Brian Gutekunst new Packers GM

[G0P4ckG0]

But I thought Cobb and Rodgers were really good friends?

Pro tip....."really good friends" in a business is a recipe for disaster if the main reason you are together is due to friendship. In such instances it is very difficult to hold one another accountable for all actions. The most successful team is one who gives and demands respect to every member but refrains from being friends with any member.

*personal experience*

 

[jetfixer]

Are we going to be able to capture any of the Martellus contract this year? That would sure come in handy being he left so early into his contract.

Overthecap says he is 4.2 mil of dead money.....I guess we owe him that and it’s in our cap number.

 

[longtimefan]

All three reporting directly to Murphy. That gives me the woobies a bit.

What if Mike was worried new Gm. Could fire him? Maybe this was a deal to appease Mike?

Just a theory, because Mike did have input on the hiring

 

[AmishMafia]

So, Amish, what specifically was he responsible for in his time as a scout? If not having some responsibility for the picks out of that region, then what? If you want to say, "I dunno, it's a mystery", I'm perfectly fine with that. Or if you want to say, "Murphy's confident and I'm fine with that," that's OK too, though I would observe that if Murphy was such an insightful man in matters of the football operation then we wouldn't have had this mess to start with.

Well, I would expect that he would have reviewed the tape of the upper portion of the board. I would expect him to at least make the trip to the Combine, Pro Days of some of the candidates. and maybe the college all star games. I would also expect him to take seriously the reports and grades of his area scouts for all potential picks as a check on his own evaluation. He cannot personally evaluate the thousands of players coming out of college. And for the bottom half of the board, the initial UDFA group, and the PS guys who flow in and out during the year, he must rely heavily on scouting evaluations. Otherwise, why have area scouts at all? He can do everything and be everywhere!

I do agree with all if this. What I simply should have a said, it was not his decision to draft the player, so we don't know what his thoughts were on any individual players. There has got to be incidents where TT, a coach, or another scout was more impressed with a player than the area scout.

 

[Half Empty]

Packers apparently have taken the steps to recover the 4.2 - https://www.bing.com/search?q=marte...CAEC7E79F14C9AABAE5E9877DDAC06&FORM=QBLH&sp=1

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packers apparently have taken the steps to recover the 4.2 - https://www.bing.com/search?q=marte...CAEC7E79F14C9AABAE5E9877DDAC06&FORM=QBLH&sp=1

A more direct link....

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/pat...lect-portion-martellus-bennetts-signing-bonus

From what I have read, the "good" news with Bennett is that the Packers released him in time to hopefully improve the compensatory picks that they receive. Which probably means one of the picks will be a 5th instead of a 6th.

"A third-rounder (for T.J. Lang), a fifth-round rounder (for J.C. Tretter) and two sixth-rounders (for Jared Cook and Eddie Lacy). Now, with Bennett out of the equation, the picks change: No longer is Micah Hyde’s departure to Buffalo canceled out, giving the Packers an extra fifth-rounder."

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...t-improve-packers-compensatory-picks-in-2018/

 

[Dantés]

So the Packers stand to draft:

1.
2.
3.
3.
4.
5.
5.
6.
6.
7.

That's especially nice given that you can now trade comp. picks.

 

[rodell330]

I want Trumaine Johnson.

God, imagine if we signed Bouye.

Lol and pass on Davon House?!! Hahahaha

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So the Packers stand to draft:

1.
2.
3.
3.
4.
5.
5.
6.
6.
7.

That's especially nice given that you can now trade comp. picks.

Yes please, on the trading of some of the picks. I'm really hoping that at the end of the draft, we don't see a name next to each one of those numbers. 11 drafted rookies is not what the Packers need IMO.

 

[SoonerPack]

The Patriots have definitely structured Brady's contract in a smart way for quite some time but that doesn't mean he relinquished any money to make it work.

That seems to be contrary to the couple different articles I've read but who knows? I am much more into the on-field product and not nearly as dialed in on the finance side of the game so will default to you. We both agree it would be awfully sweet if AR took a touch less to allow Gute to reload the roster.

 

[Dantés]

Yes please, on the trading of some of the picks. I'm really hoping that at the end of the draft, we don't see a name next to each one of those numbers. 11 drafted rookies is not what the Packers need IMO.

Edge rusher is an area of particular need where the money that the Packers already have tied up in Matthews and Perry make a rookie more sensible than another veteran, in my opinion. I would not be sorry to see them move up for a good one. Nor would I mind a move to secure a developmental QB.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I do agree with all if this. What I simply should have a said, it was not his decision to draft the player, so we don't know what his thoughts were on any individual players. There has got to be incidents where TT, a coach, or another scout was more impressed with a player than the area scout.

That's why I said back at post #203: "Now, we don't know what other players Gutekunst might banged the table for that were not picked, we don't know which of these picks where he might have been lukewarm and they were picked anyway...."

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Edge rusher is an area of particular need where the money that the Packers already have tied up in Matthews and Perry make a rookie more sensible than another veteran, in my opinion. I would not be sorry to see them move up for a good one. Nor would I mind a move to secure a developmental QB.

Develop for what purpose?

 

[RRyder]

A more direct link....

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/pat...lect-portion-martellus-bennetts-signing-bonus

From what I have read, the "good" news with Bennett is that the Packers released him in time to hopefully improve the compensatory picks that they receive. Which probably means one of the picks will be a 5th instead of a 6th.

"A third-rounder (for T.J. Lang), a fifth-round rounder (for J.C. Tretter) and two sixth-rounders (for Jared Cook and Eddie Lacy). Now, with Bennett out of the equation, the picks change: No longer is Micah Hyde’s departure to Buffalo canceled out, giving the Packers an extra fifth-rounder."

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...t-improve-packers-compensatory-picks-in-2018/

Only a 5th rounder for Hyde? I know nobody knows the exact formula the league uses but Hyde signed a pretty big contract, was a starter and made the Pro Bowl. Not sure how we get comped less then a 4th for him

 

[HardRightEdge]

Overthecap says he is 4.2 mil of dead money.....I guess we owe him that and it’s in our cap number.

As an FYI, signing bonuses are what they sound like: cash money up front in the form of a check with the necessary tax and other deductions. Checks are typically cut at signin or withing a few days.

When Adams and Linsley signed those contracts on 12/30, you can assume checks were cut that day to book in 2017.

I mention this because in the Bennett situation, it's a matter of clawing back cash money already paid, not withholding money due. And if you don't claw back the cash, you don't claw back the cap space.

The onus is on the Packers to make their case. That's harder than if the money was withheld and Bennett had to make his case to get the payment.

 

[Dantés]

Develop for what purpose?

Near term backup, long term starter.

 

[PackAttack12]

Near term backup, long term starter.

I just feel like it's entirely too early to allocate resources on a future quarterback when Rodgers is only 33 and has repeatedly expressed the desire to play until he's over 40 years of age.

Brady and Brees are/have competed well in their upper 30s. Too many areas of concern for this current roster to be concerned about who Rodgers' successor will be. JMO.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Only a 5th rounder for Hyde? I know nobody knows the exact formula the league uses but Hyde signed a pretty big contract, was a starter and made the Pro Bowl. Not sure how we get comped less then a 4th for him

It may seem like Hyde signed a big contract, but not really in the great scheme of things. It was 5 years for $30.5 mil with $14 mil in guarantees. The $6 mil per year ranks 18th. in the league among safeties, and safeties are not paid what you see at other positions. $6 mil per year would be 37th. ranked for edge rushers, 27th. ranked for WRs.

The contracts seem to get overwhelming weight. 5th. round might be about right. Maybe, and that's a maybe, there might be a bump to 4th. on performance but I would not count on it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Near term backup, long term starter.

The problem with that IMO is the timing and it all centers around trying to predict when AR will hang it up. From everything we hear, even from Rodgers himself, that time isn't in the next 3-5 years.

So the questions I would ask in regards to drafting a QB this year would be.

1. When will he be ready to be a quality #2 backup?
2. Are you ready to carry 3 QB's on the roster until such time?
3. When does he gain valuable playing experience, which it seems Hundley lacked?
4. If Rodgers is still playing and playing well in 4 years, what do you do with this drafted QB?

Obviously, you don't wait for Rodgers to retire to start looking for his replacement, but IMO, that "acquisition" should take place 2-3 years ahead of Rodgers eventual retirement. Otherwise, all you have is a roster spot being filled with a player that may end up never playing a meaningful snap as a Packer.

 

[Dantés]

The problem with that IMO is the timing and it all centers around trying to predict when AR will hang it up. From everything we hear, even from Rodgers himself, that time isn't in the next 3-5 years.

So the questions I would ask in regards to drafting a QB this year would be.

1. When will he be ready to be a quality #2 backup?
2. Are you ready to carry 3 QB's on the roster until such time?
3. When does he gain valuable playing experience, which it seems Hundley lacked?
4. If Rodgers is still playing and playing well in 4 years, what do you do with this drafted QB?

Obviously, you don't wait for Rodgers to retire to start looking for his replacement, but IMO, that "acquisition" should take place 2-3 years ahead of Rodgers eventual retirement. Otherwise, all you have is a roster spot being filled with a player that may end up never playing a meaningless snap as a Packer.

Yes, those are good points, and if the FO internally believes that Rodgers has plenty of time left they should wait or at least take one later than what I was suggesting. But I do think we're entering a phase where 3 QB's on the roster might be more common. It's time to start taking shots on young guys, but you don't want the backup to be an unknown.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes, those are good points, and if the FO internally believes that Rodgers has plenty of time left they should wait or at least take one later than what I was suggesting. But I do think we're entering a phase where 3 QB's on the roster might be more common. It's time to start taking shots on young guys, but you don't want the backup to be an unknown.

Personally, I would rather see the Packers use the later round picks to take flyers on O-lineman. Sure once in awhile a team will find a Tom Brady in the 6th round, but the Packers have done pretty good with getting a lot of mileage out of late round and UDFA O-lineman.

 

[OldSchool101]

But I thought Cobb and Rodgers were really good friends?

This was also a concern of mine, I believe he was in his wedding. There are some tough choices on many levels

 

[HardRightEdge]

Near term backup, long term starter.

By "long term starter" I'd assume you're talking about an upper round pick. If you're talking about taking a flyer on a mid-rounder, well, alright, why not. But if the guy shows anything in preseason you're probably going to have to give up a roster spot to keep him.

Assuming Rodgers is 100%, which probably nobody will know until at least OTAs or maybe into camp, after the draft, it's a a year or two too soon. The guy's contract would be up when Rodgers is at age 38 with possibly a mountain of dead cap on his extended deal if the Captain has his way.

Anyway, the firing of Van Pelt would suggest the organizational assessment is Hundley was under coached. It does not take much tea leaf reading to think they'll stick with him for another year or two.

 

[GleefulGary]

By "long term starter" I'd assume you're talking about an upper round pick. If you're talking about taking a flyer on a mid-rounder, well, alright, why not. But if the guy shows anything in preseason you're probably going to have to give up a roster spot to keep him.

Assuming Rodgers is 100%, which probably nobody will know until at least OTAs or maybe into camp, after the draft, it's a a year or two too soon. The guy's contract would be up when Rodgers is at age 38 with possibly a mountain of dead cap on his extended deal if the Captain has his way.

Anyway, the firing of Van Pelt would suggest the organizational assessment is Hundley was under coached. It does not take much tea leaf reading to think they'll stick with him for another year or two.

Van Pelt wasn't fired.

It was agreed BEFORE the season started that he didn't want his contract renewed so he could look for work elsewhere.

 

[Half Empty]

It may seem like Hyde signed a big contract, but not really in the great scheme of things. It was 5 years for $30.5 mil with $14 mil in guarantees. The $6 mil per year ranks 18th. in the league among safeties, and safeties are not paid what you see at other positions. $6 mil per year would be 37th. ranked for edge rushers, 27th. ranked for WRs.

The contracts seem to get overwhelming weight. 5th. round might be about right. Maybe, and that's a maybe, there might be a bump to 4th. on performance but I would not count on it.

Another example of what one can do with numbers. I checked Sportrac, and the $6 mil average was 6th or 7th. Then, I realized that was strong safeties, and you were looking at overall safeties and correct, there. Then the question becomes do the comp picks get made on the basis of all or strong? I'm sure they differentiate between LT and RT, ILB and OLB, et. al., so, I wonder how they do it for DBs (slot corner versus outside corner?). My head is starting to hurt too much to continue.