Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[adambr2]

I think you can argue that it made sense to hold serve in a developmental/assessment year. The FO had no idea what direction the future would take them prior to this season unfolding. Love was still a mystery. Yes, it was clear that Barry was not the long-term answer. But did it make sense to replace him at that time? I'm not so sure. I don't think they would have gotten quality applicants when the future was so uncertain.

Going into this off-season, it will likely be clear that the team has future stability behind the partnership of LaFleur and Love. You can see how DC candidates would be more willing to sign onto that (i.e. they don't have to be too worried that the whole staff is on the hot seat and they could be one and done). A good, young QB who is ascending gives security to the entire staff.

And what harm has it really done to have Barry this season? Did it hamstring a Super Bowl run? In the big picture, I don't really see that it made a difference.

My counterpoints to this would be that my top choice during the post 2020 hiring period, Ejiro Evero, was available had we moved on from Barry a year ago. I can't predict if he would have picked Green Bay over Carolina, but I can say he picked a pretty unstable situation there, and I don't think any coaches fear coming here and being one and dones if things go wrong. Green Bay and MLF both are notorious for patience with coaches and development and I think you would have seen that to an even greater degree in the first year of a new system.

The second part of that is, we didn't move on from Barry, which was pretty inevitable anyway, and now we have to start completely from scratch. Instead of hitting the ground running next year in Love's second season, we will be in the first year of a brand new defensive scheme and system and all the growing pains that come with it.

I think you could very legitimately argue that a year ago was actually the perfect time to start over on defense.

 

[Catamount1971]

I wonder how many head coaches that will be fired this year would be a good DC option.

 

[Team Ronny]

I hope the don't hire a retread! I hope they can get a young fresh mind. Anyone from S.F.'s defense or Baltimore, Philly, or even Dallas would be ideal!

 

[Catamount1971]

Dan Quinn was a HC and Steve Spagnola was too. Not great fits as head coaches, but slotted into their strength as a defensive coach.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Nixon in the slot is a total disaster.

Just 3 games ago, Nixon made a tremendous interception against Mahomes. At this point, it's hard to tell if individual players are playing poorly when the coaching is so bad.

 

[Dantés]

Just 3 games ago, Nixon made a tremendous interception against Mahomes. At this point, it's hard to tell if individual players are playing poorly when the coaching is so bad.

Nixon's film study paid off and he knew where the pass was going and he made a great play. But on a down to down basis, his cover skills do not exist.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Nixon's film study paid off and he knew where the pass was going and he made a great play. But on a down to down basis, his cover skills do not exist.

Even the best players struggle to succeed when the DC puts them in position to fail.

 

[Dantés]

Even the best players struggle to succeed when the DC puts them in position to fail.

I am not a fan of Joe Barry, but can you explain to me what it is about Nixon's positioning that's causing him to fail?

 

[rmontro]

We know the current option is sub par. So what’s the downside in trying a new guy who may or may not be?

Yeah, I wasn't saying let's keep Barry. My point was I hope they replace him with somebody decent for a change.

As a packer fan since the Lombardi days I am certainly disappointed in how this season is turning out. They gave us some hope for a while but I have come to terms that they are just not good enough this year.

I'm fine with them not being good enough this year. This year was supposed to be about growing pains anyway. I'm just sick to death of the defense always being a problem.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I am not a fan of Joe Barry, but can you explain to me what it is about Nixon's positioning that's causing him to fail?

You missed the point, or maybe I was too vague. Either way, a poor scheme is going to make good players in general look bad. Nixon has made a lot of good plays on the ball this season and he plays with a fire and aggressiveness that our other DBs lack. I like the guy.

 

[Sanguine camper]

You missed the point, or maybe I was too vague. Either way, a poor scheme is going to make good players in general look bad. Nixon has made a lot of good plays on the ball this season and he plays with a fire and aggressiveness that our other DBs lack. I like the guy.

I see the same performance from Nixon. He plays fast. Sometimes he gets fooled but at least he is flying around trying to make a play. He's one of my favorite players on this team.

 

[milani]

I am not a fan of Joe Barry, but can you explain to me what it is about Nixon's positioning that's causing him to fail?

Nixon is quick and fast but does not have great cover skills. In man coverage he would commit a lot of contact and interference penalties. In zone he does not have the sixth sense to read the receivers even though he learned from watching film. Good QBs can bait CBs into misreading plays and then turn it on them. And he cannot play safety if he cannot read well enough. Still the muff in NY was a killer. We put him there because of Amari Rodgers who cost us plenty of times like the Titan game last year.

 

[Poppa San]

We tried him on offense a couple times and he did pretty good. How come he never does that anymore?

That which he did best on offense is done even better by Reed.

And what harm has it really done to have Barry this season? Did it hamstring a Super Bowl run? In the big picture, I don't really see that it made a difference.

I believe it set us back at least half a season or more next year as the new scheme gets fully installed as the season rolls on.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The same place where the love haters go when Love is doing well

I guess the difference could be that Barry has consistently been a bad DC every year he's had the job while Love was a complete unknown? Seems more rational to change your mind on the unknown after he plays well than to ignore six years of evidence that a coach sucks.

 

[gopkrs]

That which he did best on offense is done even better by Reed.

I believe it set us back at least half a season or more next year as the new scheme gets fully installed as the season rolls on.

I don't agree that Reed runs the sweep better than Nixon.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

And what harm has it really done to have Barry this season? Did it hamstring a Super Bowl run? In the big picture, I don't really see that it made a difference.

Easy answer? The Packers could have hired Jim Schwartz this season as DC; the Browns did it and they're currently the #1 rated defensive by DVOA (Green Bay was 28th before they got demolished by the Bucs).

If the Packers miss the playoffs, it will be very easy to point to these last two games as the reason, so Barry may cost the Packers a chance to play in the playoffs this season. It also means that the team is a year behind in finding a good DC.

No well-run organization, in football or elsewhere, keeps a top-level manager that is awful at their job with the idea that "this is just a throw away year".

 

[milani]

That which he did best on offense is done even better by Reed.

I believe it set us back at least half a season or more next year as the new scheme gets fully installed as the season rolls on.

Yes, it did. Players know that coaches come and go. But look at poor Kenny Clark. He is well paid but he has seen 3 DCs. Next year will be 4.

 

[longtimefan]

Easy answer? The Packers could have hired Jim Schwartz this season as DC; the Browns did it and they're currently the #1 rated defensive by DVOA (Green Bay was 28th before they got demolished by the Bucs).

If the Packers miss the playoffs, it will be very easy to point to these last two games as the reason, so Barry may cost the Packers a chance to play in the playoffs this season. It also means that the team is a year behind in finding a good DC.

No well-run organization, in football or elsewhere, keeps a top-level manager that is awful at their job with the idea that "this is just a throw away year".

So your saying Love is capable of getting to the playoffs.

Thanks

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So your saying Love is capable of getting to the playoffs.

Thanks

I really wish you could decouple my criticism of taking a QB with the first round pick in 2020 from my feelings on Love as a player. If, for example, Gute drafted a QB this season many people would think it was a bad pick (including me) but that doesn't mean I, and many others, think the QB that Gute picks will end up being a terrible QB. I doubted Love's ability this season based on his inability to throw the ball accurately more than 15 yards downfield. Love has corrected that faster than any other QB I've ever seen or heard of; usually there might be improvement season-over-season, but he literally got better (he's still not great but he's serviceable now rather than putrid) within the span of a couple of weeks.

Otherwise, feel free to continue taking a victory lap on something I've changed my mind on and realize that it's that exact attitude on the Internet that lead a lot of people to NOT changing their minds. Rather than being happy someone has changed their mind, it appears all some people want to do is double down and insult them for something they no longer think.

 

[Wraith09]

I think the Packers should move on from Joe Barry and as many of you pointed out earlier in this thread I don't think the problem with the Packers lies solely with the DC. I think it would be beneficial to clean house at Green Bay. The Packers have had talent at the most important position for thirty years. Only two Super Bowl wins, with three appearances. If the Packers want to return to the Super Bowl, they need to get real and recognize and admit they need to change the way they think and make decisions. They seem to have too many philosophies or strategies with regard to drafting, roster building and defensive philosophies which limit their ability to compete and succeed. Some of these practices or habits include drafting DBs in the first round year after year, not drafting offensive skill players in the first round (total losing policy), drafting players in the first round that they have to develop for years only to see them fail or only become mediocre players (1st round players [not QBs] should be able to start first year and contribute), hiring coaches who aren't up to the task (Mike Pettine, Joe Barry et al.) and sticking with them when it's clear they can't succeed, not developing QBs anymore, extending veteran contracts for players that can't make it on to the field because of injuries (David Bakhtiari, Bryan Bulaga, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher), not having depth at the running back position and paying out big contracts to veterans who are not productive enough to be paid large contracts. If the Packers want to succeed they need to draft and sign players to give them functional depth. Where's the speed on the defensive edge? Were the Packers better with players like Clay Matthews or Za' Darius Smith? Too many bad practices to be successful in the playoffs. The quarterbacks have made the Packers competitive for thirty years, but quarterbacks don't win, complete teams win.

 

[Poppa San]

I think the Packers should move on from Joe Barry and as many of you pointed out earlier in this thread I don't think the problem with the Packers lies solely with the DC. I think it would be beneficial to clean house at Green Bay. The Packers have had talent at the most important position for thirty years. Only two Super Bowl wins, with three appearances. If the Packers want to return to the Super Bowl, they need to get real and recognize and admit they need to change the way they think and make decisions. They seem to have too many philosophies or strategies with regard to drafting, roster building and defensive philosophies which limit their ability to compete and succeed. Some of these practices or habits include drafting DBs in the first round year after year, not drafting offensive skill players in the first round (total losing policy), drafting players in the first round that they have to develop for years only to see them fail or only become mediocre players (1st round players [not QBs] should be able to start first year and contribute), hiring coaches who aren't up to the task (Mike Pettine, Joe Barry et al.) and sticking with them when it's clear they can't succeed, not developing QBs anymore, extending veteran contracts for players that can't make it on to the field because of injuries (David Bakhtiari, Bryan Bulaga, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher), not having depth at the running back position and paying out big contracts to veterans who are not productive enough to be paid large contracts. If the Packers want to succeed they need to draft and sign players to give them functional depth. Where's the speed on the defensive edge? Were the Packers better with players like Clay Matthews or Za' Darius Smith? Too many bad practices to be successful in the playoffs. The quarterbacks have made the Packers competitive for thirty years, but quarterbacks don't win, complete teams win.

Over the past 30 years fans of every team in the league has had the same complaints at one time or another. GB is not unique in that. And by cleaning house do you mean everyone from the board down to those 2 cute young ladies that take the water bottles out during time outs or are you just talking team management?

 

[Wraith09]

Over the past 30 years fans of every team in the league has had the same complaints at one time or another. GB is not unique in that. And by cleaning house do you mean everyone from the board down to those 2 cute young ladies that take the water bottles out during time outs or are you just talking team management?

If they would change their way of thinking and doing things with regard to drafting, signing veterans, hiring and retaining coaches and building their team, then they wouldn't need to get rid of front office people and coaches, but in watching them since Ron Wolf and Mike Holmgren left they don't seem to be able to change their way of doing things. So, if they can't change then MM should retire now and bring in someone who insists on changing minds or show them the door. I actually like decisions Gute has made except for his first round decisions. I think MLF has a good handle on the offensive strategy. Defense, thumbs down, way down. I would bring in someone to compete against Love. Love isn't an established winning quarterback and he shouldn't be treated as such. He needs to compete and earn that starting job. So hire someone to replace MM now who will insist that management doesn't put the Packers in a straight jacket when it comes to drafting players, hiring and firing coaches and building a roster.

 

[milani]

So your saying Love is capable of getting to the playoffs.

Thanks

These last two games were devastating not only because of playoff possibilities but that they were against two teams that had a losing record. And by the same token we can point to early season losses to sub par teams like the Falcons, Raiders, Steelers, and Broncos which happened due to a number of factors.

 

[Voyageur]

Over the past 30 years fans of every team in the league has had the same complaints at one time or another. GB is not unique in that. And by cleaning house do you mean everyone from the board down to those 2 cute young ladies that take the water bottles out during time outs or are you just talking team management?

I like the reference to the bottle ladies. But, at this time of year, it's two young women with red noses, and snot running down over their lips from the cold. A little different picture, but possibly extremely inviting to the dyed-in-the-wool snowmobilers.

On who gets dumped, and when. It all starts with Mark Murphy actually having to retire during the summer of 2025. That tells me that nothing will happen to the majority of the coaching tree until then. It's possible, maybe probable, that they let Barry go after this season ends, and possibly one or two defensive assistants. That's going to be about it. Everyone else will still be there.

What I question is how things play out after next season. Will everyone whose in the football tree still be there when the 2025 draft rolls around? Will Gute handle that draft? Or, will Murphy step down at the end of the 2024 season, so they can bring in a new President, who can decide whether or not he keeps Gute, and all staff members, including coaching? We need to remember that old adage that "A new broom sweeps clean." That could even put LeFleur on the street as well. Especially if they don't have a good season in 2024.

In all honesty, I have no idea what will happen. It all depends on how loyal Murphy will really be to all those below him. But, I can almost promise you that a new President would definitely want to hire new people to replace Gute and those in his offices. He's going to want his people running the show, and we can expect a conventional chain of command, not the monstrosity where everyone answers to Murphy, like they have now.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I would bring in someone to compete against Love. Love isn't an established winning quarterback and he shouldn't be treated as such. He needs to compete and earn that starting job.

That would be a waste of resources. He has already earned the starting job. It's his to lose at this point. He's done more with less than Rodgers did in 2008 and will likely have more wins than he had even if you exclude the 17th game this year.