-in for once.

You don't fully understand how Signing Bonus affects the cap, apparently. You previously stated "Gutekunst not doing that makes absolutely no sense at all, especially considering the move wouldn't negatively affect the cap in any way no matter when the Packers actually move on from Rodgers."

You choose to split hairs by using total cap hit while completely ignoring Dead Money. If Gute creates '21 cap space by restructuring Aaron Rodger's contract the dead money DOES affect the '22 or '23 salary cap by reducing the amount of cap space available to spend in those years IF Gute ushers in the Jordan Love era. Creating space in '21 definitely does reduce the cap in '22 or '23 which IS contrary to your statements.

Trust me, I fully understand how signing bonus are treated in the cap.

First of all I didn't ignore the dead money restructuring Rodgers' deal would have resulted in as I listed it in my calculation.

You don't understand that his contract counting a total of $54 million against the team's cap if they decide to move on from him next season is all that matters. It doesn't make any difference if that's true because of an increased amount of dead money or not.

 

[gbgary]

i'm thinking they may be done until after june 1st. either way it'll be an eye for an eye. looking like the CB job is Jackson's or whoever they draft. anything, anybody, except reworking Rodgers deal. it's bite the bullet now or lose all or most of the 17m savings next season. remember there's covid effect for at least two more seasons.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Gute/Ball possibly making a move, or just trying to sign the Draft Class:

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[Sunshinepacker]

Certainly looks like Gute/Ball are playing the long game and gonna stick to the ol' Draft n Develop strategy. I'm not mad honestly, there were only a few FAs I was interested in and they were far too expensive for us to really have a shot at.

I don't expect any signings until the dust settles, so probably next month.

What scares me is the fact that while we have gotten some good players in the last 3 classes, Gute needs to absolutely nail this Draft if we don't sign anyone. Sure the Draft is always a crapshoot, but we have to come away with 4 immediate impact players out of the currently 10 stabs we have.

The long game is great when you're not looking at the last year or two of the best QB ever playing for your team. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for massive spending (Packers can't afford that) but they really need to improve the WR corps; fans seem to have forgotten Brady throwing two interceptions in the 4th quarter and the offense doing nothing. The receiving group is decent with Rodgers at QB but adding Hilton or Humphries at a decent rate would let the Packers do more on offense without having to count on sure-handed but athletically challenged tight ends to do damage downfield.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Gone.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

Gone.

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Still too much cap money out there and teams willing to spend it. If the Packers want to sign a Free Agent or 2, it is probably going to be awhile. I never like to wait until after the draft, but this might be the year to do just that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

anything, anybody, except reworking Rodgers deal. it's bite the bullet now or lose all or most of the 17m savings next season. remember there's covid effect for at least two more seasons.

It's mind-boggling that you still advocate for the Packers to move on from Rodgers after him winning the MVP last season.

With the new TV deal signed the cap is going to skyrocket in 2023. Until then it might be smart to push back as much money as possible.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

So, it's about 3am here and I may be completely off base..., but it seems like every competitive team has people taking pay cuts to win. Why are we only now asking Rodgers to take a pay cut? If he really wants to win, he has to know that his contract is way too expensive and we should have restructured long ago. Brady has done this for years.. Green Bay is already a hard place to recruit, and his contract has made it impossible to bring in free agents to fill our holes. I'm at the point where we've had two hall of fame quarterbacks and 2 championships between them... If Brady is willing to take less to win more, why hasn't our GOAT?

We have SOOOO many holes on the defense... we have 3...THREE defensive lineman and absolute trash besides Jaire at CB... I don't see how we fill this with last minute vets and the draft.

 

[Mexican Packer]

So, it's about 3am here and I may be completely off base..., but it seems like every competitive team has people taking pay cuts to win. Why are we only now asking Rodgers to take a pay cut? If he really wants to win, he has to know that his contract is way too expensive and we should have restructured long ago. Brady has done this for years.. Green Bay is already a hard place to recruit, and his contract has made it impossible to bring in free agents to fill our holes. I'm at the point where we've had two hall of fame quarterbacks and 2 championships between them... If Brady is willing to take less to win more, why hasn't our GOAT?

We have SOOOO many holes on the defense... we have 3...THREE defensive lineman and absolute trash besides Jaire at CB... I don't see how we fill this with last minute vets and the draft.

You answer your own question, Green Bay is a hard place to recruit it's not like players would like to play here for less money. Just an example Bulaga and Linsley went to sunny California after.being here for 8 years

Truth is Packers are in cap hell for 2022 just 28 players under contract, already over the cap and zero WR on roster not Davante, MVS, Lazard or even Tonyan

We are in a good spot not the ideal situation, besides the Bucs there isn't any other team as strong as the Packers in the NFC, but the gap between the teams is gonna increase, so let's see what happens but don't expect any signings

 

[sschind]

So, it's about 3am here and I may be completely off base..., but it seems like every competitive team has people taking pay cuts to win. Why are we only now asking Rodgers to take a pay cut? If he really wants to win, he has to know that his contract is way too expensive and we should have restructured long ago. Brady has done this for years.. Green Bay is already a hard place to recruit, and his contract has made it impossible to bring in free agents to fill our holes. I'm at the point where we've had two hall of fame quarterbacks and 2 championships between them... If Brady is willing to take less to win more, why hasn't our GOAT?

We have SOOOO many holes on the defense... we have 3...THREE defensive lineman and absolute trash besides Jaire at CB... I don't see how we fill this with last minute vets and the draft.

They are not asking him to take a pay cut. He will get the same amount of money. All that changes is how it affects the salary cap. Less this year more in the next two years.

I can't think of a single time Brady took a pay cut unless you consider only his salary as his pay and ignore all the bonuses he got.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Welp, after the King signing I'd say we're all but done in Free Agency. I'm not sure where that $6M came from, so I'm assuming Rodgers has already restructured his deal and we're just waiting for the official announcement. Whatever is left over I'm assuming is for the Draft Class.