Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[Firethorn1001]

No thank you. I don't like the guy especially after the way he did Not handle Such when he stomped on our player. I don't like the way he coaches.

Wasn't advocating for Jim Schwartz, but rather suggesting the type of DC we would get next which I still anticipate to be in the style of JB.

 

[Voyageur]

This is the "Fire Joe Barry" thread...can Love discussions be taken back into a Jordan Love thread? Thanx!

Good point. I deleted mine. I was responding to a post that was out here.

 

[Pugger]

I think you can argue that it made sense to hold serve in a developmental/assessment year. The FO had no idea what direction the future would take them prior to this season unfolding. Love was still a mystery. Yes, it was clear that Barry was not the long-term answer. But did it make sense to replace him at that time? I'm not so sure. I don't think they would have gotten quality applicants when the future was so uncertain.

Going into this off-season, it will likely be clear that the team has future stability behind the partnership of LaFleur and Love. You can see how DC candidates would be more willing to sign onto that (i.e. they don't have to be too worried that the whole staff is on the hot seat and they could be one and done). A good, young QB who is ascending gives security to the entire staff.

And what harm has it really done to have Barry this season? Did it hamstring a Super Bowl run? In the big picture, I don't really see that it made a difference.

It didn't hamstring (I wonder if this is the best word to use with this bunch ) a Super Bowl run but it could have hampered the development of some of our younger defensive players.

 

[Pugger]

I wonder how many head coaches that will be fired this year would be a good DC option.

Yes, we see it all the time - a good defensive or offensive minded coach often makes a better coordinator than HC.

 

[Pugger]

Nixon is quick and fast but does not have great cover skills. In man coverage he would commit a lot of contact and interference penalties. In zone he does not have the sixth sense to read the receivers even though he learned from watching film. Good QBs can bait CBs into misreading plays and then turn it on them. And he cannot play safety if he cannot read well enough. Still the muff in NY was a killer. We put him there because of Amari Rodgers who cost us plenty of times like the Titan game last year.

Of course if we didn't have the injury issues in the secondary Nixon wouldn't be starting. I still don't understand the Douglas trade, however.

 

[Pugger]

I think the Packers should move on from Joe Barry and as many of you pointed out earlier in this thread I don't think the problem with the Packers lies solely with the DC. I think it would be beneficial to clean house at Green Bay. The Packers have had talent at the most important position for thirty years. Only two Super Bowl wins, with three appearances. If the Packers want to return to the Super Bowl, they need to get real and recognize and admit they need to change the way they think and make decisions. They seem to have too many philosophies or strategies with regard to drafting, roster building and defensive philosophies which limit their ability to compete and succeed. Some of these practices or habits include drafting DBs in the first round year after year, not drafting offensive skill players in the first round (total losing policy), drafting players in the first round that they have to develop for years only to see them fail or only become mediocre players (1st round players [not QBs] should be able to start first year and contribute), hiring coaches who aren't up to the task (Mike Pettine, Joe Barry et al.) and sticking with them when it's clear they can't succeed, not developing QBs anymore, extending veteran contracts for players that can't make it on to the field because of injuries (David Bakhtiari, Bryan Bulaga, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher), not having depth at the running back position and paying out big contracts to veterans who are not productive enough to be paid large contracts. If the Packers want to succeed they need to draft and sign players to give them functional depth. Where's the speed on the defensive edge? Were the Packers better with players like Clay Matthews or Za' Darius Smith? Too many bad practices to be successful in the playoffs. The quarterbacks have made the Packers competitive for thirty years, but quarterbacks don't win, complete teams win.

I'm with you and your post except for the Bak situation. When we extended him it was before that terrible knee injury and he didn't have a history of injuries. He plays one of the most important positions on offense this side of QB and when healthy he is an All-Pro caliber player. IMO that entire situation was bad luck for him and us to the extreme.

 

[Pugger]

Gute is coming off perhaps the best draft of any GM in the NFL.

MLF won more games in his first 3 seasons than any coach in NFL history.

Both of these guys are young and new to their roles. They are growing and improving in their craft. It would be absolute foolishness to fire them.

Yes, but if they are blind to the issues on defense that is concerning.

 

[Sanguine camper]

If I'm a HC, I don't want any KOR returned if at all possible. Either let it go into the end zone, or make a fair catch whenever possible in the field of play. Quit running the risk of penalties, and not getting the ball out anywhere near the 25 with a return. Coaches that don't understand that are a little dense in my opinion.

There's too many risks for the potential return. Losing the ball on a fumble, or getting a penalty which often moves the ball inside the 15 yard line. No thanks!

It's all about the net yards. If running out kicks gets you past the 25 on average, it makes sense. With Nixon, any time he can field a kick 3 yards deep in the end zone or shallower, I'd run it out. Taking it at the 25 also negates the chance for a big, game- turning play.

 

[Voyageur]

I have a bit of a disagreement with stats in a lot of cases. It's definitely there with kickoffs. Let's assume that a player has 50 kicks he returns during the course of a year. Let's say he averages 30 yards per return. Simple math tells me that half the returns will be over 30 yards, and the other half, under 30 yards. So, it sounds good.

A couple things wrong there. All the kicks he returned from inside the end zone do not end up putting the ball on the 30. In fact, the starting point on the field for the offense wouldn't be the 30, as people might guess, but somewhere closer to the 25 yard line. Granted, there will be a couple in there as well, where the ball is fielded outside the end zone, so that would skew the starting point too. But, based on today's kickers, that would be rare, compared to those caught short of the 30 yard line.

The funny part about kick returns is that of that 50 you did this year, you took one 105 yards for a TD, and had 4 more you broke for 75 yard returns, from 5 yards inside the end zone. You get a net 70 for each of them, but in the stats? You get all 75 yards. That's a total of 405 yards for those 5 kicks. Since you're averaging 30 yards per return, with those included, it skews the figures. Subtract them from the rest, and you now have an average of 23,8 yards per return, and if the average distance in the end zone is 3 yards, your true average is 20.8 yard average, and I'd be willing to bet a shiny penny that in the area of 2/3 of your returns will be short of the 25.

That tells me that there's too much risk, because there are no positives you can add to these figures, but there is a negative, if there's a penalty. It makes matters worse.

 

[Poppa San]

The funny part about kick returns is that of that 50 you did this year, you took one 105 yards for a TD, and had 4 more you broke for 75 yard returns, from 5 yards inside the end zone. You get a net 70 for each of them, but in the stats? You get all 75 yards. That's a total of 405 yards for those 5 kicks. Since you're averaging 30 yards per return, with those included, it skews the figures. Subtract them from the rest, and you now have an average of 23,8 yards per return, and if the average distance in the end zone is 3 yards, your true average is 20.8 yard average, and I'd be willing to bet a shiny penny that in the area of 2/3 of your returns will be short of the 25.

IIRC, the stats on the Packers punt coverage are negatively skewed by one big return given up early in the season otherwise they'd be top 10 area.

 

[Poppa San]

Yes, we see it all the time - a good defensive or offensive minded coach often makes a better coordinator than HC.

Peter principle
"According to the Peter Principle, every position in a given hierarchy will eventually be filled by employees who are incompetent to fulfill the job duties of their respective positions."

I still don't understand the Douglas trade, however.

Gute said Buffalo approached with an offer too good to pass up. I can't find the cite for that so you'll just have to trust me on this.

 

[Pkrjones]

Peter principle
"According to the Peter Principle, every position in a given hierarchy will eventually be filled by employees who are incompetent to fulfill the job duties of their respective positions."

Gute said Buffalo approached with an offer too good to pass up. I can't find the cite for that so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Link to article, just click "ExpandArticle" for full text.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Half Empty]

Peter principle
"According to the Peter Principle, every position in a given hierarchy will eventually be filled by employees who are incompetent to fulfill the job duties of their respective positions."

Gute said Buffalo approached with an offer too good to pass up. I can't find the cite for that so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Then why didn't he take that offer instead of the one that we ended up with?

 

[Voyageur]

IIRC, the stats on the Packers punt coverage are negatively skewed by one big return given up early in the season otherwise they'd be top 10 area.

That's definitely the point. Stats are skewed by the anomalies that happen. It's like the ratings of players for each game. Seriously? One play that breaks down and the guy blows it, and he went from having a solid game to dog meat? I don't think so.

 

[BrokenArrow]

If I'm a HC, I don't want any KOR returned if at all possible. Either let it go into the end zone, or make a fair catch whenever possible in the field of play. Quit running the risk of penalties, and not getting the ball out anywhere near the 25 with a return. Coaches that don't understand that are a little dense in my opinion.

There's too many risks for the potential return. Losing the ball on a fumble, or getting a penalty which often moves the ball inside the 15 yard line. No thanks!

No risk, no reward. A good kickoff return can completely change the momentum in a game.

 

[longtimefan]

I really wish you could decouple my criticism of taking a QB with the first round pick in 2020 from my feelings on Love as a player. If, for example, Gute drafted a QB this season many people would think it was a bad pick (including me) but that doesn't mean I, and many others, think the QB that Gute picks will end up being a terrible QB. I doubted Love's ability this season based on his inability to throw the ball accurately more than 15 yards downfield. Love has corrected that faster than any other QB I've ever seen or heard of; usually there might be improvement season-over-season, but he literally got better (he's still not great but he's serviceable now rather than putrid) within the span of a couple of weeks.

Otherwise, feel free to continue taking a victory lap on something I've changed my mind on and realize that it's that exact attitude on the Internet that lead a lot of people to NOT changing their minds. Rather than being happy someone has changed their mind, it appears all some people want to do is double down and insult them for something they no longer think.

Wow all that for being wrong?

I just wanted some one else other then the normal peeps to say he is good enough.

Never wanted you to apologize or anything.

So touchy

 

[Pugger]

Peter principle
"According to the Peter Principle, every position in a given hierarchy will eventually be filled by employees who are incompetent to fulfill the job duties of their respective positions."

Gute said Buffalo approached with an offer too good to pass up. I can't find the cite for that so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Do you remember what did we get in return from Buffalo with that trade?

 

[Poppa San]

Do you remember what did we get in return from Buffalo with that trade?

Sent our fifth with him and got their 3rd. Moved up about 45 spots from day 3 to day 2.

 

[Pugger]

Sent our fifth with him and got their 3rd. Moved up about 45 spots from day 3 to day 2.

Oh, okay. Thanks. I couldn't recall.

 

[Half Empty]

...or, didn't want to recall?

 

[milani]

Do you remember what did we get in return from Buffalo with that trade?

A smaller payout....next season.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

Lafleur doesn't have the fortitude to be a HC. He might be a good OC as l9ng as he isn't calling the plays. Barry GTG. Good man terrible DC.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Wow all that for being wrong?

I just wanted some one else other then the normal peeps to say he is good enough.

Never wanted you to apologize or anything.

So touchy

I think the person constantly referencing another's point of view in a valiant attempt to continually imply "I was right" might have been a bit touchier than the person calling them out for the behavior? And why would someone apologize for incorrectly evaluating a player? I don't see many people coming out with "I'm sorry I thought AJ Dillon would be really good" or "My sincerest apologies that I thought Rasheed Walker would never be any good".

 

[longtimefan]

I think the person constantly referencing another's point of view in a valiant attempt to continually imply "I was right" might have been a bit touchier than the person calling them out for the behavior? And why would someone apologize for incorrectly evaluating a player? I don't see many people coming out with "I'm sorry I thought AJ Dillon would be really good" or "My sincerest apologies that I thought Rasheed Walker would never be any good".

Not all touchy. More like HA

Lmao

BTW? you can't speak for others and what they are thinking....

 

[adambr2]

wHo iS gOiNg tO cOoRdInAtE oUr dEfEnSe tHe rEsT oF tHe yEaR iF wE fIrE jOe bArRy nOw?

A toddler. Justin Bieber. A tackling dummy. Literally no one would be a downgrade.