Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

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Firethorn1001

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Easy answer? The Packers could have hired Jim Schwartz this season as DC; the Browns did it and they're currently the #1 rated defensive by DVOA (Green Bay was 28th before they got demolished by the Bucs).

If the Packers miss the playoffs, it will be very easy to point to these last two games as the reason, so Barry may cost the Packers a chance to play in the playoffs this season. It also means that the team is a year behind in finding a good DC.

The thing with Joe Barry is that isn't this the defense MLF wants and Joe Barry is implementing his vision? If that is the case doesn't seem like we would get a Jim Schwartz, but rather a Joe Barry part 2 with more bend don't break frustrations.
 

Firethorn1001

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OK, I'll bite. What's the right reaction to what we've seen and discussed?

Cleaning house and getting rid of everyone from MM down isn't the right reaction to the defense being horrific. Generally sports teams just don't operate that way unless they have bad owners.

For me, when you go down the 'fire everyone' path you lose me and the discussion. I'm sure it will feel good, but it isn't logical or going to happen.
 
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AmishMafia

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Gute is coming off perhaps the best draft of any GM in the NFL.

MLF won more games in his first 3 seasons than any coach in NFL history.

Both of these guys are young and new to their roles. They are growing and improving in their craft. It would be absolute foolishness to fire them.
 

BrokenArrow

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Cleaning house and getting rid of everyone from MM down isn't the right reaction to the defense being horrific. Generally sports teams just don't operate that way unless they have bad owners.

For me, when you go down the 'fire everyone' path you lose me and the discussion. I'm sure it will feel good, but it isn't logical or going to happen.
People think firing everyone will magically make a team better when in reality you're taking a flamethrower to the whole thing. It's the equivalent of tearing down an engine and rebuilding the whole thing when all you really needed was a new water pump. Rebuilding the engine is overkill, it takes way longer, and there's a million little things that can go wrong.
 
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Dantés

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Easy answer? The Packers could have hired Jim Schwartz this season as DC; the Browns did it and they're currently the #1 rated defensive by DVOA (Green Bay was 28th before they got demolished by the Bucs).

If the Packers miss the playoffs, it will be very easy to point to these last two games as the reason, so Barry may cost the Packers a chance to play in the playoffs this season. It also means that the team is a year behind in finding a good DC.

No well-run organization, in football or elsewhere, keeps a top-level manager that is awful at their job with the idea that "this is just a throw away year".

My argument is that I don't think a high level DC candidate would have been all that interested in the job, given the situation (coming off a down year with a new, unknown QB). It makes a lot more sense to find a coordinator this off-season than it did last off-season.
 

Dantés

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People think firing everyone will magically make a team better when in reality you're taking a flamethrower to the whole thing. It's the equivalent of tearing down an engine and rebuilding the whole thing when all you really needed was a new water pump. Rebuilding the engine is overkill, it takes way longer, and there's a million little things that can go wrong.

The best organizations also err on the side of patience. Most fans want them to err on the side of knee jerk reactions.
 

Dantés

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I believe it set us back at least half a season or more next year as the new scheme gets fully installed as the season rolls on.

But that argument assumes that they would have attracted/hired the right guy last off-season.
 

Dantés

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Nixon is quick and fast but does not have great cover skills. In man coverage he would commit a lot of contact and interference penalties. In zone he does not have the sixth sense to read the receivers even though he learned from watching film. Good QBs can bait CBs into misreading plays and then turn it on them. And he cannot play safety if he cannot read well enough. Still the muff in NY was a killer. We put him there because of Amari Rodgers who cost us plenty of times like the Titan game last year.

Agree. He is not a viable player on defense. They should let him walk.
 

Dantés

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You missed the point, or maybe I was too vague. Either way, a poor scheme is going to make good players in general look bad. Nixon has made a lot of good plays on the ball this season and he plays with a fire and aggressiveness that our other DBs lack. I like the guy.

No I understand your point-- Barry has not put players in a position to succeed and he clearly isn't an effective teacher.

But that can be true AND it can still be the case that Nixon does not have any cover skills. He is aggressive and can make some plays when he sees it right, but he gets absolutely cooked when he tries to cover receivers and tight ends one-on-one.

Again, I'm not a Barry apologist. He needs to go. But I often hear complaints like "we need to play more man coverage!" and then I look at personnel, like Nixon, and wonder how that would ever work. He can't do it.
 

PikeBadger

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Cleaning house and getting rid of everyone from MM down isn't the right reaction to the defense being horrific. Generally sports teams just don't operate that way unless they have bad owners.

For me, when you go down the 'fire everyone' path you lose me and the discussion. I'm sure it will feel good, but it isn't logical or going to happen.
And it sets a horrible precedent for potential future employees in the organization.
 

Voyageur

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There does come a time when nearly everyone goes. It happened when Harlen took the reins in GB, and pretty much so again, when Sherman took control. Murphy established his entire hierarchy as well. About the only person left from the past is Ball.

I expect a new President coming in will want to establish "his culture" within the organization, and since I believe he will be more business oriented than football, he'll possibly hire a VP for football operations who answers to him, and that person will hire everyone on down, after consultation with the new Prez.

Carrying people over from past administrations turns out badly in most cases I'm afraid. That was one of the problems that existed after Lombardi left GB. They kept trying to resurrect it all in his image, and the people doing it didn't understand the culture changes that were needed to make GB a better option than it was, for a lot of the top free agents in the game.

A prime example would be the Ted Hendricks situation. He played one year in GB, on a trade, because of contract obligations, and told them straight out he was gone when the season was over, and he was. Not even an exit interview, straight out to California and the Raiders. An old comment we'd make in the military about things happening we didn't like. "Embrace the suck!"
 

AmishMafia

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And it sets a horrible precedent for potential future employees in the organization.
Yup.

With the talent we have, a rising stars on offense, an organizational commitment to building defense, and knowing you have at least 3 years and probably more if you show improvement (not that difficult) - it becomes a very attractive job.

Al Davis' last coaching vacancy, several candidates turned down interviews. Firing 3 guys in 4 years cuts down on your choices.
 

Voyageur

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Yup.

With the talent we have, a rising stars on offense, an organizational commitment to building defense, and knowing you have at least 3 years and probably more if you show improvement (not that difficult) - it becomes a very attractive job.

Al Davis' last coaching vacancy, several candidates turned down interviews. Firing 3 guys in 4 years cuts down on your choices.
Totally agree. That's why the only casualty, at the most, at the end of this year, would probably be Barr & the ST coach.
 

Team Ronny

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At some point they have to admit they hired the wrong guy! It was pretty telling right away when Lafleur would micro manage the defense. He didn't let Barry hire his own assistants. He held his hand that 1st year. If that doesn't say..look you weren't our first choice...nothing does. Bisaccia was given free reign to bring in his guys!
 

BrokenArrow

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Agree. He is not a viable player on defense. They should let him walk.
If we can ever get healthy in the secondary he won't be on the field on defense anyway. It took a long time for us to find a decent kick returner and he's top in the league in that position. Keep him.
 

Dantés

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If we can ever get healthy in the secondary he won't be on the field on defense anyway. It took a long time for us to find a decent kick returner and he's top in the league in that position. Keep him.

He was always supposed to be the starting slot corner for this defense. He wasn't forced in due to injury.
 
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