Fire Drayton

[Toad]

Yes I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw the article that LaFleur was absolutely NOT going to get rid of the Special Teams Coordinator! I thought with the playoffs around the corner You will live to regret that decision. I agree that “the duffus “. NEVER should have been promoted when He was a part of the old one’s staff! How many ways can you spell STUPID!!!!! Sure hope that Matt can coach special teams too for the rest of the year. That Special Teams is pathetic!

 

[tynimiller]

Here is the one thing not firing mid-season does do - it most definitely sends a message in house that we are going to circle the wagons and go to war together. Now post the season I could see a move just like Barry for Pettine happening.

I'm not saying it is right, nor would I do it - however there is a real team message sent through the house. I just hope that message builds momentum and the faith in Drayton encourages him to change something up in response to the support....but my fear is it might just cost us at the worst time (playoffs).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here is the one thing not firing mid-season does do - it most definitely sends a message in house that we are going to circle the wagons and go to war together. Now post the season I could see a move just like Barry for Pettine happening.

I'm not saying it is right, nor would I do it - however there is a real team message sent through the house. I just hope that message builds momentum and the faith in Drayton encourages him to change something up in response to the support....but my fear is it might just cost us at the worst time (playoffs).

Yet, players get cut midseason, what does that say about playing as a team? While I can see your point, I can also see guys like Aaron Rodgers or Kenny Clark thinking to themselves "we are busting our asses out here and the special teams is doing just about everything they can to lose games for us, yet MLF and Gute are doing nothing about improving the special teams."

Maybe when you are MLF and you were the guy that made the decision to hire Drayton from within, you are too close to the fire to see just how high the flames are?

 

[Dantés]

I am one who generally defends coaches because I think they are usually just the easiest targets of fans' ire.

In this case, I've got nothing. It's terrible on multiple levels, it has been, it's not getting better. He must go.

 

[Poppa San]

Stokes is not a gunner IMO, the only reason folks would want to use him there is his speed, however he is not built for high speed collisions body wise IMO.

Is Jeff Janis in game shape? This spot was his specialty and he did well at it.

 

[OldSchool101]

Agreed, but he seemed to move too close to the ball and then he seemed to play it flat footed. When the ball bounced higher than it looks like he expected, he should have slapped it out of bounds. Like I said, MVS is not the best WR with his hands, nor his decision to let the ball play him.

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Yea. Slapping it out of play is much easier than securing it. As long as you are within about 10 feet of the sideline. That sideline can be your best friend because it stops the play immediately. Montgomery understood that principle, but it’s apparent it’s not coached.
It’s a mental game as much as it is physical. In every sport it’s important to know the nuances of various scenarios.

We pretty much all know even as fans that In baseball, which base to throw to expedite getting off the field sooner, in football at what point running the game clock becomes more important than advancing the ball or his the Endzone pylon is volatile. In basketball when to foul etc..

There’s actually parts of these games that, by having a clear understanding of the rules beforehand, you can maximize the play. Just like they do inside 5 minutes using the sideline. It’s supposed to be taught. MVS doesn’t need to be the guy on the sideline if he’s not trained to use it. That falls squarely on Drayton. I’m beginning to question if Drayton himself is unaware of the logistics, basic probability of field position, risk assessment etc…. It appears not. There’s an art to football past just securing the ball, that’s really just a fundamental thing and almost not even needed when we are in the closing minutes and winning by several scores (unless it’s an onside) You’d be better off not fielding a Punt at all in many scenarios. Let it roll! verses risking an easy - 7 points.
Particularly when our O is gouging their Defense all day. I’d rather Give up the 10-15 yards lost return and play field position.

I expect these continuous errors in HS ball, not at the Pro level. It’s going from bad to egregious. We all felt like the look on MLF’s face.

 

[tynimiller]

Yet, players get cut midseason, what does that say about playing as a team? While I can see your point, I can also see guys like Aaron Rodgers or Kenny Clark thinking to themselves "we are busting our asses out here and the special teams is doing just about everything they can to lose games for us, yet MLF and Gute are doing nothing about improving the special teams."

Maybe when you are MLF and you were the guy that made the decision to hire Drayton from within, you are too close to the fire to see just how high the flames are?

I think your last line is the issue. I think this will need to be a Gute type decision to MLF. MLF is from all historical counts and such a very loyal guy, which don't get me wrong I'd rather have that than someone who isn't at all, but it can be a fault in cases - if Gute knows this take the heat and push the button.

 

[tynimiller]

Shoot Gute could even playcate to the Rodgers narrative - "We need to capitalize on the roster we have presently to the maximum level possible and STs isn't achieving that. The window for this team to win is now, and we are not going to let a "what if we had" move be the reason we look back and hold regret"

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think your last line is the issue. I think this will need to be a Gute type decision to MLF. MLF is from all historical counts and such a very loyal guy, which don't get me wrong I'd rather have that than someone who isn't at all, but it can be a fault in cases - if Gute knows this take the heat and push the button.

For all we know, Rodgers and Drayton are best of buddies and MLF/Gute are afraid of the repercussions of firing him.

 

[tynimiller]

For all we know, Rodgers and Drayton are best of buddies and MLF/Gute are afraid of the repercussions of firing him.

This also could be the case LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yea. Slapping it out of play is much easier than securing it. As long as you are within about 10 feet of the sideline. That sideline can be your best friend because it stops the play immediately. Montgomery understood that principle, but it’s apparent it’s not coached.
It’s a mental game as much as it is physical. In every sport it’s important to know the nuances of various scenarios.

We pretty much all know even as fans that In baseball, which base to throw to expedite getting off the field sooner, in football at what point running the game clock becomes more important than advancing the ball or his the Endzone pylon is volatile. In basketball when to foul etc..

There’s actually parts of these games that, by having a clear understanding of the rules beforehand, you can maximize the play. Just like they do inside 5 minutes using the sideline. It’s supposed to be taught. MVS doesn’t need to be the guy on the sideline if he’s not trained to use it. That falls squarely on Drayton. I’m beginning to question if Drayton himself is unaware of the logistics, basic probability of field position, risk assessment etc…. It appears not. There’s an art to football past just securing the ball, that’s really just a fundamental thing and almost not even needed when we are in the closing minutes and winning by several scores (unless it’s an onside) You’d be better off not fielding a Punt at all in many scenarios. Let it roll! verses risking an easy - 7 points.
Particularly when our O is gouging their Defense all day. I’d rather Give up the 10-15 yards lost return and play field position.

I expect these continuous errors in HS ball, not at the Pro level. It’s going from bad to egregious. We all felt like the look on MLF’s face.

I will have to find the presser with Drayton, but he talks about the physical reps VS the mental reps that he tries to put players through. You can learn in practice how all these things should play out, by pretending to be in that situation, but that doesn't replace the mental aspect of actually being in it. Which Drayton said he thinks is probably more important. He also mentioned Amari and his nervousness before and at the beginning of a game. That until he is very settled in, he isn't good with the mental aspect of the game. That was apparent last night on the one punt.

 

[pacmaniac]

Everything that could go wrong on ST has gone wrong at least once this season. If I was an opponent of the Packers, I'd definitely try the one thing that hasn't been tried yet against us this season, because it would probably work - a fake FG or punt. Watch us give that up in the playoffs.

 

[OldSchool101]

There’s also the aspect of causing a disruption by firing Drayton a few games left in regular season. Perhaps it really is just a matter of studying our weaknesses and putting temporary patches in place.

The staff needs to come together and put the additional time in until it gets right. They can mitigate some of these mistakes by picking the most damaging errors and putting a flood light on it until it goes away.

E.g.,Just using directional Punts or more hang time (~10 yards less but put some air under them) can be helpful. Actually I noticed Bojo did that on one of his last punts, by kicking it out of bounds (use your strengths to control your weaknesses). I’m confident the Bojo can kick them out of bounds and still net 40

 

[Pkrjones]

IMHO the ST needs a disruption and won't be "fixed" with temporary patches. The unit hasn't been good all year and last night was a complete break down.
Anyone conceivably possible to be on ST should be involved every week in situation-meetings where lane & assignments are stressed. All WR, RB, and TE's need to know the rules on receiving punts, kicks, onside kicks, etc. so if they're thrust into a "new" situation they know the rules. This is not just a physical game, too many mental errors going on with this unit.

 

[Guacamole]

Did anyone notice if EQ was on the coverage teams? He had an excellent couple coverage team games...but did the Cobb injury change our use of him on ST by chance? I'd have to go back specifically looking on that.

go look at the video I posted in post #15, he's the one running along the sidelines out of bounds

 

[Guacamole]

- Taylor was lost after his fielding-at-the-5-yardline-out-of-bounds kick return, so too late to eliminate his gaff.
- Dafney wasn't on the punt-coverage for Grant's TD, not sure when he got injured.
- EQ was the right gunner responsible for containing the sideline that Grant raced to his TD ~ EQ gave-up contain AND got laid-out in the process of the cut-back.

show us the video of him getting laid out

 

[Pkrjones]

show us the video of him getting laid out

15 second mark, after taking a horrible angle, losing contain, AND knocking-down his own man (Summer).

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[lambeaulambo]

One thing is for certain, if MLF won't replace the coach of this unit after this, then when this unit costs the season, it will be squarely on MLF. Loyalty be damned. McCarthy showed us where that got the team.

 

[gonzozab]

I was wondering when this thread would be started.

 

[OldSchool101]

15 second mark, after taking a horrible angle, losing contain, AND knocking-down his own man (Summer).

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I’m obviously not an ST expert. But if I were I’d make sure the K does his best to cover the Sideline of the direction the Returner bounces. That’s the last line of Defense. For one he can use the sideline to push or jar him out without getting hurt. But also outside containment is key. It’s one of the hardest points of the field to cover because of the shortest distance between 2 points theorem. He has to get to that edge early, even if it’s giving up the middle. I’m not blaming Bojo, but if he makes that edge he slows down an all out sprint and by making the Returner weave back inside at which point the Returner loses both momentum and outside leverage. You’ll notice the Chicago blockers understand that leverage as they vehemently defended the lane down the sideline.

Clog the lane BEFORE the block. Imo there a 50/50 chance he gets caught by our #27 because he has to now confront #27 on his trip downfield.

In this particular play. The P needs to slow roll back a little (5-10 yards) and take the block on the HIS sideline (Bojo owns that sideline) which would’ve used 1-2 Chicago blockers against his own player by clumping the sideline lane. It’s hard for anyone to run through 3 humans and never lose a step. It’s a forced redirect. It’s like the fundamental concept Judo, you gotta use your adversaries energy against themselves.

I’ll note also that the initial problem obviously lies before that and I’ll leave that part to the experts, but that’s very noticeable to me as a missed opportunity. As long as that P prevents him from reaching the 25 it’s a Win for him. No reason for Bojo to ever be past the 45-50 yard line unless the ball gets fumbled etc..

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Add to that the fact that they haven't done anything stellar with the ball (returns for TD's on kick or punts). Forced turnovers, although I think there was 1 game we recovered a muffed punt?

The Packers have actually forced two turnovers on special teams this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Everything that could go wrong on ST has gone wrong at least once this season. If I was an opponent of the Packers, I'd definitely try the one thing that hasn't been tried yet against us this season, because it would probably work - a fake FG or punt. Watch us give that up in the playoffs.

You and I think alike, because there are many times I am thinking the same thing "here it comes, the fake and we won't be ready for it and its a sure first down". Also, even with the new onside kick rules, a surprise onside kick stands a very good chance of being successful against our special teams.

Basically, it comes down to being prepared and knowledgeable of every situation that could arise. We saw 2 glaring examples (Taylor and MVS) where neither player seemed to have a clue as to what to do in the situation that they were put in. I put that on the coaching.

The other thing to keep in mine and I don't know if this is a negative directly against Drayton, but many of these guys were playing special teams under Mennenga. How much has changed after he was fired? Doesn't appear to be much.

 

[Snoops]

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I personally know Dray he is a good dude but I can say it’s more than just him on the problems on special teams..

 

[Mondio]

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I personally know Dray he is a good dude but I can say it’s more than just him on the problems on special teams..

I don't know him personally, he does seem like a good guy, and I was wearing that same shirt on game day. Bday present from my middle child.

 

[easyk83]

We've been swapping out ST Coordinators since 2006. Perhaps the problem really is one of personnel and not coaching. I remember reading an article years ago which maintained that Ted Thompson preferred to carry less dedicated special teams players on his rosters than typical and that the unit tends to be more of a dumping ground for offensive and defensive projects. I wouldnt be surprised if Gute applies the same approach as his mentor. If we want to see improved play from that unit we will need more Oren Burks and Ty Summers types on the roster.

BTW, I bet that half the posters calling for Draytons head wanted Burks cut last off season.