Free Agency: Packers Should Green Bay Pursue?

[elcid]

Honestly I was so sure we'd trade back that #12 pick I went and got something to eat when we were close to being on the clock. Last year's draft wasn't nearly as deep in positions we needed.

Sure, but we do not know whether there were offers from teams. For all we now, no one wanted our pick. I like the risk we took by taking Gary, shows me Gute has balls. And for all we know, Gary can still turn out to be a baller.

If they let Bulaga walk, and Veldheer or someone of his caliber is the de facto RT, I could see a trade up from #30 to get a tackle who can start immediately.

After the "big four"-- Becton, Wills, Thomas, Wirfs-- there is only one guy that I think who hold the starting spot down immediately, and that's Josh Jones (Houston). Austin Jackson and Ezra Cleveland are talented, and both had some mitigating factors to explain their play in 2019, but they are developmental prospects for sure. Starting them as rookies could lead to some very ugly results.

Of the five teams picking immediately in front of Green Bay, four could very easily draft a tackle in the first round. Minnesota (25) is probably going to let Reiff go, leaving them with a hole at LT. Miami (26) has the worst starting duo at tackle in the entire NFL. Seattle (27) is probably losing their starting RT to free agency (by choice). Tennessee (29) will be big players for a tackle if they allow Conklin to leave, which seems like the plan.

The trade chart is far from set in stone, but just viewing it as a guideline, jumping ahead of these teams to #24 (the Saints) is worth 120 points. The Packers 3rd round pick is worth 124. So it's possible that #30 and #94 could get Green Bay to #24.

If Jones is on the board, and we are in that situation at RT that I described, I wouldn't be opposed to the move. A disastrous situation at a tackle spot could have big adverse effects on an important season for the Packers. It would hurt to lose a 3rd round pick, but it would be preferable to getting picked off like the Texans last year.

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to giving up our third rounder, but it all kind of depends on how the board is at pick #24. And how are we so sure that these highly rated tackles will immediately be capable of performing better than a Veldheer would? I've seen plenty of high drafted OT's bust.

I'm just kind of firing off the hip here, but if the chips don't fall their way in the draft, next year's OT class is also supposed to very good.

It is conceivable they could try to band aid it with veteran help (Veldeheer and Turner), a developmental pick (Peart, Cleveland, Bartch, LSU guy), and if those guys don't work out well, then they know there are viable options in the next draft.

It's a risky option, but I do think it's a viable one.

I like this idea, and wouldn't mind rolling the dice here. The salary cap and the way the draft is structured will always force teams to take risks on way or another, and while Veldheer (or a mid round rookie) won't be a top 10 RT, they probably won't be one of the worst either.

Tough choices are always to be made when building a roster. Our defense is finally only 1 or 2 pieces away of being elite. Add in one or two dynamic pass catchers and our O could be explosive. We need all the salary cap we can get, and not invest allmost all in a guy who has turned out to be good, but not durable. Plus it isn't Aaron's blindside. Time for Aaron to prove that he can release the ball more quickly.

 

[tynimiller]

Sure, but we do not know whether there were offers from teams. For all we now, no one wanted our pick. I like the risk we took by taking Gary, shows me Gute has balls. And for all we know, Gary can still turn out to be a baller.

Oh I'm not judging Gary for a few years. His skillset if translates and he absorbs the game is gonna be dynamite I think.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Gute has balls. And for all we know, Gary can still turn out to be a baller.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For those unfamiliar with Eifert

He has been in the league since 2013 on the roller coaster of a team also known as the Bengals.

A true 6'6' and around 250LB he is a large TE target with experience...his issue has been healthiness.

He has only played in double digit games 3 seasons out of his 7 currently. However, the 2019 campaign was the first time he was healthy. He has very sure hands with a lower than most drop percentage, and for a career has averaged over 10 yards a catch. Even his yards/target is high at 7.9 for his career.

Is he a Hooper, no. However, he is a guy that has proven on a terrible team and when healthy delivers numbers GB and Aaron would love to have. I'm all for us seeing if we can make Hooper fit fiscally....but behind Hooper presently Eifert is my guy.

Eifert put up similar numbers to Graham last season. While he would definitely present a cheaper option signing him doesn't significantly improve the talent level at the position.

Or you could have a rookie that struggles to learn the playbook, connect with Rodgers, isn't ready for the pressure of being a starter, is always matched against a #1 or #2 CB, etc. In other words, you may not know what you are getting until its too late and you have to count on it.

I highly doubt that a rookie wide receiver on the Packers would be covered by the opposing #1 cornerback as long as Adams is healthy.

I don't recall any of those 3 completely jumping out at me as rookies when they did get a chance to play, but maybe you have some stats that can tell us. Just looking at simple stats, I would say that going off of Catch rates and yds/catch, Cobb played the best, followed by Jordy and then Adams?

Adams had two great games during his rookie season vs. the Patriots (6-121) and the Cowboys (7-117-1) in the playoffs.

Now it's the next season and we are discussing how to make the team better. Some people think AR is very limited offensively because of bad receivers. A few think a talented WR will help, but the bigger issue was ARs quality of play.

It's mind-boggling that any Packers fan suggests that Rodgers was a bigger problem than the lack of talent at wide receiver and tight end last season.

I'm not discounting the fact that a high picked rookie can't step in and produce, what I am saying is that it somewhat ignores the history of the Position in Green Bay.

Once again, history doesn't matter in that regard as the team had way more talent at wide receiver in past seasons making it tougher for rookies to have an impact.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I highly doubt that a rookie wide receiver on the Packers would be covered by the opposing #1 cornerback as long as Adams is healthy.

So which player has the higher odds of getting a #1 CB covering them? A rookie WR on the 2020 Packer team or a rookie WR on the previous Packer teams where you say the team had way more talent at WR?

Adams had two great games during his rookie season vs. the Patriots (6-121) and the Cowboys (7-117-1) in the playoffs.

Jeff Janis had a great game against the Arizona Cardinals, the rest of his games were inconsistent and unreliable. I think history will show the same with Adams until about his 3rd season.

Once again, history doesn't matter in that regard as the team had way more talent at wide receiver in past seasons making it tougher for rookies to have an impact.

Why wouldn't the history of what Rookie receivers matter? Maybe if you are only looking at the total stats of a receiver that didn't get many opportunities because of better teammates. However, I am talking about a rookie grasping the Packers playbook, establishing chemistry with Rodgers and then being able to step on the field as a #2 or #3 and produce consistently.

Again, I am not saying it isn't possible for a high round rookie to put up some solid numbers as a Packer starter. We may get the chance to see how it works out this season. I hope well, I just wouldn't fully bank on it if I am a Super Bowl contender.

 

[AmishMafia]

It's mind-boggling that any Packers fan suggests that Rodgers was a bigger problem than the lack of talent at wide receiver and tight end last season.

It's more mind boggling that anyone doesnt understand that a WRs performance is largely based on the QBs performance.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So which player has the higher odds of getting a #1 CB covering them? A rookie WR on the 2020 Packer team or a rookie WR on the previous Packer teams where you say the team had way more talent at WR?

Neither, as teams would be absolutely foolish to put anyone else than their #1 cornerback on Adams.

Jeff Janis had a great game against the Arizona Cardinals, the rest of his games were inconsistent and unreliable. I think history will show the same with Adams until about his 3rd season.

Geez, why do you feel the need to still talk about Janis??? It's true Adams had some inconsistent games during his rookie season but you have to finally consider that he was third on the depth chart in 2014 behind two great receivers in Nelson and Cobb.

Why wouldn't the history of what Rookie receivers matter? Maybe if you are only looking at the total stats of a receiver that didn't get many opportunities because of better teammates.

Once again, it shouldn't come as a surprise to any Packers fan that Adams wasn't targeted consistently because of the competition he had at receiver during his rookie season. That wouldn't be an issue for a rookie next season.

It's more mind boggling that anyone doesnt understand that a WRs performance is largely based on the QBs performance.

While the quarterback's performance definitely factors into a receiver's performance it's not the most important one in that regard.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

As does mine.

So what happens when the Packers can't sign Hooper or Ebron? I think many people are assuming that an upgrade at TE is going to happen. Maybe the Packers feel Sternberger is ready to be the starter? Really not that much different than thinking Lazard is your #2 WR.

I am pretty sure Gute has a lot of contingency plans and guys he will be targeting in order. Given that a TE signing isn't a done deal, it wouldn't shock me if on of those plans includes a mid tier FA WR.

If they don't sign either then they REALLY need to rely on the draft to produce some players that can make an impact their rookie year (historically an unwise assumption).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If they don't sign either then they REALLY need to rely on the draft to produce some players that can make an impact their rookie year (historically an unwise assumption).

If they completely strike out on a top tier FA TE, I think its imperative that they sign a fairly decent FA WR. There is no way that the Packers should flip last years receiving group (less Graham, Allison, Lewis) and only add a rookie WR and CFL Player Reggie Begelton to it and expect a big improvement.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Geez, why do you feel the need to still talk about Janis??? It's true Adams had some inconsistent games during his rookie season but you have to finally consider that he was third on the depth chart in 2014 behind two great receivers in Nelson and Cobb.

Simple, he is an example of a player, a WR, that many fans expected too much out of and he never really delivered and that was from the #5 or #6 spot. Maybe I should have used J'Mon Moore as my poster boy of why things don't always work the way you think they will?

I understand fans looking around the NFL at past rookie WR's, looking at this years WR draft class and saying "Oh we got this, eazy peazy, so many good rookies to choose from, just grab one in the 2nd or 3rd and we instantly improve our WR group. Could it work out well? Sure, but again, I think fans who are banking on that move to solely fix the WR issues are probably the same fans who were comfortable with last years group of WR's to start the season and I wasn't one of them.

 

[Mondio]

and they got a "veteran WR" that was a healthy scratch every week he was with the team. There's always more to it than picking a guy from FA or the draft. There's nothing easy about building a NFL football team.

 

[Dantés]

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to giving up our third rounder, but it all kind of depends on how the board is at pick #24. And how are we so sure that these highly rated tackles will immediately be capable of performing better than a Veldheer would? I've seen plenty of high drafted OT's bust.

We don't. Any draft pick can under-perform and any draft pick can bust. But we are still capable of looking at the profile of the prospect and making an educated guess at how they will do in the league. And as I have looked at the tackles, Josh Jones looks far likelier to be able to hang than the alternative that would come after him.

And of course we all know that a 1st round pick is more likely to play well right away than a pick at #62 or #94 or wherever.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

and they got a "veteran WR" that was a healthy scratch every week he was with the team. There's always more to it than picking a guy from FA or the draft. There's nothing easy about building a NFL football team.

Picking up a veteran off of waivers mid season and paying him $520k is much different than signing a FA WR in March, but sure, lets use Ryan Grant as a basis to never sign a FA WR.

If anything, Ryan Grant may prove a point. Why didn't he ever play a down for the Packers? He wasn't injured, I didn't hear of any off the field issues, could it be that he just couldn't pick up the Packers offense and connect with Rodgers in that short of time? Ahhh yes, but a Rookie will for sure.

I think the consensus of most is that the depth of the current group of WR's on the Packer roster doesn't exactly scream "great", "good" or even "average". Adding just a rookie into that and expecting a big improvement is asking/expecting too much IMO.

This conversation has gone around and around, I'm going to step back and see just what the Packers do in Free Agency and the draft and then revisit it.

 

[Mondio]

did I say never? ever? It's not easy to build a team. Great Odell got his catches in Cleveland, what did he bring them in terms of team wins? Jack ****ing **** is what and now they're already looking to dump him. I could use that TE i refuse to name as an example. he was a veteran, big time FA, had serious TE production, won a super bowl, etc. It's not easy, you don't know how it's going to work.

This team is going to need a couple rookies to step in and be productive. There are no ways around it. WR is just as likely as any of them.

add that veteran WR and use another draft on one. If we don't address OT, DL, ILB twice, DB it's not going to matter anway.

 

[GleefulGary]

It's more mind boggling that anyone doesnt understand that a WRs performance is largely based on the QBs performance.

Oh?

So if a WR struggles to create separation, doesn't offer much after the catch, their lack of production is largely on the QB?

How interesting.

 

[Dantés]

Simple, he is an example of a player, a WR, that many fans expected too much out of and he never really delivered and that was from the #5 or #6 spot. Maybe I should have used J'Mon Moore as my poster boy of why things don't always work the way you think they will?

I understand fans looking around the NFL at past rookie WR's, looking at this years WR draft class and saying "Oh we got this, eazy peazy, so many good rookies to choose from, just grab one in the 2nd or 3rd and we instantly improve our WR group. Could it work out well? Sure, but again, I think fans who are banking on that move to solely fix the WR issues are probably the same fans who were comfortable with last years group of WR's to start the season and I wasn't one of them.

This is a mis-characterization of how most people are treating the situation.

I'll say, again, what I've been saying-- I would be ALL FOR signing a FA wide receiver if I thought there were good options. But this FA wide receiver class pretty much sucks, so I am not all that eager to spend real FA money on a crappy veteran just to say that we checked that box.

Now I could see a cheaper deal for a role player-- a Taylor Gabriel or a Tajae Sharpe. That would be fine. But if you spend 10M/season on Breshad Perriman, praying that what he showed for half a season is who he is now, you're running a higher than normal risk of blowing your limited cap space on a bust.

 

[Dantés]

It's more mind boggling that anyone doesnt understand that a WRs performance is largely based on the QBs performance.

This is a pretty horrible take. And a demonstrably horrible take.

If this is true, then why did Sammy Watkins and Demarcus Robinson totally disappear so often last year? They had the best QB play in the league when Mahomes was healthy, and yet...

Why have the Patriots had so many seasons where they couldn't find good, reliable options at wide receiver?

Why is there such a huge difference in the Texans' offense when Will Fuller is out?

Why have the Saints struggled to find a consistent WR2 to pair with Michael Thomas?

Why was the Eagles' WR corps such a dumpster fire last year?

Obviously QB play is a factor for WR performance. But to act as though good QB's can just make WR's good is pretty ignorant of what actually happens in the league.

 

[tynimiller]

Eifert put up similar numbers to Graham last season. While he would definitely present a cheaper option signing him doesn't significantly improve the talent level at the position.

I agree with you often, but sorry you cannot just blindly say X player had these stats, Y player had these stats and throw everything else out to make a claim. Well, I mean you can, that's the beauty of opinions.

However, the dude has had to play on arguably one of the worst 5-8 teams when it comes to consistency as a whole.

Eifert is in my thoughts, the second tier cream because of a multitude of reasons. While I get he is not a Hooper, but the cost vs production alone to Green Bay would he come here does cause a significant impact in my opinion. Graham lumbers more these days than he used to, and Eifert I feel has a few more years before the degredation of his skills and abilities start clearly showing like Grahams did last couple.

I know you're a Hooper fan, as am I. He is the CLEAR best TE in free agency...shoot he may be the best Tight End to hit free agency in recent memory....but there is a cost to which it would become asinine for us to pursue, and we should look elsewhere. Eifert is 4 years younger, healthier now than he has been in years and is coming off a year in which he showed glimpses again of being what he has been before.

I'll put it this way, just ranking in my opinion Graham vs Eifert winner in various categories as of right now (because 4 years ago its Graham in nearly everything):

Not Statistical Comps
Cost: Eifert
Cost vs Production: Eifert
Experience: Graham
Relationship with Aaron: Graham
Future Years of Production Possible: Eifert
Speed: Eifert
Route Running: Eifert
Jump Balls: Toss Up IMO
Red Zone: Toss Up IMO

You already know I think fiscally if Hooper is out, I'm a fan of Lewis (resign), Stern and Tonyan going into the draft and maybe even next year. Focus on shoring up the WR need in FA, draft or both and roll. BUT if we look at TE beneath Hooper Eifert is my top most likely to produce for us (not an Ebron fan)...with Fells/Lewis being my #2 and #3 options but are more blockers than receiving options.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is a mis-characterization of how most people are treating the situation.

It might be a mis-characterization of how you are treating it, but it wasn't intended solely for you or even directed at you. Remember, everyone has an opinion and that range of opinions can range from A-Z in content.

You also know that I agree with you that this isn't the best year to be looking at Free Agent WR's, but that shouldn't close the door on the possibility of finding one at a decent price or even via a trade. Guys that aren't available right now, could become available between now and the start of the 2020 season. So just throwing ones hands up and saying "all we can do is draft a rookie and see what happens", isn't fully looking at all the possibilities of ways to improve our WR group for 2020 and beyond. I am hopeful that Gute and the Packers haven't taken the same stance that some posters seem to have.

 

[Dantés]

It might be a mis-characterization of how you are treating it, but it wasn't intended solely for you or even directed at you. Remember, everyone has an opinion and that range of opinions can range from A-Z in content.

You also know that I agree with you that this isn't the best year to be looking at Free Agent WR's, but that shouldn't close the door on the possibility of finding one at a decent price or even via a trade. Guys that aren't available right now, could become available between now and the start of the 2020 season. So just throwing ones hands up and saying "all we can do is draft a rookie and see what happens", isn't fully looking at all the possibilities of ways to improve our WR group for 2020 and beyond. I am hopeful that Gute and the Packers haven't taken the same stance that some posters seem to have.

Sure. I know you weren't talking directly to me or even about me, but I really haven't seen anyone acting the way that you suggested with the "easy peazy" thing. Maybe I missed it. I'm just pointing that out.

 

[GleefulGary]

Sure. I know you weren't talking directly to me or even about me, but I really haven't seen anyone acting the way that you suggested with the "easy peazy" thing. Maybe I missed it. I'm just pointing that out.

Careful, he's gonna block you if you keep this up.

 

[Dantés]

Careful, he's gonna block you if you keep this up.

I don't know if I'm quite as talented as you are in that regard.

 

[FaninColorado]

How about Christian Kirksey at ILB? released today by the Browns and has played under Pettine.

Kirksey and Littleton seem like a good pairing... add WR/DT/OL in the first 3 rounds and would be a solid offseason.

 

[tynimiller]

How about Christian Kirksey at ILB? released today by the Browns and has played under Pettine.

Kirksey and Littleton seem like a good pairing... add WR/DT/OL in the first 3 rounds and would be a solid offseason.

I am a fan of taking the chance on Kirksey. He has now ended two seasons in a row on IR, but when out there has done actually quite well. I 100% support us looking into him without a doubt...I just wonder/worry about the injuries, but if clears medical worries he is the type of FA acquisition I'm a fan of for sure.

 

[Dantés]

How about Christian Kirksey at ILB? released today by the Browns and has played under Pettine.

Kirksey and Littleton seem like a good pairing... add WR/DT/OL in the first 3 rounds and would be a solid offseason.

I don't really know anything about Kirksey, but if they shell out to pay Littleton, then I would assume they will pair him with someone really cheap (i.e. on a rookie contract).