Dumervile to Green Bay?

[Sky King]

Sometimes we fawn over fading players just as long as they're not Packers. We're not always so generous when it comes to our own. It's an interesting phenomenon.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I have him listed as 260lbs. Typically as players age they may pick up a little weight, either way I doubt it's too far of a stretch for Dumervil to put on 10 lbs of muscle. I imagine if Dumervil were taller he would weigh more. But if he were any heavier he'd probably lose explosion and agility.

For example J.J. Watt weighs 289, but he's also 6"5. If Dumervil were near 300lbs, he'd probably lose a decent amount of mobility. To go even further the much coveted Connor Barwin is 6"5, but he's only 260lbs himself, so a much thinner frame than Dumervil, and I believe it's safe to say that when it's all said and done Dumervil had the better career by far. Measureables don't always tell the complete tale of the tape.

There's no doubt Dumervil has been an excellent edge defender over his career but he is simply not suited to play inside at his weight. Adding another 10 pounds wouldn't make him a better fit at defensive end in a 3-4 by any means.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

On the whole, he hasn't been. But he's now 33 and coming off an injury. Most players develop durability issues as they approach their mid thirties.

FYI I overlooked Dumervil missed the entire 2010 season because of a torn pectoral muscle, my bad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

FYI I overlooked Dumervil missed the entire 2010 season because of a torn pectoral muscle, my bad.

Way to go....now he is "officially injury prone".

My feeling right now is that the Packers need veteran depth at OLB. Whether it is Dumervil or whoever, they lost Peppers and Jones and so far have drafted Biegel, who probably isn't going to be instantly ready to just step right in if (when) Perry or Matthews is injured. Thompson either has hopes to sign another vet or he thinks Elliott or Fackrell are ready to step up. That $3.5M the Rams signed 30 year old Connor Barwin for is starting to look like a bargain.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I have him listed as 260lbs. Typically as players age they may pick up a little weight, either way I doubt it's too far of a stretch for Dumervil to put on 10 lbs of muscle. I imagine if Dumervil were taller he would weigh more. But if he were any heavier he'd probably lose explosion and agility.

For example J.J. Watt weighs 289, but he's also 6"5. If Dumervil were near 300lbs, he'd probably lose a decent amount of mobility. To go even further the much coveted Connor Barwin is 6"5, but he's only 260lbs himself, so a much thinner frame than Dumervil, and I believe it's safe to say that when it's all said and done Dumervil had the better career by far. Measureables don't always tell the complete tale of the tape.

260 lbs. does not cut it. 3-4 DE amounts to a DT position.

 

[Dantés]

True, unfortunately there aren't any young edge rushers available presenting a significant upgrade over Elliott, Fackrell or Biegel at the moment.

Indeed. That would seem to be the main takeaway of this conversation. The depth on the edge is going to stand or fall on the ability of the youngsters.

 

[Dantés]

I have him listed as 260lbs. Typically as players age they may pick up a little weight, either way I doubt it's too far of a stretch for Dumervil to put on 10 lbs of muscle. I imagine if Dumervil were taller he would weigh more. But if he were any heavier he'd probably lose explosion and agility.

For example J.J. Watt weighs 289, but he's also 6"5. If Dumervil were near 300lbs, he'd probably lose a decent amount of mobility. To go even further the much coveted Connor Barwin is 6"5, but he's only 260lbs himself, so a much thinner frame than Dumervil, and I believe it's safe to say that when it's all said and done Dumervil had the better career by far. Measureables don't always tell the complete tale of the tape.

Dumervil has made a career out of being a speed rush specialist. It's not just that his frame and size is far, far from being that of a 5T, it's also his skill set.

If he players this year, regardless of whether the team that signs him run a 3-4 or a 4-3 as their base, his position is going to be as a wide aligned pass rusher on key downs.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My feeling right now is that the Packers need veteran depth at OLB. Whether it is Dumervil or whoever, they lost Peppers and Jones and so far have drafted Biegel, who probably isn't going to be instantly ready to just step right in if (when) Perry or Matthews is injured.

There's no doubt in my mind the Packers would hugely benefit from adding another veteran outside linebacker. Dwight Freeney might be the only free agent available more talented than Dumervil but he's already 37 years old.

 

[Dantés]

Not that he's an alternative to a veteran, but Johnathan Calvin's one of the more impressive UDFA's in our bunch. I won't be surprised if he pushes for a roster spot.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Elliott is solid imo. Fackrell seems to have potential too.

 

[pizzle]

We need Elvis. Badly...

 

[Mark Andrew Hooley]

If we can sign a veteran OLB then I feel we have all the pieces in place, and much stronger position groups across the board than last year. Freeney would be alright for a year, but Dumervil would be great. Just feel we're one short at the position that has little experience outside the top two pass rushers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Elliott is solid imo. Fackrell seems to have potential too.

Elliott and Fackrell both have flashed of potential but have to make an impact on a more consistent basis. I don't feel confortable about them being the primary backups at outside linebacker.

If we can sign a veteran OLB then I feel we have all the pieces in place, and much stronger position groups across the board than last year.

Unfortunately I have to disagree with this evaluation. I don't believe the Packers two biggest weaknesses entering the offseason in cornerback and outside linebacker have been adequately addressed.

While King might turn into a bona fide starter at the pro level it will most likely take him some time to develop into an impact player. I don't consider House a significant upgrade over the CBs that were on the roster last season.

The situation is even worse at edge rusher as the Packers only added Biegel while losing Peppers and Jones in free agency leaving the team with Elliott, Fackrell and the rookie as the primary backups to Matthews and Perry, who both have had trouble staying healthy.

Overall it's a huge reach to believe those position groups are much stronger than in 2016.

 

[ExpatPacker]

Elliott and Fackrell both have flashed of potential but have to make an impact on a more consistent basis. I don't feel confortable about them being the primary backups at outside linebacker.



Unfortunately I have to disagree with this evaluation. I don't believe the Packers two biggest weaknesses entering the offseason in cornerback and outside linebacker have been adequately addressed.

While King might turn into a bona fide starter at the pro level it will most likely take him some time to develop into an impact player. I don't consider House a significant upgrade over the CBs that were on the roster last season.

The situation is even worse at edge rusher as the Packers only added Biegel while losing Peppers and Jones in free agency leaving the team with Elliott, Fackrell and the rookie as the primary backups to Matthews and Perry, who both have had trouble staying healthy.

Overall it's a huge reach to believe those position groups are much stronger than in 2016.

Due to the loss of Sam Shields at the beginning of last season, I'm hoping for improved CB play this year. Just how improved is hard to say. As for the OLB/pass rush situation, i agree with you. Julius Peppers has not been replaced and it's hard to see Fackrell, Biegel, or the other 2 picking up the slack.

Biegel injured his hand on the 1st day of rookie practice...only minor is what they're saying but it reminds me of how quickly injuries can change things.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Due to the loss of Sam Shields at the beginning of last season, I'm hoping for improved CB play this year.

In my opinion King having an immediate impact is the only chance for a significantly improved performance out of the cornerbacks this season. The rest of the players on the depth chart continue to lack talent to be capable of covering opposing top receivers.

 

[Mark Andrew Hooley]

Elliott and Fackrell both have flashed of potential but have to make an impact on a more consistent basis. I don't feel confortable about them being the primary backups at outside linebacker.



Unfortunately I have to disagree with this evaluation. I don't believe the Packers two biggest weaknesses entering the offseason in cornerback and outside linebacker have been adequately addressed.

While King might turn into a bona fide starter at the pro level it will most likely take him some time to develop into an impact player. I don't consider House a significant upgrade over the CBs that were on the roster last season.

The situation is even worse at edge rusher as the Packers only added Biegel while losing Peppers and Jones in free agency leaving the team with Elliott, Fackrell and the rookie as the primary backups to Matthews and Perry, who both have had trouble staying healthy.

Overall it's a huge reach to believe those position groups are much stronger than in 2016.

Well I have to disagree with your retort. You said we lost Peppers and Jones. Let's not forget that Peppers was a situational guy last year, whereas Fackrell and Biegel won't be. Adams will also help the pass rush. I also said IF we sign a veteran. That vet could then replace Peppers role. So then we are talking about replacing Datone Jones production with Biegel plus continued improvement from Fackrell and Elliot. I don't think that's a stretch at all.
As for the cornerback group, Randall and Rollins will be healthy. That's an instant upgrade. Gunter gained a lot of experience last year which will help him this year as he goes against non number 1 receivers. King is clearly Shields replacement. Shields played in one game last year and thus King's production this year will far outweigh one game from Shields. Josh Jones and House can easy replace Hydes production and add further stability to the group. I think what's a reach is saying these groups haven't or won't improve.

 

[sschind]

Just to clarify, the Bleacher Report article didn't mention anything about the Packers not having shown any interest in Dumervil. That information was added by Brian Jones of 247sports.

Of course Bleacher Report did not mention it. That would have been the responsible and accurate thing to do. That's not something they are exactly famous for.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well I have to disagree with your retort. You said we lost Peppers and Jones. Let's not forget that Peppers was a situational guy last year, whereas Fackrell and Biegel won't be. Adams will also help the pass rush. I also said IF we sign a veteran. That vet could then replace Peppers role. So then we are talking about replacing Datone Jones production with Biegel plus continued improvement from Fackrell and Elliot. I don't think that's a stretch at all.

Peppers still played 56.9% of the defensive snaps last season registering 7.5 sacks. With Matthews and Perry being pencilled in as the starters at outside linebacker Elliott, Fackrell and Biegel will most likely being situational players at best. Don't forget that you're talking about replacing a future Hall of Famer though therefore I have a hard time believing that's an upgrade. While Jones didn't record a lot of sacks he created consistent pressure on opposing quarterbacks, something his replacements have yet to show. Not an upgrade either.

As for the cornerback group, Randall and Rollins will be healthy. That's an instant upgrade. Gunter gained a lot of experience last year which will help him this year as he goes against non number 1 receivers. King is clearly Shields replacement. Shields played in one game last year and thus King's production this year will far outweigh one game from Shields. Josh Jones and House can easy replace Hydes production and add further stability to the group. I think what's a reach is saying these groups haven't or won't improve.

There's a lot of uncertainty surrounding the cornerback position entering next season. It's possible that Randall and Rollins significantly improve but as both struggled while healthy as well that is far from a given. There's no doubt King was drafted to replace Shields as the team's #1 CB but it will all but guaranteed take him some time to develop into a bona fide starter. House is a perimeter CB and therefore not suited to replace Hyde's production by any means and Jones isn't a CB at all. There's hope the position will be improved next season but it's far from a given.

Overall I stand by my evaluation that you mentioning both the OLB and CB positions are much stronger than last season is a huge reach.

 

[thequick12]

don't think Summerville would be a significant upgrade over Elliot. I expect Elliot to break out similarly to Desmond bishop now that he will get an opportunity for consistent playing time. he's a playmaker and I expect somewhere around 5 sacks from him. in addition I think fackrell can be expected to have around 5 sacks as well. which essentially replaces the production of peppers and Jones

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Sometimes we fawn over fading players just as long as they're not Packers. We're not always so generous when it comes to our own. It's an interesting phenomenon.

Great point. When we think of 'name' players on some other team, the first thought that comes to mind is their highlight reel. Once the become Packers, all the warts come into focus.

 

[PikeBadger]

Great point. When we think of 'name' players on some other team, the first thought that comes to mind is their highlight reel. Once the become Packers, all the warts come into focus.

Absolutely. I think some GM's even fall prey to that as well. FA's are available for a reason. It's important to figure out why they haven't been re-signed by their former team.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Absolutely. I think some GM's even fall prey to that as well. FA's are available for a reason. It's important to figure out why they haven't been re-signed by their former team.

There are various reasons for players becoming free agents. A team deciding not to bring back a specific player doesn't automatically mean he can't perform at a high level.

 

[OldSchool101]

I actually believed we would sign an OLB/edge rusher before the Corner position. While neither Julius or Datone were overly impressive last year, we still lost 2 veteran pass rushers both drafted in the 1st round. My guess is that we went after CB, not because we didn't need another formidable early round pass rusher direly, but because we had to make a sacrifice between the 2 positions and CB was our glaring weakness in 2016.
We could use a low cost, short term (2 year) veteran signing like this that would allow our rookies and 2nd Year players to get some seasoning.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I actually believed we would sign an OLB/edge rusher before the Corner position. While neither Julius or Datone were overly impressive last year, we still lost 2 veteran pass rushers both drafted in the 1st round. My guess is that we went after CB, not because we didn't need another formidable early round pass rusher direly, but because we had to make a sacrifice between the 2 positions and CB was our glaring weakness in 2016.
We could use a low cost, short term (2 year) veteran signing like this that would allow our rookies and 2nd Year players to get some seasoning.

Thompson should have addressed the outside linebacker position in free agency as well. There are still some decent veteran players available though, maybe the Packers add another one before the start of the season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I actually believed we would sign an OLB/edge rusher before the Corner position. While neither Julius or Datone were overly impressive last year, we still lost 2 veteran pass rushers both drafted in the 1st round. My guess is that we went after CB, not because we didn't need another formidable early round pass rusher direly, but because we had to make a sacrifice between the 2 positions and CB was our glaring weakness in 2016.
We could use a low cost, short term (2 year) veteran signing like this that would allow our rookies and 2nd Year players to get some seasoning.

That aspect of the off season has been surprising thus far to me as well. With the departure of Peppers and Jones, the so so play of Clay and the not always able to stay on the field due to injuries of both Matthews and Perry, a veteran backup seemed like a no brainer. TT must think that his current backups along with Biegel will suffice. Risky if you ask me, especially considering what we saw on the field in 2016 from the current group still on the team.

Had TT not been able to resign Perry, would he have signed a top OLB or just let the position fix itself from within?